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26-12-2008
  1
Stitch:the Hand
 
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The Age of Copying - Zowie Broach of Boudicca speaks about designers who copy ideas
i would like everybody to read this very concise,thoughtful,incredibly passionate response to the age of copying. as it were,there was a certain piece or two in madonna's collection for H&M that blatantly resembled pieces of boudicca. which i believe led ed&chief extraordinaire uscha pohl to propose this to zowie.

Quote:
C V by B O U D I CC A

The thought of a copy.

Is that an idea in itself, a creative process of stealing...?

It seems and appears to be common practice to steal. We all do.

I mean steal in the way of inspire, appropriation, re-build, deconstruct, reconstruct and yet, there are those times when somehow the boundary is crossed and theft of an idea is no longer inspired by, but a copy of, in a most considered way, to make a pure and intolerable amount of money.

It is easy. You wait for another to trip out a thought. Let them work out the idea, watch if it seduces people and then when the item and time is right to copy, you just cut, copy paste, spread fast and furiously to many, sit back and cash in.

Memeplexes, large groups of imitators, replicators are now organised by these head copyist. This, when seen working within the capitalist systems we have had built around us, is a genuine fast repeat system, incurring loss to the origin of the idea and wealth to the copyist.

Can we protect ideas? Should we protect ideas? Or should in fact we just remain confident as those who have ideas? Ideas that the world is dependant on, a ream and breed of thoughts to revolve and move around, that inspire and revolve from others. The despair is that the ripple from the epicentre of an idea, although long lasting, is rarely felt by its origin.

And again that is OK. Ideas are part of our beauty, our humanity.

We should be free in how we advance ideas, we should be open in their expression, and we should support more thoroughly the development of ideas in all contexts and maybe focus on that spirit rather than the fear of loss, the fear of bullying from those replicators.

It is all about how you sum it up and see clearly that there is no possible fight to win in fighting. The best result is to dis-empower by having another idea. Move fast, keep thoughts rapid and continue to expand the learning ability that we each have.

The future for those that a copy is dull and boring. They leave no legacy. They inspire few, they manipulate and replicate, and the truth is we should care little and share no page space, even giving them any significance. The only regret for them is, that if they only understood that they could use their power in a much more creative way, even as a copyist, then maybe we would have a clearer horizon for us all.

It is a complex essay, not able to sum up in a few lines that involves planetary concerns, creative support and education for all.

Zowie Broach, 2008.
*http://www.verystyleguide.com/verypu...3_zbroach.html

and please have a gander at these important links as well-
http://creativecommons.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_source

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26-12-2008
  2
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That is very interesting! Thank you for sharing this.

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26-12-2008
  3
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Thats a good article, thanks. Inspiration can truly lead to extraordinary things.
Also, I don't understand the fad of non-conventional designers (ex. heidi klum, erin wasson, etc) ripping off others

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24-06-2010
  4
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a great article...thanks for posting it Scott...
...

it's a complex issue...
very well stated here...

is it OK to steal ideas>?
is it OK that entire companies are built on doing nothing but copying other companies' designs...
is it worse if you steal the idea and make tons of money selling copies while the original designer barely can stay in business...?

(i kind of think it is......)
if they steal the idea AND the sales...
then they might as well be stealing money out of your pocket...
it's just plain stealing...

**and my mama always taught me that stealing is wrong...

...



what's an idea worth>?
i don't know...somebody make me an offer...
......


:p

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Last edited by softgrey; 24-06-2010 at 12:44 AM.
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24-06-2010
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in every other creative industry [i can think of at this moment], i.e. design, photography, music, film, there is a copyright on the work itself and it cannot be "stolen" and claimed for profit by others but since the "ideas/concepts" are not tangible they can be lifted and replicated without persecution. it becomes as you stated a case of pure profit with no dignity. some designer's look at it the ultimate compliment, probably because they are optimists and since they have no choice in the matter, they look on the bright side, it sucks though. as consumer's, we decide who we choose to profit from the idea and what a genuine creative thought is really worth to us, in turn, our decision either protects the idea-maker, with which this world would be a miserable place without, or feeds the frenzy of lazy-*** profiteers who dont have a visual neuron among them.

is it obvious where i stand?

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24-06-2010
  6
flaunt the imperfection
 
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......

