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04-04-2007
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The firing of Anna Wintour will change a lot, I believe.
Well yes, in the US. But there are lots of other countries too.

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05-04-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteLinen
Well yes, in the US. But there are lots of other countries too.
Well, clearly, yes....but....I mean, you walk around Paris and you see people wearing cool designer stuff. When I was in Paris I saw several people wearing those infamous Balenciaga boots and also saw several of those amazing red leopard Louis Vuitton scarves. There are a lot of people there who will take something straight off the runway and incorporate it into their own style. In America, you see people wearing Abercrombie. Americans want wearibility, not creativity. The perfect example of this is on an episode of "My Super Sweet 16," a girl flew to Paris to buy her gown for her party. She went into all the high fashion stores and thought all of them were "really ugly." Instead, she went to a little boutique shop and bought a gown that she could have got at a Windsor in the mall.

Besides Anna Wintour, celebrities play a major part in the boringness of fashion in America. I mean, really. Everyone wears Versace on the red carpet (and I really do like Versace...), but I wish celebrities would branch out and push the boundries. When celebrities like Cate Blanchet, SJP and Ellen Pompeo wear Alexander McQueen, they get shot down by the tabloid magazines, and then some talentless starlet get an A+ because she wore a Versace gown. And that's why I really applaud Reese Witherspoon for doing this whole Nina Ricci, thing. Olivier was featured in People magazine! America needs to know who he is!

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05-04-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dior_couture1245
The firing of Anna Wintour will change a lot, I believe.
Oh I so agree! Yes, there are other countries, but I somehow get the sense that many designers are trying to please her these days. She's like a dictator bug or something (I don't know the proper word ). I believe without Anna present, the entire energy of fashion would totally shift. I think that celebrities and designers would be more of themselves while still being commercial. Then again, I could be wrong.

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05-04-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dior_couture1245
Americans want wearibility, not creativity. The perfect example of this is on an episode of "My Super Sweet 16," a girl flew to Paris to buy her gown for her party. She went into all the high fashion stores and thought all of them were "really ugly."
Is it possible that all the designer dresses were really ugly?

I think it's like the story of the emperor's new clothes. All the sophisticated, intelligent adults pretend to see the garments beauty style, and grace, while the little child cries "he's naked"

It's the same thing here. We are sophisticated (we think) and we want to be able to see more than the masses, or understand style in a different way. But
if it takes an in depth understanding of fashion in order to "get" a certain look, maybe we are just fooling ourselves. It's just cloths, there shouldn't have to be something to "get" Perhaps it takes someone unsophisticated and banal to point out to us what is obvious to anyone outside the "fashion circle".

To me fashion hasn't been getting more boring in the lst five-ish years, but has been getting less so- and in a bad way. Clothes have become more strange and unflattering and ugly in order to be considered cool.

perhaps we need to think- what would an unsophisticated, abercrombie clad midwesterner think of this dress? If they might say it looks like a burlap sack with electrical tape on it- then really- it probably does, and to try to wear something like that, is in my mind, simply an absurd ammount of pretentiousness

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05-04-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stilettogirl84

perhaps we need to think- what would an unsophisticated, abercrombie clad midwesterner think of this dress? If they might say it looks like a burlap sack with electrical tape on it- then really- it probably does, and to try to wear something like that, is in my mind, simply an absurd ammount of pretentiousness
I think fashion would be in a very bad and A&F-clad place if it was up to the white middle class America to decide what is good taste and what is not. And honestly, you kind of imply that we cannot think for ourselves and just blindly follow any silly editor's opinion on whatever...and we all know that is not true Different people have different preferences. And really...I don't care if some 16-year old girl thinks I look silly.

