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20-09-2005
  31
flaunt the imperfection..
 
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yes zam...

all completely true......

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20-09-2005
  32
fashion insider
 
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I can pretty much echo Zamb, Faust (especially your first comment, exactly what I was thinking) and J'aime. The logo crap, the logo crap - that is boring. That is boring, that is our problem. I'm so glad that the people on TFS are so intellectual and so open-minded, not just into buying Dior because it's Dior.

We need to get rid of the crap. Crap is not 'designer', it's crap. Sorry I'm so informal..

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* "But it's not about t*ts and a$$, leave something to the f*****g imagination!" - Pastry of TFS ranting
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20-09-2005
  33
trendsetter
 
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Those are some good ideas, finalfashion.

Thanks, Johnny, I agree about the magazines and brands. By "mystique" I did not mean that fashion should be more unattainable though...I think it's wonderful that it's non-exclusive. I think we get bored because in this day and age we are bombarded with so many new clothes, images, trends and campaigns when we haven't even begun to appreciate last season's collections. We need time to digest and think about a wonderful meal; if we are being fed all day long, we'd get sick of eating.


Last edited by Melisande; 20-09-2005 at 09:34 PM.
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20-09-2005
  34
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Now all the major houses have their second, third, and fourth lines, every celebrity has their own brand, and as if that weren't enough, in addition to printemps/ete and automne/hiver we have the "cruise","resort",and whatnot collections...vintage...young and indies designers in the spotlight...and then the highstreet stores replicating all that and multiplying it by two, three...

It's just too much!

...I think it's too much business/greed/speed and not enough emphasis on quality and art. (As with anything.)

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20-09-2005
  35
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Hmm, interesting points made by many.

I agree with what Scott said about so many designers playing things very safe because of an obsession with commerciality ( I mean, when designers like McQueen and Galliano put basic, wearable clothes on their runways you know something is up).....in that way I think fashion lost a bit of it's magic, for me anyway. I mean, Galliano still uses his theatrics (as we saw in his last couture collection) but that heart-pounding excitement to see what's next isn't quite as present for me as it once was. I think designers need to shake things up. Safe is acceptable once in a while, but when it gets to the point where every designer's collection seems safe and neutral and totally unwilling to take a risk it is not a good thing at all.

Bottom line, I think fashion needs something to wake it up, just one designer who takes the safe, acceptable little rut so many designers have fallen into and rips it to very well tailored shreds. Something needs to shock me, just to keep things interesting.

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21-09-2005
  36
slightly dizzy
 
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I think Johnny and helena both nailed it, sort of. Fashion is really accessible and (over)exposed, the whole world seems obsessed. It's become more democratic in the sense that it is available to anyone, anywhere, which I happen to think is a good thing. The saturation makes labels and logos less interesting precisely because they're not "special" any more.

And at the same time we're flooded with more or less generic designer goods, it also gets more interesting to pick and choose and find stuff you really like. Maybe find lesser known designers. Search out things you truly enjoy and find beautiful instead of being transfixed by a certain designer label.

I think/hope fashion is in a transitional state atm.


Last edited by tott; 21-09-2005 at 12:06 AM.
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21-09-2005
  37
V.I.P.
 
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So it seems that one of the main problems here is that fashion is too accessible?

Well, what about people like me? Soreee, but if fashion was exclusive I would be deprived of something so great. Internet is just another way of communication, right? There is nothing criminal integrating it into runway fashion (times change and nostalgia may destroy you).

I say, let the images be available to the copyists! We are bright enough to know that a well-made piece of fashion cannot be compared to..crap.

Which brings me to my next point. Imo, there should be an understanding of what is good fashon and what is not. I am not going to say Dolce & Gabbana and Michael Kors make for good fashion! An I the only one who is so frustrated with 'pretty' clothes?! No soul, no personality in those little brocade jackets and such! Gosh, people suck! Because the people want these little brocade jackets, and even dare to think of them as good fashion!

Old news! Old f-----g news, my dear average, rich-esque, likes-circle-skirts-and-double-C's customer!!!

