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17-10-2009
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^ no, it's fine, I think it's a very new problem that stylists have to face.. the fact that streetstyle outfits have generated an insane degree of attention and celebrity treatment and for a field that doesn't rely on that but eventually might get benefited from such attention, I wonder what's going to happen to those who simply choose to keep on working and experimenting with garments in anonymity when some publications clearly favor those that do not (like Alt) or those who suddenly decide that dressing okay qualifies them as one and land jobs based on their personal style hype (Wasson) and then the observers who cut to the chase and just want to see street outfits, occasionally taking a look at their stories just to see what they're up to trend-wise (as it happens with Kate's work)?.
Panos seems to be keeping a balance so far, but I feel like there might be some struggle for lesser known, equally talented figures like Joanne Blades, McKimm or those who evidently just want to create instead of posing.

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17-10-2009
  17
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^I agree with you MP & wiw. I remember when we started this thread we had to hunt around quite a bit to finally find a picture to put in the 1st post... just so we could have a look at him!

I don't care what Panos wears on his feet... jak & jil bore the hell out of me. I'd rather see the focus on his work.

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17-10-2009
  18
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^ I don't really think the personal style of a lot of the editors is 'personal' anymore. They all seem intent on outdoing each other and wearing whatever is hot off the runways and most ostentatious, above all. The ones who have no desire to be photographed and fawned over are usually the ones who end up looking most stylish and intriguing, imo. It also shows in the quality of their work. When was the last time Alt or Roitfeld produced a noteworthy editorial? They're too consumed with their own hype to 'create' it seems.

Good pt. Mullet. A lot of beautiful work is being pushed to the back-burner and a lot of new and old talents aren't getting the dues they rightfully deserve. Panos will probably be photographed more frequently now but judging from the pics that have been posted thus far, he really seems far removed from all the hype and fairy dust, thankfully. Now if he were to start voluntarily posing and looking directly into the lens... the end would be near.

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17-10-2009
  19
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the fact that some stylists pose for the cameras doesn't make them worse in their job, i think. the problem is when their personal style gets more interesting. i think panos's work is enough interesting not to be outshined by the clothes he wears, and i also think that emmanuelle and carine dress very well but they're no anna dello russo, what i like about them is their elegance and a certain simplicity in their style, i don't see them as ostantatious, and i think carine's work is still good and not as egomaniac as alt's - sometimes quite predictable, and not as interesting as it used to be in the past, but it's still nice to see, imo. i just think that it's a bit too harsh to automatically undervalue someone's work just becuase that person doesn't reject the attention. if panos starts posing for the cameras i won't mind (which doesn't mean i want this to happen, because i don't really care for his style), as long as his work is still great.

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17-10-2009
  20
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^ I have to agree, ana. i think what we also forget sometimes is that perhaps the stylist themselves (and of course this is an assumption on my part because I do not know any of them..) enjoys at least a bit of the higher profile that comes these days with the streetstyle / blog phenomenon.. I know we are all so quick to criticise and feel that it is somehow an instant loss of credibility and an instant rise in ego, but the truth is not only that their work shouldn't really suffer even if they are being photographed as ana mentioned, but also that if anything this recent craze with the personal style of stylists has increased their profiles in a positive sense.. even here on tfs, for example, we madly list credits of as many influences as we can in an editorial.. stylists, assistants, hair and makeup.. and i think for the industry, and for the stylist who was often shoved behind the scenes and perhaps appreciated less by the general public, it is now time to be able to step forward a bit and be applauded for doing work within the industry that it's so easy to assume is just an effortless, intrinsic part of the looks and the stories. Good styling is hard and sometimes the best styling goes unnoticed in the sense that the whole package increases in beauty without the viewer necessarily knowing why.. until we understand the skill that goes into what they do, which I think is being appreciated far more now.