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05-04-2007
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I'm not suggesting that abercrombie is good-

I'm just saying that many times we become so immersed in fashion that we become blinded and we cease to have perspective. We may loose sight of what really looks good or bad because we a re so caught up in what's of the moment or cool

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05-04-2007
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i don't think clothes have to be BORING to be commercial
there's a lot of different markets out there

and definitely if more people (esp customers, critics) were in tune with the amount of work involved in the clothes...the design, the construction, the little details... and even studied and tried these themselves, like experienced making clothes from scratch themselves, they could see it's not so boring. there's always something to see
so, in a way i am saying this is all almost complete ignorance

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05-04-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zamb
I find your response to be somewhat unrealistic and vague.
there are no specifics in your respone.
to to reply to what you say.
again, if fashion is something to be worn, it is regulated by the anatomy,and therefore finite.
I felt like her response was realistic, and understandable. From where I stand, I understood what she was saying.

Fashion has regularly decided to outdo itself and not be regulated by anatomy. Did you hear about the stiletto heels that women were getting surgically-fitted for? What about some of Galliano's shows? Yikes.

It's not really regulated by anatomy. As long as the piece doesn't weigh more than the person wearing it, the fashion world has probably seen it.

As far as fashion being something to be worn-- innovative fashion has a way of becoming visionary, and therefore, unwearable. So to be wearable, one might have to fall (by logic) at least somewhat into the mainstream.

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06-04-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dior_couture1245
In America, you see people wearing Abercrombie. Americans want wearibility, not creativity. The perfect example of this is on an episode of "My Super Sweet 16," a girl flew to Paris to buy her gown for her party. She went into all the high fashion stores and thought all of them were "really ugly." Instead, she went to a little boutique shop and bought a gown that she could have got at a Windsor in the mall.
we're a very self-conscious people, especially here in california. we don't want wearibility. there are definately more wearable things that the tattered crap they have at abercrombie. we want what's popular, what everyone else will wear. if it's too creative, god forbid! no one else will be wearing it and everyone else will think you're weird. this is the mentality of too many people, and this is what is destroying fashion.

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06-04-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ms-nietzsche
we're a very self-conscious people, especially here in california. we don't want wearibility. there are definately more wearable things that the tattered crap they have at abercrombie. we want what's popular, what everyone else will wear. if it's too creative, god forbid! no one else will be wearing it and everyone else will think you're weird. this is the mentality of too many people, and this is what is destroying fashion.
I agree as well.

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06-04-2007
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I totally disagree!!! when you say fashion now is sooooo boring that I am sure your eyes are on some labels only. There are tones of young and talented designer showcase their works during fashion weeks. lots of them do not have the money to have catwalk and simplely be ignored or passed away by major press. working in the industry myself and I do feel pitty for those talented people fadded away and end up working for high street or being stylists. So, keep your eyes on different side of fashion world and you will find many interesting fashion every corner! Also, the true fashion lovers are supports whoever is talented and great designs no matter the label is HIP or not~~~ fashion is about personal style and creat your own look!!!

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07-04-2007
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I totally disagree!!! when you say fashion now is sooooo boring that I am sure your eyes are on some labels only. There are tones of young and talented designer showcase their works during fashion weeks. lots of them do not have the money to have catwalk and simplely be ignored or passed away by major press. working in the industry myself and I do feel pitty for those talented people fadded away and end up working for high street or being stylists. So, keep your eyes on different side of fashion world and you will find many interesting fashion every corner! Also, the true fashion lovers are supports whoever is talented and great designs no matter the label is HIP or not~~~ fashion is about personal style and creat your own look!!!
Most of the designers I am interested in these days are considered young and independent/small designers. However, I don't think many of them are so talented that they would be taking fashion design forward, and thus making it exciting again.

As so many of us are saying that the real, avant garde talent is found in smaller, independent labels, and say that people who think fashion is boring just keep their eyes on Dior, Chanel etc; can you please show me one of these new, innovative designers who is taking fashion forward or doing something completely out of the box (and btw, I didn't even bother to take a look at the F/W collections of Chanel and Dior)? You are talking about those talents all the time, but funnily enough, I have seen none. Bring some enlightment to me, please

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07-04-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stilettogirl84
Is it possible that all the designer dresses were really ugly?

