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07-04-2007
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I see, so you weren't exactly referring to Dior or Balenciaga being innovative in their times. I do feel I get too much attention the way I'm dressed, although I don't dress in a crazy at all... in fact very normal, just dressed respectably lol

Anyway you seem to be searching for something really unseen before. When I think of innovation, it might be taking conventional concepts and design and turning them into a new or more personal way. That's what makes it new to me. The idea is what makes it new to me. When you compare it to something like the rest of fashion history, it sounds a bit hopeless and over romantic... a lot of time has gone by. If you want innovation, perhaps you should be looking at textiles instead.

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07-04-2007
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Ooh!! :p I have a good question

When has fashion ever been innovative ??????


I have to do my groceries now, but I shall be back later...

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07-04-2007
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^ Good question. Maybe when clothes were created

Quote:
If you want innovation, perhaps you should be looking at textiles instead.
Maybe. Oh I wish there would be more!

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07-04-2007
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I don't think fashion is boring anymore. if you look at it, fashion has leaked into the cyber age where people make different fashions for games and what not.

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07-04-2007
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Whitelinen Ok that probably happened a long, long, long, long time ago But you see it's difficult to come up with something in this or the last century.
What do you wish there would be more of?

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Maybe. Oh I wish there would be more!

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07-04-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deflyricist2006
I don't think fashion is boring anymore. if you look at it, fashion has leaked into the cyber age where people make different fashions for games and what not.
True, but unfortunately it has not contributed much to the evolution of real fashion....yet.

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sounds like "dirty European aristocracy".....

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07-04-2007
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^Maybe it will evolve in Japan first :p For one t hing you can already see the cartoons already have an influence on hairstyle. I guess it could happen in America too...anywhere where games and cartoons are popular

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07-04-2007
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I actually tried to think of a fashion concept that I would think of as original and it's extremely difficult. Everything original will eventually seem unoriginal once it becomes widely used. Who would have guessed that some of the silouettes that are common now would ever be so popular?

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07-04-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gius

When has fashion ever been innovative ??????
Maybe Saint Laurent's 'Le Smoking'? Is that innovative enough? I think it was really important in the history of fashion in that it was one of the most well-known examples of androgyny in women's clothing.

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08-04-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilaughead
Maybe Saint Laurent's 'Le Smoking'? Is that innovative enough? I think it was really important in the history of fashion in that it was one of the most well-known examples of androgyny in women's clothing.
Yes. I think in the 20th century, right up to 90's, they were always coming up with new trends. Not borrowed, not recycled, but new.

As for what I would want... Gius, I don't know. All I know is that I want something that will make me confused, as I cannot understand it because I have never seen anything like it. Something that makes me wonder. I guess I am looking for some kind of a revolution. But then again, that might be too idealistic.

I do have favourite designers from the fashion scene of today, and I don't think it is all boring, but it's not new either. I wouldn't spent this much time in a fashion forum unless I liked some of the modern design.

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08-04-2007
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^ Oh, no, that's not true. I'm not so familiar with the aspects of clothing throughout the times, but I can say the fabrics used for fashion (which is just as important) have all been influenced somehow by things of the past or other ideas, cultures.
Prints for fashion in the 60s was a revival of designs from Victorian times and Art Nouveau, and they were 'modernised' by intensifying the colours and curves to go with the contemporary culture.
And as well, prints for fashion in the times of Art Nouveau were inspired, for one thing, by Eastern cultures--that is why there is all this focus on keeping things flat and linear and with sweeping curves, a characteristic in for example Japanese woodblock prints. And also there was a focus on flora, which is seen in Middle Eastern cultures. One of the famous designers in this era, William Morris, had this whole ideal vision of 'bringing back the past' and also often used motifs inspired from art in the Middle Ages. He also had a bunch of other 'revolutionary' ideas, like blockprinting by hand on fabric, etc. By mixing all these ideas together, they just happened to create something fresh.

So, you can see it was all a revival then and it was just made to suit the people of their times. Tthis is exactly what a lot of designers are doing in present times. Last year, there was a trend in lace and you can't really pinpoint what period that was really from. Often when people think of lace, they might think of very intricate designs of maybe flowers, but in the Chloé collection, you can see lace designs of flowers so simplified in order to make them 'new' /contemporary. Even for fall '07, I noticed they had dresses of cutwork embroidery, but it was not really cutwork embroidery because they had got rid of all the 'heavy' things--(I'm not really going to go into detail about that)

Trends are much deeper than like 'a trend of sixties mod'--You can find some info here on how they develop. I don't have specific links but it's easy to search. Anyway, trend development is much like a science and there is a lot of research on attitudes of consumers and the economy. For one thing, for a few of the recent years, they say people were longing for happier times... and this you might say is what caused the rise in vintage styles. There was also a lot of use in nature-inspired motifs. Plus there is a rise in handcraft...and definitely I can't really link 'handcraft' to another time period.
So, the last thing I am going to say is, No one can say that everything has been done before unless they know exactly everything that has been done before.

