[24hourteaparty]

I'll admit I did not read the whole thread , but ethical/fair trade is something I have been thinking about a lot lately.

I would really love if I could buy fair trade clothes, and I would pay more, since it would be worth more. But I wear plus sizes and I spent hours searching online the other night looking for “green” clothing in my size. I didn't find any.

And sadly most plus size clothes are made of the very not green polyester.

Another thing if the lack of stylish green clothes, which I think is an improving situation, since being green seems like a bit of a trend.

I have been trying to consume less, and only what I really love. Treat my clothes well so they last longer, and buy used when I can. Which I think is something most people can do. I think we really need to get away from fast fashion and the idea that everything is replaceable.

Anyway, I am gonna go back and read the rest of the thread.

[fashionista-ta]

^ Maybe buying green fabric & having things made for you would be an option

[24hourteaparty]

i had not considered that before. but i really should look into it. it would cost a lot of money but then again, it should. having a product made for you sounds sooo worth it.

and i have been trying to buy less since i think that is the most easy way to lower our impact on the planet.

thanks.

[fashionista-ta]

You should be able to find someone locally who's good and reasonable. You could also look at taking a class and learning to make some things yourself ...

Eileen Fisher makes plus size, and uses lots of organic and green fibers. Here's a link to what Nordstrom has, for example: http://shop.nordstrom.com/sr?keyword...edictiveSearch

[fashionista-ta]

The sustainability section of the Eileen Fisher website: http://www.eileenfisher.com/EileenFi...ainability.jsp

[YoninahAliza]

I was wondering what people think about sustainable clothing being made by highstreet brands. You know, by H&M and the like. Because on one hand I think it's quite cool to see them acknowledge that sustainable clothing is important but at the same time I feel like it's an oxymoron. Sustainable/ethical clothing and mass produced clothing don't really seem to go well together. I really want them to but seeing as H&M and several other companies have been cited for unethical treatment of workers and throwing out clothing that hasn't been bought it makes me think they need to fix those problems before they can try to make ethical/sustainable clothing. Or else it wont really be created for the reason's it should be. Only then will sustainable clothing created by highstreet brands be reflective on the ethical/sustainable values they are meant to project.

[fashionista-ta]

^ I see it as a bit like Wal-mart carrying organics. That's all nice and everything, and every little bit helps ... but I'm still not shopping there. In the case of Wal-mart, I need to see them fix the way they treat women. In the case of H&M, I need to believe I have a good chance of walking out with a quality product that's going to last. It's nice that they're doing some organic cotton & recycled polyester ... but they are adding to the problem faster than they're solving it, as far as I can tell.

[F0F0]

Quote:

Originally Posted by YoninahAliza I was wondering what people think about sustainable clothing being made by highstreet brands....

You have people who buy their ethical credentials and people that don't. In the UK women tend to be more "believers" whereas men show more cynical attitudes about this according to one study.

Ethical fashion/clothing is a broad term that can be subjected to too many interpretations: I'd say it depends on your definitions on what's ethical and what's not, or what better fits your own political agenda.

Ethical clothing is now part of the overall high-street retailer's corporate social responsibility (CSR) policies made to boast themselves as moral guardians/examples/leaders of the communities they sell to, but not caring too much about what happens in the factories they cheap-manufacture and exploit in. Insincerity and hypocrisy to say the least (see [URL="http://www.labourbehindthelabel.org"]http://www.labourbehindthelabel.org[/URL for more]).

But not only the big companies play in this game: Even small fashion ethical labels and designers engage on it.

Any fashion business or label that runs in the capitalism system participates in this rat race.

[fashionista-ta]

Quote:

Originally Posted by F0F0 You have people who buy their ethical credentials and people that don't. In the UK women tend to be more "believers" whereas men show more cynical attitudes about this according to one study. Ethical fashion/clothing is a broad term that can be subjected to too many interpretations: I'd say it depends on your definitions on what's ethical and what's not, or what better fits your own political agenda. Ethical clothing is now part of the overall high-street retailer's corporate social responsibility (CSR) policies made to boast themselves as moral guardians/examples/leaders of the communities they sell to, but not caring too much about what happens in the factories they cheap-manufacture and exploit in. Insincerity and hypocrisy to say the least (see [url="http://www.labourbehindthelabel.org"]http://www.labourbehindthelabel.org[/URL for more]). But not only the big companies play in this game: Even small fashion ethical labels and designers engage on it. Any fashion business or label that runs in the capitalism system participates in this rat race.

So the study found men are cynical, eh?

