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25-03-2004
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It's brutally chic...like Balenciaga possibly...

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25-03-2004
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Quote:
Originally posted by Orochian@Mar 25th, 2004 - 12:42 am
Design is NOT art. Practitioners of the field of architecture, myself included, would be downright insulted if someone called their works "art". And if that sounds a little extreme to outsiders, ponder on the difference between a beautiful sculpture and a brilliant building. You'll get it.
I agree with you and also why you say that, however I think in architecture, industrial design, and even fashion design there can be artistic expression. I would never refer to a well designed building as Art, but I wouldn't get rid of the idea that it COULD be refered to as art.

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25-03-2004
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Quote:
Originally posted by Glam@Dec 29th, 2003 - 12:57 pm
i am 99% silent but this time shud notice that imo DSQUARED are really innovative and yes sometimes trashy but really cool and unique, they bring us fresh new ideas.
but, are they innovative in the way that hedi slimane or helmut lang are creative?

i think dsquared2 takes already instyle trends and just takes them to the extreme like the super duper low rise pants for example. they havent created anything from scratch. whereas you get lang who was totally creative when he designed those skeleton shirts, where have you seen that before? or hedi's very different skinny luster collection.

yeah, i agree dsq2 should be a diffusion line already lol. the prices are ridiculous.

to me its like abercrombie, but tighter, lower and sexier -- which isn't neccessarily a bad thing. just not that creative.

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25-03-2004
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Quote:
Originally posted by Orochian@Mar 25th, 2004 - 6:42 am
Fashion is not art. There, I just said it again and apparently I'm not the only one who's holding that view.

Art in all its forms does not have any functional perspective to it except for the pleasures, experiences, messages it provides its audience. Clothes have to fit. They have to enable and facilitate us in our daily activities. Fabrics used in clothes directly affect our physical well being. All of these, just to name a few, are the functional aspects of fashion design that simply do not concern a painter or potter or dancer.

Design is NOT art. Practitioners of the field of architecture, myself included, would be downright insulted if someone called their works "art". And if that sounds a little extreme to outsiders, ponder on the difference between a beautiful sculpture and a brilliant building. You'll get it.
i agree here,
fashion like architecture are applied arts which makes all the difference.

i'm not too far from loserunit's comments but yes, there are thick lines between *art (for expression, communcation etc =everybody is by definition able to create art)
*fine art (for the same reasons as above but done by someone who actually have studied art = artist) and...
*applied art (fashion, graphics, architecture or industrial design where we deal with function, creativity and esthetics )

if you want my opinion, applied art is the hardest of all

plus i dont really know what all this -very interesting discussion- has to do with DSquared

maybe we should split topics and discuss fine & applied art

let me know if you are interested

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25-03-2004
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lena@Mar 25th, 2004 - 4:21 pm
plus i dont really know what all this -very interesting discussion- has to do with DSquared

maybe we should split topics and discuss fine & applied art

let me know if you are interested
Sounds good. How about the definition of fashion as art? What does everything think?

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25-03-2004
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Lena, do it!

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25-03-2004
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My teddy-boy driving-instructor might have said : "Step on the gas, baby!"

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25-03-2004
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done

applied arts and fine art is indeed a different story

as a designer i could never dream of doing whatever came to my mind, simply because 'ideas' had to materialise, get constructed (one is depended to 'good hands') , pay for fabrics & trimmings, take care of FIT and then of course sell my 'art' which means ...commercialising the artistic idea takes art to a totally different level.

i do art when i scketch for fun, for expression and communication of ideas and creativity. when designing for fashion/architecture/graphics etc etc, artistic feeling is certainly there, but the end 'product' is not art guys..

if it was art it was going to be in.. museums

ps:thats what makes the whole creative proceedure of fashion/architecture etc so interesting to me, the combination and perfection of both creativity and functionality

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25-03-2004
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I agree with Orochian and Lena. Fashion is not a legitimate art or fine art. Though some fashion (Galliano/Balenciaga/Hussein Chalayan) goes far beyond the extent of jeans and t-shirts, fashion still remains an applied art.

