How to Join
the Fashion Spot / All Things Vintage / History of Style : a remembrance of things past
FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Rules Links Mobile How to Join
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
22-03-2005
  136
V.I.P.
 
travolta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: New York City
Gender: femme
Posts: 3,595
Quote:
Originally Posted by kit
I think that is why I disliked Tom Ford so much .

There is NO cocept behind his ' creations ' , save that of figure - hugging sexual exhibition - the total antithesis of the Japanese and the Belgians .
i agree kit! tom is very shallow--but he definately changed fashion. we are still reeling from it!

__________________
"the way a problem is set up often suggests the resolution."
http://michelleboxgirl.blogspot.com/
  Reply With Quote
 
22-03-2005
  137
flaunt the imperfection..
 
softgrey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: downtown...
Gender: femme
Posts: 50,643
well...to be fair kit...not many designers have some greater motivation other than
1-making pretty dresses
2-getting rich and famous

this is what sets these great designers apart from the mainstream...they are so much more...they challenge themselves and others with their exploration of bigger ideas...

they often ENGAGE the INTELLECT as well as the senses......
now that's what i call SEXY...!!!..

__________________
"It is not money that makes you well dressed: it is understanding."
ChristianDior




Last edited by softgrey; 22-03-2005 at 02:03 PM.
  Reply With Quote
22-03-2005
  138
kit
tfs star
 
kit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Stalybridge , Gr.Manchester , North UK .
Gender: homme
Posts: 1,521
Quote:
Originally Posted by softgrey
well...to be fair kit...not many designers have some greater motivation other than
1-making pretty dresses
2-getting rich and famous

this is what sets these great designers apart from the mainstream...they are so much more...they challenge themselves and others with their exploration of bigger ideas...

they often ENGAGE the INTELLECT as well as the senses......
now that's what i call SEXY...!!!..
Agreed .

Perhaps we ARE too cerebral .

  Reply With Quote
22-03-2005
  139
flaunt the imperfection..
 
softgrey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: downtown...
Gender: femme
Posts: 50,643
what?!?!...no such thing.......
...

__________________
"It is not money that makes you well dressed: it is understanding."
ChristianDior



  Reply With Quote
22-03-2005
  140
Swim Upstream
 
helena's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: europe
Gender: femme
Posts: 6,460
Quote:
Originally Posted by softgrey
this is what sets these great designers apart from the mainstream...they are so much more...they challenge themselves and others with their exploration of bigger ideas...

they often ENGAGE the INTELLECT as well as the senses......
now that's what i call SEXY...!!!..
agreed - that is sexy. But most people don't think thats sexy. Most people don't engage their brains in order to THINK about whats beneath the surface....they just see Ford-ian flesh & f**k me now clothes (pardon my french).

I don't really know that much about the nature of the Belgian movement - I'd like to know more...to me, now, Dries & Margiela & Demeulmeester all seem really different. How were/are they 'connected' aesthetically?

  Reply With Quote
22-03-2005
  141
fashion icon
 
Mutterlein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Gender: femme
Posts: 3,371
Quote:
Originally Posted by softgrey
...that is a whole other discussion which we've had here before and seem to keeep having...there are varying opinions on whether fashion is or can be art...

apparently issey thinks of what he does as art...
don't know about yohji or rei...i don't think they do really...i think rei is too practical for that and yohji is too modest...
I think Issey likes the idea that his work is considered to be art. But I think the way he regards himself as an artist is in a very conceptual way. I mean that his true artistic expression is not completely in the clothes but in the ideas behind them. He really does have this amazing dream about people coming together in harmony and making their lives better and easier. He celebrates youth, life, and people. He tries to achieve this through clothes. His clothing designs and his industrial research can be seen as effects of his artistic pursuits that by relationship have become art. Even the scientific engineering research he carries on is in a way art.

For Issey the clothes or the object are not the actual works of art, the real ART is how people interact with it, how it makes them feel emotionally and physically. It is a verb not a noun. This is at least what I gathered from when I talked to him and what he said about his own work. I am not sure if he considers himself an artist. I know he never earnestly considered himself a fashion designer...that he said himself. He seemed to have some resentment towards the industry and was relieved to be free of it. Issey said fashion was just a podium to make what he felt he needed to make. When asked during the group dicussion with him whether he was a fashion designer, industrial designer, or an artist he replied: "I just make things"

I think perhaps that if you asked Yohji and Rei the same question they would have a similar answer.

  Reply With Quote
22-03-2005
  142
flaunt the imperfection..
 
softgrey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: downtown...
Gender: femme
Posts: 50,643
i said that to someone who asked if i was an artist once...
no...i said...i just make things...

the reply?...
'that's what an artist does'...

something to think about...

