Admit It. You Love It. It Matters.(NYT) - fashion as a culturally potent force - Page 3

PrettyInPinkO21 · 03-09-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by kuba01

I agree with the article when it says that often people are ashamed to say that they follow fashion or believe in it as a true art form.

I can't relate to people that are like "its just CLOTHES..." - I think it's so much more than that. It is the most visible means of individual expression for one, and it can truly make a person feel happy.

Are people really ashamed to say they follow fashion? How about anyone in this thread? Are you embarassed to admit it?

And to all of the people who called me ignorant:
I have studied fashion and communications in 8 countries and I have visited even more. I have met people from all walks of life and I speak 3 languages. I've fed and cared for the poor and taught college students in Italy English for 10 months... and I turned 19 only weeks ago. NEVER call me ignorant.

nqth · 03-09-2007

^ it doesn't really matter what you do darling. It's how you dress!

Just joking:-P

softgrey · 03-09-2007

pink...

let's stay on topic please...
we never asked for your resume...

softgrey · 03-09-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madhuri

Playing devil's advocate, aren't people who intellectualize fashion trying harder than the people who wear clothes because they're pretty and makes them feel good? Is there something inherently wrong with a person saying "I like that dress, I think I'll look good in it, therefore I'll wear it?" Is it any less ludricrous to attempt to convey a deep statement about oneself through various pieces of fabric than it is to simply acknowledge that surface appearances matter more to someone than pyschology? If we treat fashion as an artistic or intellectual endeavor why should everyone be expected to have an advanced knowledge or interest in fashion? Not everyone is interested in painting, footbal, math..etc. Do we look down on those people in society?

what i say is that the people who are only interested in the superficial are only interested in clothes...
which is perfectly fine and dandy...for them...

FASHION...with a capital F..is something else altogether...
it's the difference between W mag and Lucky...
night and day...

i don't think art or creativity is pretentious...
i think people who don't understand it call it that...

and likewise...
i do not expect that everyone is born with talent or creativity...
so i don't think it is possible for everyone to have 'style'..and make a statement with their wardrobe...
actually...
i know it isn't...from experience..
and from all the people who ask me to help them dress themselves...
even people in the industry...

...

however... i repeat...

Quote:

i do think that every single person working in the world of fashion really thinks deep down in their hearts...'it's just clothes'...

kuba01 · 03-09-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrettyInPinkO21

Are people really ashamed to say they follow fashion? How about anyone in this thread? Are you embarassed to admit it?

Well sort of. When people ask me what my hobbies are, or what I do in my spare time - they expect an answer along the lines of "I play basketball or I play tennis, or I play piano". When somebody says "I'm interested in fashion" - people frown upon that. They're like "ohhhh....but what are your HOBBIES/INTERESTS?".

What I'm saying is that fashion is generally viewed as something that people only think about when they dress up and go out, or when they shop - its not something that society views as a respectable interest.

Saying that you love fashion, has a lot of stigma to it because people just won't respect you. That's society for you

Sorry about my rant, but does anyone get it?!

misssakura · 03-09-2007

I think a lot of people are afraid, or ashamed to admit that wearing nice clothes that suit them can make the difference between feeling "okay" and "great". It's somewhat of an illogical thing. Why does a piece of fabric over our naked forms make us feel better? Perhaps an uncultured reference but 'What not to wear' always proved this point, they'd take a woman who felt useless and ugly, put some new clothes on her and instantly it would change her attitudes. I suppose people are afraid of the 'superficial' fix, apart from a money issue, wearing clothes isn't exactly an intellectual achievement. The same as getting a haircut or a manicure.

At the end of the day sometimes I pause and think how odd it is that I'm wearing clothes at all instead of parading around naked. Then I see an Oscar de la Renta and forget everything. Wearable art that boosts confidence? I'm in!

Bel · 03-09-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanka

ew... I really pity those people who think fashion is stupid and superficial and not worth paying attention too. People sometimes don't realized just how powerful clothes are and how you can improve your personal life and professional impact just by changing the way you dress in a right way.