Having said that, of course there is an extreme.. and i do agree unfortunately that someone like Emmanuelle Alt seems to have blurred so many lines between personal style and professional styling that it does seem like a detriment to the styling profession and particularly to her own work. and of course there are some stylists who will want to shy away altogether from their personal profile (perhaps Panos is one of these..) and instead have things remain with styling the focus and their own personal style irrelevant. Still, i don't know why there isn't room for both.. if Alt enjoys being photographed and is happy to play that game, why not?. in some sense she should be applauded for having such a persistent vision of her own style that it cannot help but infiltrate her work, i think. i don't know if it's necessarily ego maniacal of her. And so too if someone like Panos would rather not be photographed, that should be respected too. [though i have to say this argument of dressing being so 'personal' that one doesn't want to give it away is problematic I think.. dressing can be creative and expressive, absolutely, but i think we must not forget it is also highly practical.. most of us need to be sheltered and warmed by clothes and once we step out of our front door, part of that creative process instantly becomes public. that's inevitable..]

Sorry for the rant.. it's a very interesting subject though, imo, this current issue we have with the internet / blogs etc..

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17-10-2009
  21
a hymn to darkness
 
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Thanks for your posts, Adorefaith and Ana...
The minds behind the magazines, runway shows, editorials, advertisements, etc. being brought to the forefront is perfectly fine in my book. It is nice that people are finally seeing the substantial amounts of time, effort, creativity, passion, and patience that go into the world of fashion. That's actually the point of the pt. of Behind the Lens. To highlight those who create these mesmerizing pictorials (as well as other vital tasks) month after month. Oddly enough, the general mood has significantly shifted here @ tfs. A few years ago, the only aspects most ppl cared about were the model(s) and designer(s) used to create the editorials/images. Not many cared to know the photogs, make-up artists, stylists, etc. behind the works as well. It was as if the model was solely responsible for outcome of an image - whether it be aesthetically pleasing or not. Now stylists are all the rage, though not due to their work as stylists, but due to what they're wearing during fashion week. The attention many of these stylists are receiving is definitely increasing their profiles as fashion personalities and purveyors of 'good taste', though it hardly ever highlights their strengths are stylists. It is a rarity to go into any of their threads and find someone who is genuinely interested in discussing Roitfeld's newest editorial rather than her newest pair of Givenchy's. And that is perfectly fine as well; different strokes for different folks, but as Mullet already pointed out, hype and increased amounts of public interest tends to eliminate those who either aren't interested in garnering that type of attn or haven't even been given a chance to prove themselves. It's just sad that their personal style manages to outshine a medium that is so broad and limitless. Styling is a blank canvas where anything goes. Whereas an outfit can only be pushed so far before it becomes more cumbersome than beautiful/interesting. Idk, I guess if we've seen every trick you've got up your sleeve thanks to endless amounts of street-style photos and runway shows alike, what else is really left?

This is such an interesting topic. I would love to read more views on it...

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17-10-2009
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yes, I don't think a decrease of quality, integrity or deformation of a stylist's work is particularly worrisome, not for me anyway, I still think a level of harmony can easily be reached, Kate Lanphear's work is an example as she's yet to make tributes of herself in magazines and seems to invest the same amount of time on the table as she does in front of the mirror, her work is still not my cup of tea and her personal style might as well be more engaging at times but I don't think she's particularly lost 'it', nor I think Della Russo is failing at Vogue Nippon, more the opposite, but I still wonder how many of her followers know what she's doing there and how she's improved the direction of the magazine.
What concerns me is the way the attention and the job of a stylist is being redirected towards a path that takes us away from the focus and the charm of the profession, the fact that we're not entirely satisfied just to see their stories and feel the need to see the person 'out there', like his heart and vision (excuse the cheesiness) isn't out there enough in the pages, conveyed in an fictional outlet with clearly more freedom and room for imagination than a street in the modern world.
I guess it's an argument that can be easily classified as snobbery, the fact that some of us might find it disheartening how celebrity manages to place the art of someone into a box and keep it there to focus on the practical and the mundane as the effect is immediate, easier and accessible, 'ready to wear' for lack of a better term.. but even if a stylist relies on the inescapable practicality of clothes to express themselves (just like someone like Odile Gilbert does on hair yet she's not 'out there' showing what happened to her hair that day), I still think the work of some of them is precisely to inspire the contrary of what streetstyle-celebrity (not photography, mind you) evokes, it's raw inspiration and in Panos' case, a poetry that translates untouched into the viewer's mind and accommodates in a way that makes you feel more confident about your individuality and willing to take it out instead of hiding it behind your enthusiast over someone else's clothes, showcased as the pattern to follow that specific time/season. I suppose this last thing is now deviating me towards my aversion for 'get the look' Bazaar/Vogue eds, so I'll stop.

