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21-01-2005
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helena's Avatar
 
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I think faust should kick off with something sublimely clever as he always is:p


Last edited by helena; 21-01-2005 at 07:34 AM.
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21-01-2005
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that's fine..but posts always go by the date...so that would mean we would have delete everything and start over...or copy and re-post them idividually after faust's big opening speech...

i've moved over some posts which need to go back to avh...moving individual posts is super tricky guys...look what happened to secret shopaholics...so please ...it's very important to stay on topic...and post in the correct thread...thanks!!
(helena... this means you!!!... ...LOL)


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21-01-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by softgrey
that's fine..but posts always go by the date...so that would mean we would have delete everything and start over...or copy and re-post them idividually after faust's big opening speech...

i've moved over some posts which need to go back to avh...moving individual posts is super tricky guys...look what happened to secret shopaholics...so please ...it's very important to stay on topic...and post in the correct thread...thanks!!
(helena... this means you!!!... ...LOL)

sorry miss grey! you know how my mind wanders off on a tangent. ok sorry.

so in america now....do you think aestheics, art & culture (in the high sense) are important to most people? or do you think most people just want to be intellectually numbed by the media, film, art & fashion. That's how I think most british people feel. They want to tune in to what is easy & non-confrontational. Its easy to buy clothes that are the same as everyone else & to switch on celebrity big brother & to read tabloids....most people take the path of least resistance.

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21-01-2005
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well...just take a look at this site in general...
even though we are one of the least superficial websites about fashion...
the star style and supporting cast sections of this site get more action than designers an collections...

we've got a walking, talking barbie...a korean pig...and several know-it-alls(who have not really done their homework but act as though their word is gospel)...and lying seems to be perfectly acceptable...

it does seem that there is little value placed on culture and education and integrity in recent history...
it seems that people do want some sort of distraction and don't want to have to work too hard...maybe they're lazy...or maybe they work hard enough at their job...so they just want to kick back after work...but it does seem like there is more emphasis placed on celebrity and fame and $$$ than there is on integrity and any sense of honour and/or self-respect...

i may be an exception simply because both my parent's are educators...and one of the things they passed on to me is a sense of curiosity about the world around me...
i am always searching for something...always curious and wanting to learn something new...

but i'm in ny...where people come to seek fame and fortune...i have no explanation for why things are the way they are in the rest of the country...it's as much of a mystery to me as it is to anyone outside the US...becuase technically...i live on a little island off the coast of the united states...


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21-01-2005
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first of all this thread is really interesting and refreshing. thank you!

i think what softgrey said about people wanting distraction is very true. also i get the feeling that they want to believe in a kind of beauty that seems accessible via money make up artists etc....a kind of beauty that goes deeper, that comes from the inside from a true search for beauty scares people, they tend to think it is somehow snobbish (wrong word!) because you cannot exactly name the source where it comes from.

i see similar tendences in culture generally: average people dislike poetry for example because they think they canīt understand it. they do not want to trust their instincts...same with painters, they like dali beause you can tell he COULD paint...

about this forum, i have noticed that people are mostly in the star style or supporting section, too. but i post there because i am interested in beauty almost in a scientific way (i admit distraction also), i am interested in personalities...i like to single out people/artists who are special...be it even only through their looks.

in the designers and collection forum i am often just to look at things other people posted because i feel i am not knowing enough about recent changes...labels to post myself.

hope some of that made sense.

thanks again for the topic, i really liked what all you said so far.

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21-01-2005
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right...anna k...
and notice how you are posting pics of artists and ballerinas and offbeat beauties...and note that there are about 5-10 posters who are all posting in those threads...but no one else...

the masses do not appreiciate something that they have to work at understanding...
if they have to go below the surface...then it's too much work and they can't be bothered...at least that's how it seems...

it's the same with the androgyny thread...people can't see the beauty...unless you take the girl and paint her face full of make up...more like the traditional beauty that the masses are used to...and then suddenly everyone says...wow...she's gorgeous...well...she was gorgeous without the make uop too...it's the same person...but people don't seem to have any imagination left...maybe they've been spoon-fed by the media for too long now and they have forgotten how to use their imagination...

even little kids have so much 'STUFF' to play with...that they really don't have to explore their imaginations...they can just buy whatever they want...they don't have to make up games and make things to amuse themselves...so of course they become brainless adults...just following the rest of the group without even thinking...and shopping at the mall like everyone else...

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21-01-2005
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I think this thread is a wonderful discussion. Thanx for reviving it. I'm feeling like a "brainless adult" right now and can't really make a response that will be comprehensible, but will later.

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21-01-2005
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I find this topic very interesting but I don't agree with everything being said.
Quote:
about this forum, i have noticed that people are mostly in the star style or supporting section, too. but i post there because i am interested in beauty almost in a scientific way (i admit distraction also), i am interested in personalities...i like to single out people/artists who are special...be it even only through their looks.
What's wrong with posting on Supporting Cast and Star Style? People may use these forums as a lighthearted break from their day, who knows what they are interested as well as models, fashion photography and celebrity premieres. I imagine a lot of members do like to discuss and think about more serious topics, but perhaps do it through reading the newspaper, watching television documentiries or dramas, through any educational classes they take or just talking with people around them.

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21-01-2005
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Don't shoot the messenger!

Culture takes time. And transmitting culture takes a lot of time. I believe that, in part, the lack of cultural education and appreciation stems from the lack of time parents spend with their children.