Pity is a good word. It usually makes me feel angry. I wish I could train myself to just feel pity, it seems healthier.

softgrey · 03-09-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by misssakura

I think a lot of people are afraid, or ashamed to admit that wearing nice clothes that suit them can make the difference between feeling "okay" and "great". It's somewhat of an illogical thing. Why does a piece of fabric over our naked forms make us feel better? Perhaps an uncultured reference but 'What not to wear' always proved this point, they'd take a woman who felt useless and ugly, put some new clothes on her and instantly it would change her attitudes. I suppose people are afraid of the 'superficial' fix, apart from a money issue, wearing clothes isn't exactly an intellectual achievement. The same as getting a haircut or a manicure.

At the end of the day sometimes I pause and think how odd it is that I'm wearing clothes at all instead of parading around naked. Then I see an Oscar de la Renta and forget everything. Wearable art that boosts confidence? I'm in!

that's only a fair comparison if you wear an outfit exactly as it is shown on a runway or mannequin or magazine...because then you are 'just putting on clothes'...

but if you put any thought into it and select each item carefully with some reason ..then it is nothing like getting a haircut or manicure...
because it is not a passive endeavour but a proactive/expressive one...

it is THEN that it becomes culturally relevant and becomes 'FASHION'...
rather than just clothes...

Spike413 · 03-09-2007

I'm definitely enjoying some of the arguments being presented here...and some have definitly made me think.

My thoughts on the intellectual/superficial; I think that's what the real beauty in fashion (not expensive clothes as softgrey pointed out) is. It can begin as something cerebral or intellectual and ultimately becomes something sensual, which in turn can become intellectual in an entirely new way.

I hope that makes sense to someone other then me.

softgrey · 03-09-2007

Quote:

I hope that makes sense to someone other then me.

..
it does...

Quote:

It can begin as something cerebral or intellectual and ultimately becomes something sensual, which in turn can become intellectual in an entirely new way.

this is a tremendously insightful comment...
very cool spike...

*i put on my tom ford shades for you dear...

lesypersound · 03-09-2007

i have a lot of respect for style over trend or fashion. one-ups and flashing status is really superficial and what i think puritan sensibilities are against (vanity, consumerism). dressing intelligently is style imo.
i'm not too sure how i feel about the conclusion. i do not think that fashion causes the synergistic effect of class, beauty, art, and money. i think money attracts those things first and foremost... then fashion/trend is used to signal status--especially with a lot of the stuff talked about on these boards. still--i respect the acquired knowledge and art of styling and fashion. :]

wheneveriwakeup · 03-09-2007

Beautiful words, Spike!

The confusion lies exactly there - 'fashion' is much more than putting on clothes as they 'should be' or copying the 'essence' of your favorite designer. It also boils down to the person wearing the clothes. As softgrey said, some people have the ability to reek of style, sensuality, and coolnesss no matter what they're wearing. 'Style' (I use the term loosely here, btw) has always been determined by who you're wearing, how current the item is, and of course, the pricetag that accompanied it. It is even more evident as time passes by and celebrities continue to reign supreme. Though as with everything, that powerful inkling of rebellion bubbles underneath. The rebellion spells choice. I don't agree with the 'pretty dress' notion, either. Obvious beauty, in any form, is always lovely to behold but I feel that people have so much more to offer than being asethetically pleasing in the most basic and surface sense, esp. since like a pretty face, a pretty dress is a dime-a-dozen these days. You might as well be a bonafide dressmaker as far as I'm concerned.

gius · 03-09-2007

i think taking care how to dress is good...
and so is design...
both is part of fashion, no?
i find some kind of joy if i see something made in an un-usual way

i've never met anyone who looked down on me if i said i was into fashion
i never say i'm into it though
they just see it if they meet me or live with me
i think everyone likes fashion one way or another

gius · 03-09-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheneveriwakeup

As softgrey said, some people have the ability to reek of style, sensuality, and coolnesss no matter what they're wearing.

i think this only works if the person's face is 'right' for the look

softgrey · 03-09-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by gius

i think everyone likes fashion one way or another

i think everyone likes 'pretty things'...

but fashion is often ugly...and many people don't like that...

comme des garcons, martin margiela and the like are good examples of this...