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25-03-2004
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But isn't it all just a means of creative expression? Everyone just voices it in a different format. For example, both Picasso and Gropius might have had the same concept in something, they felt more confident in alternative mediums.

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25-03-2004
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Quote:
Originally posted by chickonspeed@Mar 25th, 2004 - 4:50 pm
I agree with Orochian and Lena. Fashion is not a legitimate art or fine art. Though some fashion (Galliano/Balenciaga/Hussein Chalayan) goes far beyond the extent of jeans and t-shirts, fashion still remains an applied art.
I disagree with the idea that fashion isn't art. The work of houses like Commes des Garcons, for example, is definately a visual art in my opinion. I think it's really sad that fashion has traditionally been seen as a "lower form." Under the hand of a talented designer it surely has intergrity in it's own right.

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25-03-2004
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Quote:
Originally posted by purplelucrezia@Mar 25th, 2004 - 10:51 pm
But isn't it all just a means of creative expression? Everyone just voices it in a different format. For example, both Picasso and Gropius might have had the same concept in something, they felt more confident in alternative mediums.
the difference is that fashion design is not just creative expression when one needs to keep in mind functionality of 'sales' figures, those actually can take all the 'art' out of 'applied arts' if you know what i mean.

and what about mass producers of fashion (Zara etc) could you call them artists?
no way right?
design is not the same as art when its done for a commercial reason.

if one designs for the theater/dance/movies its quite more artistic,
but still one is not completly free to express whatever they like,
due to certain 'restrains' mainly the director's view on the costumes/scenography.

fashion designers can be 'artistic' for special projects like instalations or art exhibitions, but on the whole even though creativity is there , there are too many rules to follow in construction and distribution

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25-03-2004
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lena+Mar 25th, 2004 - 5:01 pm--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Lena @ Mar 25th, 2004 - 5:01 pm)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-purplelucrezia@Mar 25th, 2004 - 10:51 pm
But isn't it all just a means of creative expression? Everyone just voices it in a different format. For example, both Picasso and Gropius might have had the same concept in something, they felt more confident in alternative mediums.
the difference is that fashion design is not just creative expression when one needs to keep in mind functionality of 'sales' figures, those actually can take all the 'art' out of 'applied arts' if you know what i mean.

and what about mass producers of fashion (Zara etc) could you call them artists?
no way right?
design is not the same as art when its done for a commercial reason.

if one designs for the theater/dance/movies its quite more artistic,
but still one is not completly free to express whatever they like,
due to certain 'restrains' mainly the director's view on the costumes/scenography.

fashion designers can be 'artistic' for special projects like instalations or art exhibitions, but on the whole even though creativity is there , there are too many rules to follow in construction and distribution [/b][/quote]
You are right in regards to more commercial brands. I do feel that many fashion designers out there are worthy of the title of artist though.

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25-03-2004
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Quote:
Originally posted by purplelucrezia@Mar 25th, 2004 - 10:54 pm

I disagree with the idea that fashion isn't art. The work of houses like Commes des Garcons, for example, is definately a visual art in my opinion. I think it's really sad that fashion has traditionally been seen as a "lower form." Under the hand of a talented designer it surely has intergrity in it's own right.
oh no, its not 'lower' at all , on the contrary is 'higher' when done well, because one needs to 'master' a number of different and contradicting 'down to earth' elements while remaining creative and original.
fashion design as applied art is actually more 'intriguing' or 'challeging' than fine art if you see it in depth
even at CDG, trust me they dont see their work as art, thats why they support artists so much, because they know their limits as a designer house.

art is created free of commercialism.
when picasso or clemente sit in front of an empty canvas,
they dont think about fit, costs, distributions or raw materials
and that makes a tremendous difference my dearest purplelucrezia

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25-03-2004
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haha, a new topic needed, "definition of art"

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