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25-03-2004
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Quote:
Originally posted by softgrey@Mar 25th, 2004 - 7:34 pm
orochian and lena have very eloquently expressed my basic feelings on this issue...although i did not always see this so clearly...i think that learning about the business side of the fashion industry gives one a clearer view of the 'big picture'...i know it's opened my eyes to a whole new perspective and understanding...

purple and loserunit-not every form of creative expression falls into the fine art category...cooking can be creative...lovemaking can even be creative...do you call that art?...not really...fine art takes creativity to the extreme, with no boundaries or limitations other than that of your own imagination...i think its only purpose is to express the artist's point of view...it's actually a great luxury...to have the freedom to create without having to think about what anyone else will think of it...to make art only for oneself, can be quite liberatiing..
i think many designers are artists at heart, but the work they do to pay the rent is not necessarily art...
when i used to do visual design...many of the people i worked with were artists and were just doing windows to pay the rent...they did not consider the displays they worked on art, even though they were artists and this was a very creative endeavor.. it's very hard to be an artist unless you have a rich family or sponsor...if you don't, then you have to get a job to support yourself...


i also agree with lena that applied arts can actually be more challenging...sometimes it's even more fun...like a puzzle to solve...given a set of conditions, find the best solution...
that's how i see it, anyway



i'm not saying it falls into a fine art category. it's an art category which is extremely general.

fine art is fine art. applied art is applied art. it's all still art.


ok this is what i consider art. it's a process. through which creativty, logic, and mental challenge all clash to make a performace or piece, that stimulates emotional response.

a cardboard box is not art for it evokes not emotion. rarely does anyone go oo that cardboard box makes me so mad.

but if a painting or performace or fashion piece can stir someone's emotions to that extent then the artist has accomplished something amazing.

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25-03-2004
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Quote:
Originally posted by Spacemiu+Mar 25th, 2004 - 7:35 pm--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Spacemiu @ Mar 25th, 2004 - 7:35 pm)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-loserunit@Mar 24th, 2004 - 10:32 pm

fashion is art. any type of expression is considered art. sure if may not be the fine art that you refer to as do whatever the hell you want.

design is just as much art an oil painting.

you can't go to a trade school and just become a great designer, it's like becoming a mechanic.

some people just have a natural design and composition sense and that is why most design programs, or at least the better ones, not the FITs of the country, at located at acclaimed FINE art schools that offer fine art as well as more industrial.

but don't say it's not art.
I totally agree with you, Fashion is art. id outn udnerstand that just becuas youc an wear it dosn't make ti art, Of coarse we ahve to work within the boudaries of our medium , all people ahve to do this, btu if there is an intention twords creativety and expression I dount see hwo it could not be considered art. [/b][/quote]
i must also add this-
fine art has no boundaries...that's the fundamental difference...that is why anything that has boundaries cannot be called fine art...it is different and has a different name ...applied art...

too many posters have said that everyone has to work within boundaries...not true...that's the whole point of being an artist...being free to express yourself in any way you choose...art is complete freedom of expression...you're not limited by your materials...what materials...you can choose whatever medium you want...if you want to paint suirrels blue and put them in a pink room...you can (i actually saw this in a gallery in soho)...no one can tell you not to because it's your vision and you can do whatever you like......
there is an artist right now digging a hole in the desert in arizona...because that's what he wants to do...i know another artist who's exhibit includes a self portrait carved from cheese...another artist who bites chocolate...whatever you can think of...

no limitations...
except maybe financing...which again is why it is so difficult to really be an artist...sadly, most artist's greatest limitation is lack of funds...

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25-03-2004
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sorry loserunit.i was not speaking in such broad terms...i think most people use the terrm art when referring to fine art since everything else has another name...ie-architecture, music,dance...i assumed we were speaking about the common use of the word art as meaning fine art...

i mean, there's no question that there can be creative aspects to things that aren't necessarily art...

i don't know
now i'm not sure what you mean...

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25-03-2004
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ok I'll just make my statement simple and brief.
I agree that fashion is definitely applied art not fine art, but still, it's art.

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25-03-2004
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Quote:
Originally posted by softgrey+Mar 25th, 2004 - 5:56 pm--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(softgrey @ Mar 25th, 2004 - 5:56 pm)</div><div class='quotemain'>
Quote:
Originally posted by Spacemiu@Mar 25th, 2004 - 7:35 pm
<!--QuoteBegin-loserunit
Quote:
@Mar 24th, 2004 - 10:32 pm

fashion is art. any type of expression is considered art. sure if may not be the fine art that you refer to as do whatever the hell you want.

design is just as much art an oil painting.

you can't go to a trade school and just become a great designer, it's like becoming a mechanic.

some people just have a natural design and composition sense and that is why most design programs, or at least the better ones, not the FITs of the country, at located at acclaimed FINE art schools that offer fine art as well as more industrial.

but don't say it's not art.

I totally agree with you, Fashion is art. id outn udnerstand that just becuas youc an wear it dosn't make ti art, Of coarse we ahve to work within the boudaries of our medium , all people ahve to do this, btu if there is an intention twords creativety and expression I dount see hwo it could not be considered art.
i must also add this-
fine art has no boundaries...that's the fundamental difference...that is why anything that has boundaries cannot be called fine art...it is different and has a different name ...applied art...

too many posters have said that everyone has to work within boundaries...not true...that's the whole point of being an artist...being free to express yourself in any way you choose...art is complete freedom of expression...you're not limited by your materials...what materials...you can choose whatever medium you want...if you want to paint suirrels blue and put them in a pink room...you can (i actually saw this in a gallery in soho)...no one can tell you not to because it's your vision and you can do whatever you like......
there is an artist right now digging a hole in the desert in arizona...because that's what he wants to do...i know another artist who's exhibit includes a self portrait carved from cheese...another artist who bites chocolate...whatever you can think of...

no limitations...
except maybe financing...which again is why it is so difficult to really be an artist...sadly, most artist's greatest limitation is lack of funds...
[/b][/quote]
yes this is true, trust me I belvie that art is freedom more than any body, but if you choose to work in a certin medium ( cloth, clay, paint) you do have certin limitations as to what you can physically make.