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21-09-2005
  38
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Fashion can NEVER be boring, my dears...it's the people who are becoming boring themselves, if they don't make the effort at being creative, experimental, expressive, and rely on the the big hype, big brands, big names and big magazines to tell them how to dress themselves - the new MUST-HAVES that everybody must have.

Look at the original way the people in the streets - the eccentric, the artistic, the rebellious, the activist with an axe to grind, the dreamer - all dress to express themselves. They have ways and the means to put it all together, and it's not Dior or Chanel, it's imagination. How can it ever be boring?

Don't ever lose sight of where it all comes from, and vote with your wallets.

Oh, and when in doubt, blame society!


Last edited by Zazie; 21-09-2005 at 07:52 AM.
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21-09-2005
  39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrinceOfCats
Hasn't it always been?
Boring yourself to death here, I presume?


Last edited by Zazie; 21-09-2005 at 07:54 AM.
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21-09-2005
  40
V.I.P.
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zazie
Fashion can NEVER be boring, my dears...it's the people who are becoming boring themselves, if they don't make the effort at being creative, experimental, expressive, and rely on the the big hype, big brands, big names and big magazines to tell them how to dress themselves - the new MUST-HAVES that everybody must have.

Look at the original way the people in the streets - the eccentric, the artistic, the rebellious, the activist with an axe to grind, the dreamer - all dress to express themselves. They have ways and the means to put it all together, and it's not Dior or Chanel, it's imagination. How can it ever be boring?

Don't ever lose sight of where it all comes from, and vote with your wallets.

Oh, and when in doubt, blame society!
Bravo Zazie!

And 'blame society'? Oh, am I even going to use that! hee..)

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21-09-2005
  41
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Thank you Pastry..may you always find inspiration.

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21-09-2005
  42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melisande
Now all the major houses have their second, third, and fourth lines, every celebrity has their own brand, and as if that weren't enough, in addition to printemps/ete and automne/hiver we have the "cruise","resort",and whatnot collections...vintage...young and indies designers in the spotlight...and then the highstreet stores replicating all that and multiplying it by two, three...

It's just too much!

...I think it's too much business/greed/speed and not enough emphasis on quality and art. (As with anything.)
It's like the .com bubble!!!

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21-09-2005
  43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finalfashion
This is something I believe in as well.

(though I don't agree that all designers should be registered as in couture because rules are so easily corrupted)

I think the idea of a fashion show, fashion weeks, and bi-yearly collections are outmoded convention.

Bi yearly collections:
Stores want new things every week - it gives their customers a reason to come in more often.
Ergo - fashion is fleeting because Fashion Is Boring. The fact that we get sick of our things and "want something new" gives fashion a reason to exist. The worst thing about fashion week is having to wait for months for it to come again. As fashion people we are always bored with the project we just worked on. I'm always asking "what's next?"

Fashion shows cost tons and tons of money and are fleeting - a years worth of work leads up to fifteen minutes for the designer? Only a few people get to see the show and the rest of us have to look of static, flash-card style pics?
Photo shoots are 100X better than fashion shows. Far less people to co-ordinate, more creative, more expressive, and more available to smaller designers.
I'm interested in Oscar De La Renta's trunk shows as a more engaging kind of "show". Rather than experiencing the show through the intermediary media the customers get to meet with the designer personally, actually touch and try on the clothing, and have a pleasant experience rather than the hyped-up circus fashion week has become. It's supposed to be about clothes, remember? This is another option for a small designer who wants to make certain, select people aware of (and inspired by) the story behind the clothes.

Certainly it is not all bad. And I look forward to fashion weeks every year and enjoy and learn from the good and the bad. It isn't boring at all!

Just some ideas.
Are you observing or prescribing? Because if you are prescribing, I'm with Melisande - that's a TERRIBLE way to view fashion. To me, the garment is far from fleeting - on contraire, I pick what I buy because I pay careful attention to it, downright to the last minute detail, and hope that they will last me for years and years to come (unless my aesthetical views change).

