[Scott]

appreciate the compliment,muxu!

i don't think there is a death per se...i think one just need to explore beneath the piles of dictatorships in the industry to discover the real ideas,creativity and vision. and that's not say that those qualities are unattainable or inaccessible because there are talents that do have the capabilities as mcqueen to bride a gap between those and commercialism...meaning having your works reaching people in a sellable respect,i mean. the main aspect for me in any designer is integrity,whatever their aesthetics or design approach is,and i tend get that with indie designers more than anybody.

[telepathicgoat]

I like the fact that there are people like scott being actively part of a solution, or at least an alternative way to look at fashion.

That's the problem with this topic, there isn't a proper definition for a visionary.

And personally, if there is a problem with new visionaries, I don't think there's room for them, because in the last couple of years everything has been focussed on indivuality and democracy in fashion.

Again, take a look at all the blogs, all comments etc. EVERYTHING seems to be related to our private life. If it doesn't fit this way of thinking it's not good enough. (Maybe it's an American way of thinking, not sure)

Yesterday I had to read someone's comment who was talking about unwearibility of Marc Jacobs (!!!!!!!). And I just have to accept it, because everything nowadays is personal and individual and blah blah. AND everyone nowadays has to form an opinion...

This society is all about consumption, consumption, consumption. There is no time anymore to get bedazzled by something we experience, if we don't get it served to fit our lifes....

BAH! Maybe I'm rambling now... sorry

By the way, the definition for visionary has changed throughout time, I guess. Society has changed... So has the definition...

[Fabulyss]

Quote:

Originally Posted by palais_de_tokyo karma to fabulyss... she's very right, even if the industry (ick... i hate that term for fashion) provides less creative material, one can always combine things in a new or astonishing way. very well proven by the sartorialist, where often the pieces people wear are not so special by themselves but put together may blow you away. and i might like to add: a few years ago everybody was going 'trends are an illusion' or 'styling and fashion has become so diverse... there are no rules anymore', which - at least in theory - was a wonderful thought... nowadays i get a feeling there is some kind of need inside people's heads back to this trend-orientated view of fashion... which i find truly sad and limiting... just my 2 cents

Thank you
I completely agree with you as well, only lately I've been seeing trends permeate The Sartorialist as well (they're all starting to look the same)

[Scott]

and that's why i've abandoned the term avant garde aeons ago. it's become such fodder in the last years....like a trendy label the mainstream fashion world deems not so understandable or safe. which is appalling. and honestly,in that vein you speak of,palais de tokyo,it just seems to me,people percieve the creative world as a group of outrageous,out of touch dynamics who only put on shows with no actual substance and that's simply not the case. for me i can love the quirkier aesthetics of bernhard as much as i can i dunno,the quieter,simpler works of branquinho or ackermann.

[fourboltmain]

I think what needs to happen is people need to start supporting local and underground designers more. But the biggest problem is people need to be more open-minded in general. Here, it doesn't seem to be a problem, but in the great context of things, ask anyone on the street to name 5 fashion designers.

You'll get something like 'Umm... like... LV, Dior, oh! And I love what Coco Chanel is making these days!' only because they're so well branded and diluted that they've become household names like Kleenex and Ziplock. And when the majority of people are content with brands they associate with wealth and style, why go out of your way to top yourself? The brand name is worth more than the actual product at this point, exactly every corporation's goal.

'LVMH operates over 1,900 stores worldwide. Its current business plan aims to tightly control the brands it manages in order to maintain and heighten the perception of luxury relating to their products.'

^ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LVMH

[Paula Mattoso]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Salvatore Well, I think a renaissance/revolution is approaching soon and a new crop of designers will be there to supply this new demand for "dressing-up" that is inevitable I feel.

I like that...! as a designer myself i believe that an unique group of ppl in the world are starting to have this vision about fashion design. Its easy for us who are inside the industry to understand the marketing game involved but some consumers are blinded to what they think is stylish, pretty and "wereable" [a brainstorm related to marketing strategies.]
It makes really hard for designers with the organic talent to create something fresh and original to appear. But the revolution is approaching soon - Salvatore de la Moda- and to save who is bored with some of this uniformed crap we see out there...