I find it a bit ludicrous to think that any business is by definition corrupt. I think there are plenty of examples around of how to make money the right way. The cynical will never find them though ...

I think those guilty of greenwashing (The Body Shop comes immediately to mind) should be hung higher than Walmart.

[YoninahAliza]

^What do you mean by greenwashing, sorry but I've never herd of the term before.

[fashionista-ta]

^ It's like whitewashing ... when a company pretends to be all green, but really isn't.

[YoninahAliza]

^Ah okay, that makes sense now. In that case I do understand what you mean- it's horrible how companies deceive the customer into thinking they are a green company but in reality they aren't. People often blindly follow adverts and companies without ever doing any research into how ethical a brand is. That's part of the problem I think, I mean often times the information is out there, people just don't bother to look. Or if they do see it they choose to ignore it. Which only continues the cycle of whitewashing.

Also, isn't the point of every business to make money? It wouldn't be a business if that wasn't the point, it would be a nonprofit. And just because they are capitalistic doesn't automatically make a business corrupt. I think that several examples exist of how to create a business correctly and still be ethically/morally sound. Not every business is that way, but I do think that more and more businesses are recognizing the importance of not just creating a product but giving something back too.

[fashionista-ta]

^ And sometimes you can actually be more effective as a business ... look at Rugmark.

[Eterna]

^But Rugmark is not a business, is only another certificate that ensures that children have not made a product, right?
Such certificates are great, but usually implies an increase of the price in the final product, because to get them they have to pay for them (for the procedures that involve not talking about anything corrupt).
And a product made in Germany or France likely is not made by children even without that certificate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by F0F0 [...] But not only the big companies play in this game: Even small fashion ethical labels and designers engage on it. Any fashion business or label that runs in the capitalism system participates in this rat race.

so true. Am I the only one who is surprised that there are sales at these fair trade stores?

Quote:

Originally Posted by fashionista-ta I find it a bit ludicrous to think that any business is by definition corrupt. .

agree, and for me it is also wrong to think that the big clothing stores (h&m, zara,...) are unethical and don't respect the rights of workers simply because their clothes are very cheap and sell a lot.
Course cases occur but are reported and punished and corrected; but sometimes it just means they are better businessmen than others who sell less or who have a similar product with a higher price

Quote:

Originally Posted by YoninahAliza I was wondering what people think about sustainable clothing being made by highstreet brands. You know, by H&M and the like.

for me it is a good thing. Means that it is an issue that people care, and if people buy more at H&M that kind of clothes than those without the label "fair trade", "organic"... H&M will have more of these products and may come to have all products of that type.
H&M wants to sell, and if the consumer demand for "fair trade" products, that's what they'll sell

[fashionista-ta]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eterna ^But Rugmark is not a business, is only another certificate that ensures that children have not made a product, right? Such certificates are great, but usually implies an increase of the price in the final product, because to get them they have to pay for them (for the procedures that involve not talking about anything corrupt). And a product made in Germany or France likely is not made by children even without that certificate. so true. Am I the only one who is surprised that there are sales at these fair trade stores? agree, and for me it is also wrong to think that the big clothing stores (h&m, zara,...) are unethical and don't respect the rights of workers simply because their clothes are very cheap and sell a lot. Course cases occur but are reported and punished and corrected; but sometimes it just means they are better businessmen than others who sell less or who have a similar product with a higher price for me it is a good thing. Means that it is an issue that people care, and if people buy more at H&M that kind of clothes than those without the label "fair trade", "organic"... H&M will have more of these products and may come to have all products of that type. H&M wants to sell, and if the consumer demand for "fair trade" products, that's what they'll sell

Yes, Rugmark is a certification. The woman who founded it was originally a volunteer. She saw the child labor problem associated with rug making, and decided that getting involved in the business was the way to fix the problem. She now owns a company as well. The way that Rugmark works is that when their inspections find child laborers, they take them out of the factory and **send them to school.**

Absolutely the price goes up when goods are manufactured in an ethical way. It costs more to pay people a living wage than to starve them, or to 'employ' slave labor.

What you say about H&M reminds me of someone I knew who was Muslim and called McDonald's to ask if the meat was hallal. When told yes, he went off happily to eat there. I guess people can believe whatever they want to But show me some evidence that H&M is doing things right in a consistent way ... that this isn't window dressing. Generally when the mass-market labels are doing things right, it's because they've been caught and slapped upside the head (hello, Nike). It's easy to go with the flow and do things the wrong way. It takes considerable effort to do things right.