__________________
"It is not money that makes you well dressed: it is understanding."
ChristianDior



  Reply With Quote
22-03-2005
  143
flaunt the imperfection..
 
softgrey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: downtown...
Gender: femme
Posts: 50,643
Quote:
Originally Posted by helena

I don't really know that much about the nature of the Belgian movement - I'd like to know more...to me, now, Dries & Margiela & Demeulmeester all seem really different. How were/are they 'connected' aesthetically?

we need to start a thread on the belgians...!!
this is becoming quite clear... ...

...i can say from experience that after having visited antwerp...it made some sense...just from the feel of the place...

i can speak about it from an historical point of view and where they fit into the big picture...but that's where i would stop...i tend to prefer not to know too much about a designer's personal history...i would rather let the clothes speak for themselves...so i relate to designers based on their collections rather than their personal lives...i'm only just finding out most things about the japanese avante garde right now...even though i've followed them for years...so most of my knowledge is from direct experience and personal observation...

i am definitley not the expert here...i am extremely familiar with the clothes and the collections...but i haven't read as much as some others here...i know faust and maybe scott have books on belgian fashion...
maybe one of them will start a thread and shed some light...or at least recommend some reading material...

__________________
"It is not money that makes you well dressed: it is understanding."
ChristianDior



  Reply With Quote
22-03-2005
  144
arndom
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Hanoi, Vietnam
Gender: homme
Posts: 2,580
I think you are right about the artism behind making clothes. The ideas, concepts that lead to the clothes are truly inventive. They are questioning the ideas of genders, beauty, the body... and some times the way one sees the world. I think the Japanese really make clothes that never have been made before. Clothes made from ideas that are not connected with, well, clothing.

I don't know much recent works of Miyake and Yamamoto. From what I have seen, I think Rei Kawakubo is the only one who still experiments with her aesthetics. I think that she is the one who still moving forwards.

I'd not say that she is pratical. I think she is the one who always looks and goes one step further. In doing bussiness, too. Look at the way she builds her stores, making new lines, radical perfumes, colaboration with Corso Como in Tokyo, Guerrillas and the latest Dover Market. Who in the fashion bussiness does more projects than she does. Comme is a very very strong and energetic company:-)


Last edited by nqth; 22-03-2005 at 05:33 PM.
  Reply With Quote
22-03-2005
  145
fashion icon
 
Mutterlein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Gender: femme
Posts: 3,371
Quote:
Originally Posted by softgrey
i said that to someone who asked if i was an artist once...
no...i said...i just make things...

the reply?...
'that's what an artist does'...

something to think about...
engineers, industrial designers, and carpenters also make things as well.

  Reply With Quote
22-03-2005
  146
flaunt the imperfection..
 
softgrey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: downtown...
Gender: femme
Posts: 50,643
what's your point mutterlein?...

...

__________________
"It is not money that makes you well dressed: it is understanding."
ChristianDior



  Reply With Quote
22-03-2005
  147
fashion icon
 
Mutterlein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Gender: femme
Posts: 3,371
Quote:
Originally Posted by softgrey
what's your point mutterlein?...

...
my point was that the person who responded to you may have been correct in saying "that is what an artist does" but it still does not mean one is actually an artist. When you or Issey say "I make things" to me it implies that what you make is more than art. It's more the design, or its more than whatever exactly it is being made. I don't like being termed an artist even though that is what I am studying to be. I'd like to think that what I make isn't just art and can't be organized in that way.

  Reply With Quote
22-03-2005
  148
flaunt the imperfection..
 
softgrey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: downtown...
Gender: femme
Posts: 50,643
well...what i make can't be termed anything else......
and i've come to terms with the term......
doesn't mean i'm any good...but it is true...

__________________
"It is not money that makes you well dressed: it is understanding."
ChristianDior



  Reply With Quote
22-03-2005
  149
fashion icon
 
Mutterlein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Gender: femme
Posts: 3,371
Quote:
Originally Posted by softgrey
well...what i make can't be termed anything else......
and i've come to terms with the term......
doesn't mean i'm any good...but it is true...
we should just make up our own word!

  Reply With Quote
22-03-2005
  150
V.I.P.
 
travolta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: New York City
Gender: femme
Posts: 3,595
ok this is slightly off topic...but since we are talking about the nature of an artist here's a quote by bob dylan:

"My father, who was plain speaking and straight talking said, 'Isn't an artist a fellow who paints?' when told by one of my teachers that his son had the nature of an artist. It seemed I'd always been chasing after something, anything that might lead me into some more lit place, some unknown land downriver. I had not the vaguest notion of the broken world I was living in, what society could do with you."

something to think about

__________________
"the way a problem is set up often suggests the resolution."
http://michelleboxgirl.blogspot.com/
  Reply With Quote
Reply
Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Tags
1970s1990s, avantgarde, japanese
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

monitoring_string = "058526dd2635cb6818386bfd373b82a4"


 
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:47 AM.
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
TheFashionSpot.com is a property of TotallyHer Media, LLC, an Evolve Media LLC company. 2014 All rights reserved.