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29-06-2010
  46
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^ I'm not sure I agree completely - for me it would come down to probably an equally simple matter, recreation or inspiration.
There are people that look at stories with the purpose of finding inspiration and integrate the ideas and experiments of an editor into their own personal style, regardless of how similar or different their vision is in comparison to what they're looking at in those pages.
Then you have the people that need ready-to-go ideas, not necessarily for a special occasion but use fashion to recreate, maybe imitate and to be 'up to date'.

In that same way I see those divisions, I see stylists.. there are stylists whose personal style is part of the package or the package, they bring it on everything they touch and encourage people to recreate it perhaps hoping it expands and becomes a trend, which makes them accumulate more prestige I would guess.. it doesn't matter if they're on assignment or out on the street, the formula is unmodifiable.. they are what they sell and their image is their work.
I could think of a couple of editors that do this, that create little replicas of themselves whenever they stop posing and work, mainly Emanuelle Alt and Camille Bidault.. Alt wasn't always like this but I guess she realised it was a very productive outlet.

Camille | Camille's work.
camille1.jpgcamille2.jpg
[purple-diary/scan by MissMagAddict]

Emanuelle Alt


.. her work.

[rdujour/amorepace at wordpress/herfamedgoodlooks/style.com]

And then you have people that deliver balanced imagery, with clear influences of their own taste (I think it's impossible to detach yourself completely from your work), but focused on art and elements that create a narrative and allows you to find your own interpretation of the story.. it impacts the viewer almost with an assignment to externalise that inspiration through their own vocabulary.. and their personal image isn't really tied to their creations.

Joanne Blades



Her work..

[models.com/scans by a.t.]

Robbie Spencer
robbiespencer.jpg

.. his work.
spenc1.jpgspenc2.jpgspenc3.jpg
[glamcanyon/dazeddigital/carlottamanaigo]

Of course these are extremes and both groups are in completely different stances to the point it's almost unfair to compare, it sort of reminds me of the why don't designers wear their own designs dilemma. What irritates me a little is that the first group, through their much emphasized celebrity and sporadic work, promote imitation in a field that should ideally (as in the second example) be more liberating and creative and encouraging of individuality precisely because, even if it's on Vogue, it's still on a page and completely about a subjective visual interpretation, it shouldn't command, it should invite..

Again, it's probably very naive of me to expect things to be too creative and for some to abstain from capitalising on a gold mine when 'The must-haves of the season' spreads are already an institution, I just hope that the images that awe you and provoke something through their uniqueness, storytelling and sometimes bravery to the point you want to rip off the page, hang on a wall and keep them there for years don't become a thing of the past eventually, as stylists find themselves in reduced rooms to showcase their creativity and are replaced completely by those that are more about what's in, what's out and other strict rules (see Della Russo above!), instead of showing how exciting it can be to step out of them and perpetuate all these incentives that prolong the inspiration and celebration of your own individuality.

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29-06-2010
  47
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yeah---
i see what you're getting at mullet...

but i think that if you spoke to ANY stylist...
and if they really were being honest--with you and with themselves---
they would all tell you that every picture that they style is a picture of themselves...
it is some aspect of their own personality...something that they love...
even if they are not physically in the picture...
it is still a picture of 'who they are'...

i do think you are right when you say that you cannot separate yourself from your work...
and in these circumstances...it's even harder...
you live, eat and breathe it every single day...

a lot of stylists will dress a certain way during a certain shoot...
ie- nautically inpsired while working on a nautical story...
it may be really conspicuous or it could just as well be very subtle...
but they all do it...
if you happen to know what they are working on at the moment and you look closely...
you can always see the influences...
it's one of the games i play with myself...
i look at them and try to guess what they are working on/thinking about...


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29-06-2010
  48
flaunt the imperfection..
 
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and as far as anna dello russo goes...
she's not a stylist, right?...
she's like - creative director or fashion director or whatever...




she hires stylists and assigns photographers...etc...
but i don't think she styles anything...
except herself...

THANK GOD!!!...

...

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Last edited by softgrey; 29-06-2010 at 09:41 PM.
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30-06-2010
  49
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softie... she does do some styling, here are a couple of things I found in her thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by a.t. View Post



Vogue Nippon,2009 Feb




"TOP OF WORLD"
PHOTOGRAPHED BY GIAMPAOLO SGURA
STYLED BY ANNA DELLO RUSSO
MAKEUP BY JESSICA NEDZA
HAIR BY FRANCO GOBBI









SCANNED BY ME

Quote:
Originally Posted by FashionPower View Post
latest Vogue Japan cover styled by Anna

twitter

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30-06-2010
  50
flaunt the imperfection..
 