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21-09-2005
  44
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Zazie said it best.

the trends makes fashion boring. it makes things accessible and it doesn't help that you have magazines telling you wat to wear, telling you this is the it look.
one season ,preferably a spring one, all trend companies should decide not to send out any information and let designers decide completely void of direction what to put the consumer in next season it is then they would have to search for an original thought, an original cut, an original pattern.

why i would think that would be utter disaster? so many designers would sink and fail thereby producing things so far away from any believable past aesthetic. you would find yourself saying? WHAT THE HELL WERE THEY DOING ALL THESE YEARS?
oh and how could i forget wat would old navy, gap,etc. do when they can't find the lastest common fad to send into the mass markets.

At 1st i didn't understand the shelly fox collection and though minimalist in its own way which im all for cause im so tired of colour. (my eyes hurt everytime i see a print with flowers, bees, goats...watever.) i get the collection now and it is beautiful. that's the kind of designer you want to emulate looking for new way to cut, a new way to drape, a whole new aesthetic.

sometimes the runways cheapen fashion as was said before the photoshoots are more interesting. a new concept needs to be implemented. it so easy to get bored and with fashion you always want something new all... the... time.
i remember being completely and utterly bored of gypsy skirts and boho chic after seeing all the spring/summer '05 last year so when the hit the main market in '05 i wanted to poke out my eyes.

Innovation is the name of the game and the fashion world prides itself on the ability to be innovative. Then it should be innovative and start a revolution for the new generation forego commercial for avant-garde. sell individualism to the masses not copier-friendly.

fashion is not boring it is UNINSPIRED DUE TO COMMERCIALITY AND GREED.


Last edited by olivia tod; 21-09-2005 at 08:35 AM.
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21-09-2005
  45
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Hee...the very personification of society, Ms. Wintour, gets fingered for blame by the NYTimes... though I would ask if this isn't a case of the pot and the kettle, Ms Horyn. Plus, Chado Ralph Rucci is really, really ugly....

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/19/fa...19FASHION.html

Return to Practicality Begets Simple Elegance By CATHY HORYN
Published: September 19, 2005

.....
The desire to be knocked off your feet by fashion lurks everywhere. I wondered, though, as I boarded my own train for the hugely looming pleasures of home (the bath, the bed, the dog's warm breath), how many designers realize how deep that craving runs. If they did, they would have produced fewer but better clothes. They would have listened less to editors and more to themselves.

Editors have long given designers advice. During World War II, Diana Vreeland, then at Harper's Bazaar, encouraged a young designer named Mildred Orrick to pursue her idea of leotard-based dressing, and though, according to the fashion historian Caroline Rennolds Milbank, the credit went to Claire McCardell, whose company manufactured the style, Ms. Orrick achieved recognition of her own for simple but innovative sportswear, like floor-length cotton sundresses for evening.

Today, however, editors exert an influence not only through their magazines but also Web sites and endowment funds like the CFDA/Vogue Fund, which was initiated last year by Anna Wintour, the editor of Vogue, to give money and advice to young designers. Even my Lab wouldn't consider that a harmless alliance, and he tends to approve of everything.

But the best designers are independent ones, and in following Ms. Wintour's suggestion to show in the blank white space of the tents, Johnson Hartig and Cindy Green of Libertine unwittingly overexposed the label's design conceits, reducing vintage tulle skirts and jackets with crystal-beaded cobwebs to a one-liner. Ms. Wintour's best intentions on behalf of the American fashion industry have also led, perhaps unconsciously, to a style that could be called "pleasing Anna." Its most ubiquitous form this season is the chaste white dress (Derek Lam, Proenza Schouler), followed by rustling widow silks and Quaker hairdos seemingly transposed from a 19th-century daguerreotype (Vera Wang).

A consensus is fatal to fashion. It derails the train of innovative fashion that began in New York in the 1930's, with designers like Ms. McCardell and Elizabeth Hawes. As Ms. Milbank said in her comprehensive study, "New York Fashion" (Harry Abrams, 1989): "Practicality has always been an American trait, and an American dress can be considered less a work of art than a solution to a design problem. When solved well, elegance is the natural result."


Last edited by Zazie; 21-09-2005 at 09:07 AM.
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