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03-09-2007	32
nqth arndom Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Hanoi, Vietnam Gender: homme Posts: 2,581	^ it doesn't really matter what you do darling. It's how you dress! Just joking:-P __________________ http://ilovesorbet.blogspot.com/: hanoi street style.

03-09-2007	33
softgrey flaunt the imperfection.. Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: downtown... Gender: femme Posts: 49,972	pink... let's stay on topic please... we never asked for your resume... __________________ "It is not money that makes you well dressed: it is understanding." ChristianDior Last edited by softgrey; 03-09-2007 at 05:42 PM.

03-09-2007	39
Spike413 barcode Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: New York Gender: homme Posts: 14,358	I'm definitely enjoying some of the arguments being presented here...and some have definitly made me think. My thoughts on the intellectual/superficial; I think that's what the real beauty in fashion (not expensive clothes as softgrey pointed out) is. It can begin as something cerebral or intellectual and ultimately becomes something sensual, which in turn can become intellectual in an entirely new way. I hope that makes sense to someone other then me. __________________ You need to move fashion forward when there's a reason to move fashion forward - Tom Ford

03-09-2007	42
wheneveriwakeup a hymn to darkness Join Date: May 2005 Location: A lace utopia... Gender: femme Posts: 2,356	Beautiful words, Spike! The confusion lies exactly there - 'fashion' is much more than putting on clothes as they 'should be' or copying the 'essence' of your favorite designer. It also boils down to the person wearing the clothes. As softgrey said, some people have the ability to reek of style, sensuality, and coolnesss no matter what they're wearing. 'Style' (I use the term loosely here, btw) has always been determined by who you're wearing, how current the item is, and of course, the pricetag that accompanied it. It is even more evident as time passes by and celebrities continue to reign supreme. Though as with everything, that powerful inkling of rebellion bubbles underneath. The rebellion spells choice. I don't agree with the 'pretty dress' notion, either. Obvious beauty, in any form, is always lovely to behold but I feel that people have so much more to offer than being asethetically pleasing in the most basic and surface sense, esp. since like a pretty face, a pretty dress is a dime-a-dozen these days. You might as well be a bonafide dressmaker as far as I'm concerned. __________________ You are my center when I spin away... Last edited by wheneveriwakeup; 03-09-2007 at 10:12 PM.

03-09-2007	36
misssakura fashion insider Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Auckland/Berkshire Gender: femme Posts: 2,381	I think a lot of people are afraid, or ashamed to admit that wearing nice clothes that suit them can make the difference between feeling "okay" and "great". It's somewhat of an illogical thing. Why does a piece of fabric over our naked forms make us feel better? Perhaps an uncultured reference but 'What not to wear' always proved this point, they'd take a woman who felt useless and ugly, put some new clothes on her and instantly it would change her attitudes. I suppose people are afraid of the 'superficial' fix, apart from a money issue, wearing clothes isn't exactly an intellectual achievement. The same as getting a haircut or a manicure. At the end of the day sometimes I pause and think how odd it is that I'm wearing clothes at all instead of parading around naked. Then I see an Oscar de la Renta and forget everything. Wearable art that boosts confidence? I'm in!

03-09-2007	41
lesypersound backstage pass Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Chicago Gender: femme Posts: 542	i have a lot of respect for style over trend or fashion. one-ups and flashing status is really superficial and what i think puritan sensibilities are against (vanity, consumerism). dressing intelligently is style imo. i'm not too sure how i feel about the conclusion. i do not think that fashion causes the synergistic effect of class, beauty, art, and money. i think money attracts those things first and foremost... then fashion/trend is used to signal status--especially with a lot of the stuff talked about on these boards. still--i respect the acquired knowledge and art of styling and fashion. :]

03-09-2007	43
gius V.I.P. Join Date: Jan 2006 Gender: homme Posts: 10,163	i think taking care how to dress is good... and so is design... both is part of fashion, no? i find some kind of joy if i see something made in an un-usual way i've never met anyone who looked down on me if i said i was into fashion i never say i'm into it though they just see it if they meet me or live with me i think everyone likes fashion one way or another __________________ ☺ ♫

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