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thanks JJ...interesting...
i wasn't aware of that...
she's not done anything in the issues of vogue nippon that i personally own or have seen...

interesting indeed...
they look just like her!...
...

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03-07-2010
  51
clever ain't wise
 
iluvjeisa's Avatar
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by softgrey View Post
yeah---

but i think that if you spoke to ANY stylist...
and if they really were being honest--with you and with themselves---
they would all tell you that every picture that they style is a picture of themselves...
it is some aspect of their own personality...something that they love...
even if they are not physically in the picture...
it is still a picture of 'who they are'...

i do think you are right when you say that you cannot separate yourself from your work...
and in these circumstances...it's even harder...
you live, eat and breathe it every single day...
Yeah, you would hope that someone could see the beauty in something that is different than themselves but I guess that has become an exceedingly rare quality...that is the problem with "the stylist celebrity"....if it's someone who dresses the way Isabella Blow did, that's an entirely different story, then it's passionate and interesting, not chosen because it flatters their particular figure. But a lot of the celeb stylists only seem to pick whatever flatters their figure and go with that. That is truly boring.

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04-07-2010
  52
flaunt the imperfection..
 
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wait a minute ilj---
CELEB stylists have NOTHING to do with FASHION stylists and editors...

and the title of the thread specifies FASHION...

the stylist who dresses celebs is supposed to do exactly what you said...
basically, make the celeb look good..

the fashion stylist is doing magazine editorials which are a form of creative expression, etc...
and ---as everyone always says...
fashion is a fantastic form of personal expression...
so it only makes sense that the stylists would be expressing themselves...and their personal point of view...with their stories...
I think that a lot of times the stories are their only outlet though...
because if you look at stylists who work like crazy-
like grace coddington or tonne goodman...
they just wear basic tops and pants...
very practical stuff...
cause they are too busy thinking about work and the story they are doing to think about what to wear...

i think that's often the case actually...
not always...but often..

i mean..look at the French vogue group of editors...
they are always 'dressed'...
but they always look the same...
they have a sort of 'uniform'...
which makes sense and makes it easy to get dressed every day...
no thinking necessary...
just pull on a tight mini, leather jacket, sky high heels and GO...

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04-07-2010
  53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by softgrey View Post
wait a minute ilj---
CELEB stylists have NOTHING to do with FASHION stylists and editors...

and the title of the thread specifies FASHION...

the stylist who dresses celebs is supposed to do exactly what you said...
basically, make the celeb look good..

the fashion stylist is doing magazine editorials which are a form of creative expression, etc...
and ---as everyone always says...
fashion is a fantastic form of personal expression...
so it only makes sense that the stylists would be expressing themselves...and their personal point of view...with their stories...
I think that a lot of times the stories are their only outlet though...
because if you look at stylists who work like crazy-
like grace coddington or tonne goodman...
they just wear basic tops and pants...
very practical stuff...
cause they are too busy thinking about work and the story they are doing to think about what to wear...

I was thinking of the stylist who is a celebrity, not a stylist who styles celebrities.

Yes, fashion is a form of personal expression - and it is also a way to make yourself seem more interesting than you are by wearing clothes associated with remarkable people. A lot of the time all people can express is the will to be seen, the will to seem interesting....not the infatuation with the clothing/art.

But now I'm going off topic, really.

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04-07-2010
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flaunt the imperfection..
 
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oooh..
but it's a good topic for the personal style section...!!!...
:p