Fashion is art its creating some thing that has beauty, creativety and meaning. its work with ideas and feelings to materialise and express them in a form. to em this is art. I belive fashion is a fine art just as much as any thinge ls, i doutn see what the diffrence is between painting , dancing or makeing a dress.

I have done many forms of of art all of my life, I ahve always been obsessed with creativety and expression and I always will eb , for me fashion is art, for some one ells it may not be, I do belive its all what you put into it and what you make.

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25-03-2004
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Would you all consider poetry or literature as art? Those things evoke emotions too, but never have I heard either considered as 'art'. Lest we forget,fashion in terms of expression and creativity,are normally considered as a sort of language?

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25-03-2004
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Quote:
Originally posted by Spacemiu@Mar 25th, 2004 - 8:25 pm
Fashion is art its creating some thing that has beauty, creativety and meaning. its work with ideas and feelings to materialise and express them in a form. to em this is art. I belive fashion is a fine art just as much as any thinge ls, i doutn see what the diffrence is between painting , dancing or makeing a dress.

I have done many forms of of art all of my life, I ahve always been obsessed with creativety and expression and I always will eb , for me fashion is art, for some one ells it may not be, I do belive its all what you put into it and what you make.
Exactly!

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25-03-2004
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scott@Mar 25th, 2004 - 9:28 pm
Would you all consider poetry or literature as art? Those things evoke emotions too, but never have I heard either considered as 'art'. Lest we forget,fashion in terms of expression and creativity,are normally considered as a sort of language?
i would consider it poetry.

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25-03-2004
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So what does everyone think about performance art then?

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25-03-2004
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Quote:
Originally posted by purplelucrezia@Mar 25th, 2004 - 10:36 pm
So what does everyone think about performance art then?
scrool up. or i mentioned it up.

i defineately consider it art.

it's a creative process that takes someone away from you and reaches out to an audience [dual meaning]

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26-03-2004
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art is something that requires a definition beyond the obvious. in my world, in terms of fashion. Haute Couture (for the most part) is art. fine art at that. because it is a creation that is meant to instill a feeling, whether it is revulsion, awe, amazement... whatever, it forces the viewer to look at the fabrics that clothe a body as something other than utilitarian. see, ready to wear is not art, for it has no other interpretation other than a essential purpose.

nowadays, even if there is paint on a canvas, it cannot and should not be considered art just because it is on a frame or in a gallery. art over the last sixty years has taught us that.

art cannot be anything. people always say that. art is anything. art is everything. it is not though. art has to be in a context, have a purpose, be something beyond what the eye can see, and needs to be interpreted. architecture can be art. music can be art. but only if what is created is meant to cause a human reaction. if the piece does nothing, but is meant to do something, then it has no purpose and cannot be considered art. (however if the piece does nothing, but is meant to do nothing, it is art)

does that make any sense whatsoever?

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26-03-2004
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of course it does ocean

this discussion is uber interesting

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26-03-2004
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I still don't believe its been expressed enough....this industry is one of the most consumer driven and in the end,even with all the expression,experimenting and all the creativity,its a 'good' or a product. Sure the financial aspects in art are there as well,but its not as peril,unlike fashion designers who run businesses that stretch the world over.

But I will say this also,the lines of everything we consider as such,like with art and with music,are blurring to the point where there really is no significant definitions that much anymore. Everybody is inspired by something or another.

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26-03-2004
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We had a discussion about this at art history class. Everything is art today, a person can take a chair, put in an empty room and say it's art. In my opinion art is something from the heart, something emotional for the artist, the artist may be making a political point of view or doing something pretty to make people smile etc. I say that fashion design, music, poetry, arcitecture and more to be art. It's put down in all sorts of categories and is all differant in a way, but it's all something that a person creates, it's something from the heart, people put a part of their soul in their creation.

You people would never consider your basic school chairs and tables artworks but let me tell you this, most of these easy made and cheap furniture were originally made in Bauhaus, a famous art school in Germany, it was designed in the second world war, most students wanted to make the world easier for those who were poor or middle class, they thought that people should be able to afford good looking, simple, practical and cheep furniture. They even designed a house (Haus am Horn) where every space was used, it was cheep, beautiful, simple and enough room even if it was small. Today no one thinks of these furnitures as art but in those dais they were a breakthrough in the art world, so they are art in a way, it takes great artist to do something as extrordinary (sp?) as these kids did and their ideas had no limits.

I consider my designs art, I would be offended to hear that my designs are not art, I create from the heart, I put everything in what I make, my schisors and needle are my brushes and my material and thread is my paint and my body is the canvas.

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26-03-2004
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I'm a graphic designer (corporate in-house) by trade. And that's exactly what it is. A trade. I create for the purpose of commerce.
Is that art?

In 4 years of art school, and after i've been struggling to find the "definition" for that concept (art). But I realized that by defining it, i'm setting up limitations, which in this case can not benefit me. So in the same sense that I try not to define who or what G_d is, I won't try to define art.

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