Quote:
as consumer's, we decide who we choose to profit from the idea and what a genuine creative thought is really worth to us, in turn, our decision either protects the idea-maker, with which this world would be a miserable place without, or feeds the frenzy of lazy-*** profiteers who dont have a visual neuron among them.

is it obvious where i stand?
haha...
that is SO TRUE...
!!!...


i am totally with you lucky!...

i'd much rather buy the original than some random copy-
*if i can afford it, of course!...

doing it first is always cooler than copying someone else...imho...
i think that is really just something that should be considered a fact...
**the person who does it first is always cooler than whoever copies them...
they just ARE...





...

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Last edited by softgrey; 24-06-2010 at 07:47 PM.
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25-06-2010
  7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetest_313 View Post
Thats a good article, thanks. Inspiration can truly lead to extraordinary things.
Also, I don't understand the fad of non-conventional designers (ex. heidi klum, erin wasson, etc) ripping off others
I do not think that they are truly designers... so you are right @ the term of non-conventional. I feel like a more appropriate term would be business-people whom like to brand things. They use their image, their reputation, and connects to sell clothes are that marketable and trendy, I guess. It's never anything innovative, creative, or original to label them as designers.

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25-06-2010
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Designers nowdays can't complain, do they have new ideas?. Amazing styling,is what sells those clothes, not the clothes themselfs. I do think they should be rewarded for creating a concept every season, for having better fabrics and tailoring, but ideas?

Stores copy the clothes the designers decided were going to be in fashion, Miu Miu for example, did Miu Miu invent the "idea" of that pattern? Yes it created the pattern, but it certainly did not create the style of it. That type of pattern is as old as time.
What stops Zara from creating a pattern that gives the same "idea", isn't it what Miu Miu did on the first place? Of course they are copying Miu Miu, but it all has to do with timing.
Designers are trend setters, and they do spend a lot of money setting those trends and a lot of times even the incredibly high price of those clothes is not enough for the work they do, but the last 10 years, have been a never ending recycling of ideas, from each other and from the past, they should not complain.

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25-06-2010
  9
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That's right.
Ideas do not always originate from famous designers.

It's bad enough when mass-producing highstreet stores steal from designers, but we cannot be sure those well-known designers didn't steal from struggling unknowns. Which may be even worse. Just a thought.

Personally, I'd feel terribly duped and annoyed if I bought something inexpensive and later found out it was a shameless copy of a more expensive designer item. But then, who's to say...The whole issue is very tricky and fascinating.

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25-06-2010
  10
Stitch:the Hand
 
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it's just like those sea and landscape photo print pieces H&M did last season which were a blatant rip-off of branquinho. it was digustingly overt but still not very many people had a clue about.

perhaps that's the problem too? we're force fed so much by copyists that what they do is original that people fall for it. we don't research enough and i think in this day and age as corporatists have become so prevalent in this industry,we as consumers,if we care anything about the integrity of people that have smaller businesses,we must keep our eyes open.

i try to avoid it as much as i can. that's why i very rarely venture into chain stores because 9/10 times there will be something or some things that i will notice very obviously and it makes me crazy.

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25-06-2010
  11
flaunt the imperfection
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Les_Sucettes View Post
Designers nowdays can't complain, do they have new ideas?. Amazing styling,is what sells those clothes, not the clothes themselfs. I do think they should be rewarded for creating a concept every season, for having better fabrics and tailoring, but ideas?

Stores copy the clothes the designers decided were going to be in fashion, Miu Miu for example, did Miu Miu invent the "idea" of that pattern? Yes it created the pattern, but it certainly did not create the style of it. That type of pattern is as old as time.
What stops Zara from creating a pattern that gives the same "idea", isn't it what Miu Miu did on the first place? Of course they are copying Miu Miu, but it all has to do with timing.
Designers are trend setters, and they do spend a lot of money setting those trends and a lot of times even the incredibly high price of those clothes is not enough for the work they do, but the last 10 years, have been a never ending recycling of ideas, from each other and from the past, they should not complain.
i think this is nonsense...
if one takes the time to look for it...
there is still plenty of creativity and innovation to be found...
i think it's a cop out to say that 'nothing is original'...
'everyone copies everyone else'...