I think it's like the story of the emperor's new clothes. All the sophisticated, intelligent adults pretend to see the garments beauty style, and grace, while the little child cries "he's naked"

It's the same thing here. We are sophisticated (we think) and we want to be able to see more than the masses, or understand style in a different way. But
if it takes an in depth understanding of fashion in order to "get" a certain look, maybe we are just fooling ourselves. It's just cloths, there shouldn't have to be something to "get" Perhaps it takes someone unsophisticated and banal to point out to us what is obvious to anyone outside the "fashion circle".

To me fashion hasn't been getting more boring in the lst five-ish years, but has been getting less so- and in a bad way. Clothes have become more strange and unflattering and ugly in order to be considered cool.

perhaps we need to think- what would an unsophisticated, abercrombie clad midwesterner think of this dress? If they might say it looks like a burlap sack with electrical tape on it- then really- it probably does, and to try to wear something like that, is in my mind, simply an absurd ammount of pretentiousness
I totally agree with everything you said here. The emphasis on "cool" instead of flattering clothes has gotten out of hand. A fashionista in impossibly high, ridiculously impractical heels seems to me to be just as much a fashion victim as a teenager in head-to-toe Abercrombie. As much as people berate the celebrity influence on fashion the fact remains that there are people on TFS clamoring to buy $600 t-shirts just because Mary-Kate and Ashley Olsen's name is attached to them.

When I peruse the fashion week threads I do feel very much like I'm one of the few who can see the emperor has no clothes. If the clothes are practical, wearable and flattering there are sure to be a chorus of "how boring." A designer presents unflattering shapes and odd mixtures of patterns and colors- "How fresh! How original!" The unilateral bashing of American designers on TFS who tend to make the most wearable clothes is as predictible as it is unfair. Clothes will never be boring to me as long as I can find something that makes me looks and feel great. If I want to see artistic flights of fantasy I will look at paintings and sculpture.

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07-04-2007
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^Like I said something interesting doesn't have to be as weird and unflattering as you mentioned. Maybe there is an interesting use of decoration or print in the clothes that keeps it from looking like every other clothing, like what we see sometimes in NY Fashion Week. The thing is, in this case I'm talking about DESIGN, which is supposed to be something aesthetically appealing and also functional and flattering to the wearer. If it looks like just another dress or shirt, then do you see what I am saying that there is really no design in it? There is not much thought in the design.

But I think what Whitelinen is pointing is out is something a little more complicated. She wants something to be completely new but doesn't know what it is. It's a little more rooted in her own aesthetics than general fashion, I think. What i see as maybe innovative may not be innovative by her terms.
You have to know nothing is completely new. An idea has to come from somewhere. Hussein Chalayan may be thought of as new, but he is just thinking of clothes that have more functions--he seems to be really interested in technology, in new fabrics and 'robots' 'machines' and things, so naturally the ideas will just blend together... it just so happens that it might be 'new'. Although surely this idea should be in existence already, like in film or theatre costumes... and especially fabric technology. It's just that he is applying it to ready-to-wear---actually, I wonder, does he even sell these more unusual designs of his? Like the hat that glows or the dress that turns from daywear to eveningwear. It's a little hard to wear, that dress, because it seems so stiff and made of maybe metal things...

Whitelinen I forgot to ask you, I wanted to know what you meant by this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitelinen
...I crave the time of Dior and Balenciaga to come back, or then something completely new.

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07-04-2007
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I would like that time come back, because I think then beautiful clothes were made and people understood why it is important to be well-dressed. There was grace and elegance at that time which we have now lost to vulgarity.

I don't think being innovative is in fact rooted in one's own terms. We know what has been done in the fashion history, and those are facts. If someone does something that hasn't been done in the fashion history - that's a fact and it's new.


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