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18-10-2009
  23
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just to clarify something i said, because i don't want to make 'unfair' comparisons, when i mentioned dello russo, comparing her to alt and roitfeld, i was talking stylewise - her style is a bit over the top, on the borderline between quirky and fashion-victim (for the lack of a better expression), and attracts a lot of attention, and, as MulletProof said, many people get interested only in this 'side' of her and don't really know very much about her work, which is a pity, because she ends up passing for a fashion week character rather than a serious (again, bad word) magazine editor.
i do think, though, that the excess of exposure can be detrimental for our perception of their work - i mean, it's not that they start lacking creativity as they get exposed, but sometimes, when we don't know very much about the person, we can read more into his/her work, and once we start having more and more information about him/her, we can't simply ignore it, and all this information becomes kind of a "barrier" to our appreciation since we are now relating the work to a person, and not just considering the work itself. it's not that they do in their work what they do in front of their mirror, but the exposure is inevitably revealing and sometimes it's better when we don't have access to so much (personal) information...
ugh sorry for my digression, i'm not sure if i'm being clear/making sense, but it's the first time i'm getting into a discussion about this subject and really thinking about it, so all the ideas keep coming as i write.

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18-10-2009
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so far it seems that he isn't trying to join the likes of carine, emanuelle, anna etc and become a stylist/celebrity as almost all shots we've had of him lately are candid snaps where he isn't posing for the camera and doesn't seem aware that he is being photographed. but even these few pictures have created a larger dialogue on this thread than some of his editorials, which kinda shows us that fashion seems to be going down that reality show nightmare. it may be that as mma said, pics of him were hard to come by, and yes it's good to see he's not a sweater and jeans guy, but it'd be sad if this thread goes down that route.

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18-10-2009
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wow! what amazing (and necessary) conversation happening in here. I haven't checked the thread in a couple days because of the same reason that's being discussed... fearing I'd open it only to find a streetstyle detail shot of something gold and studded.

in the beginning, it was hard to even find photos of his work, then more started to show up... each time the thread would get bumped, it was a delight. now it is just street photos of panos for the most part, and as MulletProof said, when this happens.. the focus becomes less on the person's work and more toward them being yet another "personal style icon" or whatever, for everyone to obsess over. so in the end it is a discredit to people who are actually creative and unfortunate to the fans of their actual work.

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18-10-2009
  26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inaya View Post
wow! what amazing (and necessary) conversation happening in here. I haven't checked the thread in a couple days because of the same reason that's being discussed... fearing I'd open it only to find a streetstyle detail shot of something gold and studded.

in the beginning, it was hard to even find photos of his work, then more started to show up... each time the thread would get bumped, it was a delight. now it is just street photos of panos for the most part, and as MulletProof said, when this happens.. the focus becomes less on the person's work and more toward them being yet another "personal style icon" or whatever, for everyone to obsess over. so in the end it is a discredit to people who are actually creative and unfortunate to the fans of their actual work.
I def agree and see where everyone is coming from, there are for sure more photos of Carine/Emmanuelle/Kate showcasing their style than there is of their work in their threads, however with all of the coverage that surrounds fashion week, it would be hard to avoid the photographers and fans for that matter. I don't think that the photos discredit those that are creative as it does draw an interest. As for their fans, I'm sure people won't stop looking at their work because they are having their photo taken. Yes, it may take away some of the allure behind the work they produce, but I don't see this ending anytime soon. On another note, all of this exposure does leave room for other people to discover their work and become fans all on their own. Whether or not it is through a pic of their shoes is irrelevant imo.