[palais_de_tokyo]

Quote:

and honestly,in that vein you speak of,palais de tokyo,it just seems to me,people percieve the creative world as a group of outrageous,out of touch dynamics who only put on shows with no actual substance and that's simply not the case. for me i can love the quirkier aesthetics of bernhard as much as i can i dunno,the quieter,simpler works of branquinho or ackermann.

i don't know if i understood your post correctly, but i think you misunderstood me. i do appreciate the more (even if i don't appreciate that term in fashion) avantgarde designs a lot, but that does not at all mean, that i can not be very much intrigued by more down-to-the-base designs or stylings. on the contrary. i just think there wouldn't be the things we see in "down-to-the-base" design, if there had not been some avantgarde first.
that is my point.

and by the way - i don't think that there are actually any items that are really unwearable... (whereas i have to admit, that this might be true only to mens fashion, as i don't really follow the women's collections) having spent a lot of time in small towns and still dressing up was a part of daily fun. i completely disagree on the idea of localized fashion. you can pick more extravagant clothing in hohocus or springfield as well... it's a bit easier in paris, nyc or london. but in truth it's a choice from within...
(a little off topic - sorry)

[Scott]

^i was adding to what you were saying about how something may not look really special but once you put it one and wear it with something else,it can take on this new life. so in that,it makes me frustrated that some people misunderstand the more creative side as basically circus folk with no touch of reality.

[Multitudes]

Quote:

Originally Posted by telepathicgoat And personally, if there is a problem with new visionaries, I don't think there's room for them, because in the last couple of years everything has been focussed on indivuality and democracy in fashion. Again, take a look at all the blogs, all comments etc. EVERYTHING seems to be related to our private life. If it doesn't fit this way of thinking it's not good enough. (Maybe it's an American way of thinking, not sure) This society is all about consumption, consumption, consumption. There is no time anymore to get bedazzled by something we experience, if we don't get it served to fit our lifes....

This way of thinking is not bound to any nationality, the borders are gone,
the national state doesn't exist any more ...
it's a capitalist way of thinking!

But you are right though about subjectivity and so on ...

By the way I remember a similar thread ...

fashion now so boring

[palais_de_tokyo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott ^i was adding to what you were saying about how something may not look really special but once you put it one and wear it with something else,it can take on this new life. so in that,it makes me frustrated that some people misunderstand the more creative side as basically circus folk with no touch of reality.

oh - i get it - sorry then... i think we're on the same page there then...

[Paula Mattoso]

Play the game and be a contributor to blind consumism or have integrity to express your design ideas to the visionary, ecletic public. (my point of view as a designer) Wearing or desinging an outfit its a matter of expression more then walking in circle around famous brands/conglomerates that are killing fashion as an artistic expression. They have nothing original to show off but as marketing and fame pay the rules ppl seem so hypnotised by the glamour envolved instead of the creation itself. So at the end fashion designers are becoming stylists and originality is not important anymore. An outfit shouldnt be arranged to be wearable... its sad to hear that.

[Bidwell]

There is no social revolution to propel people to wear something radical.
All the six sleeved coats in the world will not change the way people dress if they don't want or have a reason to dress that way.
How many of us actually adorn ourselves with the most creatively wonderful clothes anyway? Not many I expect. The people that wear (and can afford) the most cutting edge of design is already a tiny niche. I have often found the most innovative people NEVER wear designer clothing but have done it themselves as pure expression.
You can't design for these creatives so you are left with the larger, more stagnant status searching market.
It's not just about the art.

[Paula Mattoso]

Oh yes it certanly a tiny niche...i know. The mass already has shown what they like

I have clients around the world that pay 3 times more to have something designed for their visionary point of view of Fashion. You are correct, its not only about the art as long as u sell ur products.

[fourboltmain]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bidwell There is no social revolution to propel people to wear something radical.

I feel music is a huge part of this. Look at style as an era, 50's, 60's, 70's; all of it conjures images of music and what people were listening to then. The last music revolution was spearheaded by Nirvana, and nobody has changed music like them since. They dragged us out of the 80's, and thank God it happened, but that was 17 years ago when Nevermind was released.

[baguette]

Designers need to pay their rent.
So they surrender.