NO- they don't...
the LAZY and/or UNTALENTED ones do that...


innovation may be hard to come by...but that is part of the point...
if it was everywhere and just anyone could come up with brilliant designs all the time...then it wouldn't be such an amazing thing...
and it wouldn't be so cool!>...

but brilliant ideas are few and far between...
making it all the more exciting when you come across one of them...
**and they ARE out there...
plenty of them...

even if it's a twist or interpretation of something that already exists...
if it is interpreted in a new way that hasn't been seen before and it hits the right chord at the right moment in the universe...
then it can be revolutionary...

and that is what i think makes it valuable...
and worth spending extra $$$...

by definition-being original means that you have to do it first...
so being first is cool...
being original is cool...

and copying is just boring...

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25-06-2010
  12
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To rob a thief isn't outrageous at all in my book, to have the thief claiming credit for what he's been robbed, that's what gets me. To see designers like Miuccia or Marc Jacobs and even Nicholas Ghesquiere saying how bad knock-offs are is a little too ironic for my sense of humor. Even when people like doubting small independent designers, they're the ones that remain creative, uncredited and vulnerable as always.. and that's what this thread is about anyway, it isn't about the likes of Miuccia but real creators such as Boudicca, those that don't need stylists or trend books in order to create clothes and that remain overlooked and anyone can steal from them because no one knows who they are. That's such a shameless act that I always feel bad to witness. I'm not sure ideas could be protected but I feel like crediting could be less of a taboo in fashion, I see so many musicians quoting current, unknown bands as an inspiration, same for film makers.. in other art fields, it just seems more natural to say where you got your inspiration from and keep things friendly.. in fashion they ask designers what inspired them and instead of saying it was clearly Peter Pilotto, they give you some "I woke up one day and had this idea of tiny acid prints".
I know there's this fear of sharing the attention you receive with someone else but I also think there's space for everyone at this point, if demand has made you so busy to the point you need to steal ideas from smaller unknown designers, then demand will probably be enough for you and the other designer..

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25-06-2010
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If someone takes someone else's great - but fairly unprofitable - idea and turns it into something that sells like mad, they might have 'borrowed' the concept but they've been able to build on it because they've possessed business skills that the original source either didn't have or had some reason not to apply. Who's the untalented one? The one who had the idea which they couldn't or wouldn't capitalise on, or the one who didn't sweat at the start but who worked hard to make money?

Creativity and business - you need to be the master of both, and mix them together in a compromise if you want to harness your own ideas in a way that profits you. The eternal refrain from people is, "I don't believe in compromise" - but being able to produce a successful compromise is an art in itself. It isn't enough to have ideas, you have a responsibility to make the most of them, by learning the skills that make that happen.

If you don't want anyone copying you in some way, don't show your stuff to the world. If you want to make money from your ideas like your imitators do, then it might be time to look and learn from them, the same way they have from you.

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Last edited by tigerrouge; 25-06-2010 at 04:48 PM.
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25-06-2010
  14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerrouge View Post
If someone takes someone else's great - but fairly unprofitable - idea and turns it into something that sells like mad, they might have 'borrowed' the concept but they've been able to build on it because they've possessed business skills that the original source either didn't have or had some reason not to apply. Who's the untalented one? The one who had the idea which they couldn't or wouldn't capitalise on, or the one who didn't sweat at the start but who worked hard to make money?

Creativity and business - you need to be the master of both, and mix them together in a compromise if you want to harness your own ideas in a way that profits you. The eternal refrain from people is, "I don't believe in compromise" - but being able to produce a successful compromise is an art in itself. It isn't enough to have ideas, you have a responsibility to make the most of them, by learning the skills that make that happen.

If you don't want anyone copying you in some way, don't show your stuff to the world. If you want to make money from your ideas like your imitators do, then it might be time to look and learn from them, the same way they have from you.
Coming from the world of science I must say most of value comes from discussion and debate. Being overly protective of your ideas then does not bring the world forward.

The real talent is the idea. The rest is will to power.

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27-06-2010
  15
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I'm seeing some conflict between the opinions expressed in this thread and the enthusiasm in other threads on tFS for inexpensive copies of designer goods. Personally I don't like them ... in my experience they always water down the original (at least the knock-offs of things I've bought & liked have been like that) ... I think it's better to have a few great (original) things than a bunch of cheap knock-offs. There are better ways to save money ...

I agree with what the designer is saying here about line for line (or close enough) copies. But I frequently see accusations in collection threads of copying, when to me it's a clear case of inspiration/reference--it's something new, an homage, not a copy.

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