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18-10-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by girlalamode View Post
This summer I interned at Louise Goldin and I was lucky enough to work alongside Panos. I found out that it was Panos' idea for Louise's A/W09 colour palette to be all in black (amazing) and the Gianni Versace 80's ads to be the Spring/summer colour palette. Panos was a genius and a gentleman and totally not what I expected. He was humble and not in any way full of himself.
Thanks for sharing, girlalamode, sounds like some amazing opportunity and your pictures capture the creative atmosphere and hard work.

Some small comment about the discussion we're having: a lot of people do stop looking at their work, their editorial work is an extra that's not necessarily missed, a fact quite evident in Alt or Carine's thread. I'm not sure anyone's arguing a devaluation of quality in their work by being in the spotlight, but more the attention they receive, the fact that people might just want to come out of an interest for their outfits rather than work.

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18-10-2009
  28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MulletProof View Post
Thanks for sharing, girlalamode, sounds like some amazing opportunity and your pictures capture the creative atmosphere and hard work.

Some small comment about the discussion we're having: a lot of people do stop looking at their work, their editorial work is an extra that's not necessarily missed, a fact quite evident in Alt or Carine's thread. I'm not sure anyone's arguing a devaluation of quality in their work by being in the spotlight, but more the attention they receive, the fact that people might just want to come out of an interest for their outfits rather than work.
Mullet, you really think people stop looking at their work ? I see it more as a case of those who are being drawn to a stylist because of their personal style (eg. Alt or Carine) being the ones who don't necessarily pay attention to their work. I see there being 3 possibilities here, generally speaking.. firstly, those who already appreciate a stylists' work (eg. those of us here in Panos' thread, for example, who were drawn here because of his work before pictures of his personal style started to become available..) and who, at the same time, are largely disinterested in the personal style or 'celebrity' of the stylist (or at least would like to keep these two things distinctly separate). Then, secondly, those who are interested mainly in a stylist as another expression of personal streetstyle.. in which case, lets say, a new crowd of people are drawn to this thread to see displays of Panos' daily style choices (I'm using Panos as an example simply because we're in his thread already). Lets say these people are just here to see the latest shoe he's wearing, or how he does his hair, and don't care less about his work....okay. Thirdly, those who are drawn here because of his personal style as he may or may not begin to develop a 'celebrity' status.. and who, in doing so, start to look at his work.... in which case this is a positive thing, no matter how they arrived here...no?

I just don't see the first category of people....those who are interested in his work and choices as a stylist...as being the kind of people who will suddenly stop paying attention to his work because he is being photographed. that would be fickle and senseless. Sure, people who respect the craft of what he does may be upset to see a sudden shift in focus to what he is wearing everyday, but surely these people won't stop paying attention to his work... that wouldn't make sense, as it is his work they wish to keep the focus on. so I'm left wondering.....who is going to stop looking at their work ? People may not look in the first place, or people may look at it as a secondary interest (sad, I agree), but I don't think anyone will look and then stop looking simply because the stylist is becoming an icon of personal style.

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Last edited by adorefaith; 18-10-2009 at 10:34 PM.
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18-10-2009
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Stop was probably not the best word, adore, I didn't feel like elaborating much this morning but I was exactly referring to the second group of people you mentioned. So yeah, they don't stop because they didn't even start to look at it.

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18-10-2009
  30
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^Exactly... because when you make a post in certain threads about their work it most always gets completely ignored.

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