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Last edited by softgrey; 04-07-2010 at 12:02 PM.
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04-07-2010
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I was once a stylist for a short time at a fashion magazine, and tbh, I hated dressing up then, as my mind was full of images of what I wanted to see in an ed, the storyboard, the narrative, the light, the mood, the models, the textures, getting smaller designers to custom make something you desperately want in the picture or DIY yourself,....there is SO MUCH. I just wore black jeans (I owned 10 pairs) and either a white or black t, with a jacket/blazer/coat plus flats all the time, zero jewelry except for ear studs, while the editorials were getting more and more elaborate. I cannot imagine how stylists can spend so much time on their own outfits when there are tons of things to do in preparation for the shoot and then the actual shoot itself as the mind is often saturated with both details and the overall picture that you must never lose. As a perfectionist, you obsess over every polaroid, frustrated that what you are getting isn't the "picture" in your head, wondering why and how it can get closer without offending the photographer, makeup artists, models, agitated by the time, etc.... You're just exhausted, mentally and physically. You just don't really care too much about your own style as your work is where you have channeled all your energy. You live on staples, the Japanese, the Belgiums, you streamline yourself even though you're given loads of "stuff", you try not to go to the PR parties, knowing that they're all super nice to you because it costs them $$$$$ to pay for ads and getting featured in an editorial is a bonus, etc., fashion shows are a pain except for the more interesting designers, there is so much cr*p out there, and you're sometimes forced to use them as you're pressured by the magazines' sales dept., etc...

I would say I'd personally only wear 10% of the clothing items I used in the eds, I can think up fantastical tableaux that suit the particular style/story/season but which I will personally NEVER wear. I can fully appreciate designers whose designs do not suit me, but are wonderful pieces of art in their own right, despite my own preferences. You've got to separate your personal style from your work, both come from your person, but from different places. You need to be passionate about your likes but also be able to be objective to a certain degree and project away from yourself to other peoples, situations or events around you.

I think the elaborately outfitted stylists who are photographed everywhere in expensive outfits aren't "real" stylists, but function more like PR for their magazines, like my senior editors. They were bitchy, did very little actual styling but lots of "business" meetings, vetoed my spreads since they were "in charge" even though they were unimaginative and cared little for the work, fortunately, I was left lone as long as the readers liked the eds. As a real job, it's really thankless and limiting after a while, even though I'd love to do it again as a one-off, missed the creative energy.


Last edited by Zazie; 04-07-2010 at 01:13 PM.
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04-07-2010
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So, without getting too in-depth, because I know I'm not the one with personal experience in this department, some of this thinking seems a little backwards. True, there are a few stylists out there that pay more attention to their wardrobe than their editorials, but are we seriously devaluing personal style even inside the fashion industry of all places?

This is exactly how stylish women are treated in business and politics. Can't someone be both a hard worker and have their own sense of personal style, however flamboyant? I'm failing to see how we can't take people who step outside of the box seriously. In this case, the "box" is dressing as a standard issue creative-type. Is someone really a better worker because they put less creativity into their clothes? And if so, why even bother caring about clothes in the least if fashion itself is apparently just a distraction?

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04-07-2010
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It has nothing to do with women and their style, it has more to do with the fact that these are "fashion" people. It is different when a person is in a powerful position in fashion and dressing up like a fashionista, you're doing a lot with what you wear, you're signaling something about the fashion you support, you're intimidating to others who are not your "style". You're supposed to be above "fashion", since you're suppose to know ALOT about fashion. It's better to be discreet, and not declare your position. This is of course my own preference and opinion, obviously, a lot of editors cultivate a very upfront style about themselves.

Something similar would be if you're a female judge and you are very open about certain aspects of laws and politics you support, when you should refrain from expressing an overt opinion. I mean, she can wear anything she wants, all pink 100% if that's what she likes, but she really shouldn't be someone with strong opinions about subjects that could arise in a case before her. To me, it is all profession specific.


I also find a lot of the flaunting distasteful, there is a fine line between a type of eccentricity, eg. Blow, and an attention-seeking fashion victim, you know those, right? I'm not going to name names!


Last edited by Zazie; 04-07-2010 at 01:43 PM.
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04-07-2010
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Also, for me, the work of styling was extremely exhausting. It is perhaps like a chef who cooks elaborate meals and simply wants to sit down with an uncomplicated soup at the end of the day from the fatigue and sensory overload. She might be capable of Michellin stars meals, but may choose very simply for herself.

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04-07-2010
  59
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i don't necessarily mind when stylists put a bit of themselves in what they do because it's always what's about swimming round in your head but it's just when it becomes a bit too obvious or blatant it sort of takes away from the point of styling the first place. styling is quite often about narratives and much of the time takes quite a bit of imagination and experimentation so if you're only using yourself in your skinny jean blah,then where's the styling in that? that's boring to me.

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04-07-2010
  60
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I don't mind if an editor or a stylist wants to dress up. That's their choice. What bothers me is that people seem to have more interest in an editor's personal style than in their work.

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