Once upon a time, when one parent (yes, usually the mother) did not work outside the home, there was time for children's concerts, reading art books at home, encouraging young talent, etc. With a ready source of parents as volunteers, it was easier for schools to have field trips to museums and to staff afterschool clubs around cultural topics. This applies to Girl Scouts, 4H, and similar organizations as well. Given that many families struggle just to find time to eat a meal together, the logistics of an outing to a nearby city to see a special exhibition can seem completely impossible.

Coming home to an empty house, most children are likely to take the path of least resistance -- the television or video games, neither of which are known for fostering intellectual curiosity or stimulating creativity.

When the busy parents arrive home, usually separately and at different times, the possibility that they might change their clothing for a night at the opera or the symphony or an art gallery opening seems pretty remote. In fact, just going out to the cinema is in great decline. The exhausted parents join their children in front of the telly. Consequently, the children do not even experience culture vicariously and they see that it is not a priority, competing for their parents' precious time.

Schools do not pick up the slack, more likely to take children to a "pumpkin patch" than to an art gallery or botanic garden.

Of course there are exceptions to this. Sadly, I think that the cultural drift is going swiftly in the wrong direction and shall exact a heavy penalty.


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21-01-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by softgrey

even little kids have so much 'STUFF' to play with...that they really don't have to explore their imaginations...they can just buy whatever they want...they don't have to make up games and make things to amuse themselves...so of course they become brainless adults...just following the rest of the group without even thinking...and shopping at the mall like everyone else...
At the risk of sounding like a victorian, I am totally with you on this point. I am astounded at the way children are spoiled & overindulged nowadays. They have so much so young that how can anything be appreciated or treasured. to make a trivial example, how could a young adult treasure the beauty of an amazing prada coat if they have been used to wearing a myriad of designer childrenswear since they could say Christian Dior? Parents don't take their kids to the museum or art gallery for fear of them throwing a tantrum because its not a disney theme park. I think it makes for very bored & jaded young adults who have seen it all & done it all. Everything comes so easily that they neither have towork nor think very hard for anything in life. Its another disease of the affluent. In my HUMBLE opinion.

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21-01-2005
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that was a great post tealady...good to see you my dear...hope you are well...

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21-01-2005
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Thanks, softgrey, it's good to be back!

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21-01-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helena
At the risk of sounding like a victorian, I am totally with you on this point. I am astounded at the way children are spoiled & overindulged nowadays. They have so much so young that how can anything be appreciated or treasured. to make a trivial example, how could a young adult treasure the beauty of an amazing prada coat if they have been used to wearing a myriad of designer childrenswear since they could say Christian Dior? Parents don't take their kids to the museum or art gallery for fear of them throwing a tantrum because its not a disney theme park. I think it makes for very bored & jaded young adults who have seen it all & done it all. Everything comes so easily that they neither have towork nor think very hard for anything in life. Its another disease of the affluent. In my HUMBLE opinion.

I couldn't agree with you more Helena. I have friends that have 4 children who are spoiled ROTTEN. They don't have any responsibilities and aren't held accountable for their actions. It drives me absolutely crazy. These kids have 4 diffenent game systems and the oldest 2 have handhelds. It's always about newer newer newer and more more more. The parents are completely overworked and always running around trying to take care of the kids so they take the easy route like Tealady said and sit in front of the TV.

Unfortunately, I think this is the way it is in many American households. I don't think it has anything to do with affluence either. You see it in every income bracket. What I think is even more disturbing is that these days, children (and many adults) don't appreciate what they have because society is always selling them something else. I think that is where it starts and art and culture have now place in their lives.

I think that the public school systems are in such a poor state here that any sort of extra curricular activities are impossible, unless of course they are sports related. Creativity is hardly encouraged. If it is, it's in an elected course which many students take for an easy grade, not because they find it interesting.

still feeling kind of brainless, hope that i'm making some sort of sense...

Tealady, wonderful post! It's lovely to see you.


Last edited by purechris; 21-01-2005 at 11:08 AM.
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21-01-2005
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yes I think what Tealady said is so true - parents buy STUFF for their kids to compensate for not engaging with them. Its guilt. but its so cyclical. work long hours to afford STUFF to buy kids to spoil them because of working long hours. Its not confined to the US. In the UK we work the longest hours in europe and its the same here. I don't know, I can see how it happens. It takes a big effort not to be like that and most people don't make that effort.

purechris - you're not brainless!


Last edited by helena; 21-01-2005 at 11:16 AM.
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21-01-2005
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and so this translates to a jeans culture...more mindlessness...
just throw on a pair of jeans...a total no-brainer...

because let's face it...getting 'dressed' takes some effort...it used to be that even in times of war people would make that effort...it was a matter of self-esteem and pride...but now people go to the extreme to make it look as though they haven't tried at all...how hypocritical and odd is that?!?!...

and they raise the prices on all the jeans and sweatsuits and people feel like they're wearing their 'good clothes' because they've spent a smalll fortune on it...but in reality...they are all wearing jeans and a sweatshirt/t-shirt...

look at dior homme...how much for a pair of jeans???...and don't tell me you couldn't get most of that stuff in a thrift store or at the flea market...part of the point of shopping at one of those places used to be that you would find something that was more unique and you wouldn't see yourself coming or going...but even that look has been co-opted by the big fashion houses...it's just like a very fancy and exclusive GAP...it's a small cult...whose members are all brainwashed...but think they aren't...but you'd have to be brainwashed to spend that kind of money for a pair of jeans...because there is NO WAY that that price is justified...it's a cult...

the CULT OF FASHIONALITY>>>!!!


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Last edited by softgrey; 21-01-2005 at 11:26 AM.
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