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08-04-2007
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^And that brings out the question - is a new combination of two old things a new thing? And also - if newness is a criterion for good fashion and some designs are more recognizable than others, would that mean that an old design that is less recognizable (perhaps unremarkable) that is reproduced (or part of a new combination) is seen as superior to a new design that draws inspiration from a previous recognizable design? If you draw that to its conclusion, you will end up with designs that are nondescript in order to appear novel....something that I think happened in the mid 90s. That is when the retro trend started, well, right after the millennium in fact.


Last edited by iluvjeisa; 08-04-2007 at 03:03 AM.
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08-04-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gius
^ Oh, no, that's not true. I'm not so familiar with the aspects of clothing throughout the times, but I can say the fabrics used for fashion (which is just as important) have all been influenced somehow by things of the past or other ideas, cultures.
Prints for fashion in the 60s was a revival of designs from Victorian times and Art Nouveau, and they were 'modernised' by intensifying the colours and curves to go with the contemporary culture.
And as well, prints for fashion in the times of Art Nouveau were inspired, for one thing, by Eastern cultures--that is why there is all this focus on keeping things flat and linear and with sweeping curves, a characteristic in for example Japanese woodblock prints. And also there was a focus on flora, which is seen in Middle Eastern cultures. One of the famous designers in this era, William Morris, had this whole ideal vision of 'bringing back the past' and also often used motifs inspired from art in the Middle Ages. He also had a bunch of other 'revolutionary' ideas, like blockprinting by hand on fabric, etc. By mixing all these ideas together, they just happened to create something fresh.

So, you can see it was all a revival then and it was just made to suit the people of their times. Tthis is exactly what a lot of designers are doing in present times. Last year, there was a trend in lace and you can't really pinpoint what period that was really from. Often when people think of lace, they might think of very intricate designs of maybe flowers, but in the Chloé collection, you can see lace designs of flowers so simplified in order to make them 'new' /contemporary. Even for fall '07, I noticed they had dresses of cutwork embroidery, but it was not really cutwork embroidery because they had got rid of all the 'heavy' things--(I'm not really going to go into detail about that)

Trends are much deeper than like 'a trend of sixties mod'--You can find some info here on how they develop. I don't have specific links but it's easy to search. Anyway, trend development is much like a science and there is a lot of research on attitudes of consumers and the economy. For one thing, for a few of the recent years, they say people were longing for happier times... and this you might say is what caused the rise in vintage styles. There was also a lot of use in nature-inspired motifs. Plus there is a rise in handcraft...and definitely I can't really link 'handcraft' to another time period.
So, the last thing I am going to say is, No one can say that everything has been done before unless they know exactly everything that has been done before.
I think you are right. But still... for example, the miniskirt did not exist until the 60's, did it? There might have been miniskirts as undergarments, but they weren't used as actual skirts until 60's and Mary Quant? I am not sure if that's right, but I have always thought so.

Gius, you have a lot of insight on this subject, and you have gotten me to think differently about this subject Maybe I just need a different approach on looking at fashion... because nothing is completely new.

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08-04-2007
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I don't know much about the garment side, only the fashion fabrics. I guess as the whole aesthetic in the 60s changed to something super simple and geometric, it's only natural that the silhouette and length/etc of the garments would change too.

I have been wondering now that maybe people are unable to see something new because they're not really familiar with the subject they're talking about. They haven't experienced the craft themselves, like creating things themselves or studying the craft. Otherwise I'm sure they would be able to understand the kind of work that goes into designing and then producing the clothes.
So, I suppose the common consumer is not even aware of these aspects too...and they won't be able to appreciate something because they find it appears ordinary or because it's past their comfort zone, but perhaps if they knew more about clothes, they could actually see things. So this answers a bunch of ideas in this thread... There seem to be three ideas going on in this thread: there is the idea of fashion as design...and then fashion as the trends that change yearly, either high street or otherwise...and then I suppose there is the fashion that most people wear. And it's all affected by 'education' or ignorance...and also the fear of being laughed at and not being accepted (haha)

iluvjeisa I wish I could understand your point, especially the part about the 'nondescript and novel'. It sounds maybe good. I only get the first question. I think it is in how ideas have been used that makes something new.

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08-04-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iluvjeisa
If you draw that to its conclusion, you will end up with designs that are nondescript in order to appear novel....something that I think happened in the mid 90s. That is when the retro trend started, well, right after the millennium in fact.
Maybe retro is, in fact, the defining style for this decade? People looking back at the last century and reinterpreting it for this millenium? It sounds right, with all of the hype and events and things surrounding the year 2000 and the years immediately after it. Quite a poetic idea, too.

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