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04-07-2010
  61
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luckyme's Avatar
 
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zazie, you are really bringing it to the table. i appreciate you so capably stating your point of view and have heard those same thoughts from other stylists in the business. you work so hard to capture the "picture", under incredible pressure and with personnel that can be difficult in the best of situations. you create glamour but who has time to be glamorous under those circumstances.

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05-07-2010
  62
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Zazie's Avatar
 
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Thank you luckyme. Unless I had a plan to "move up" the magazine corporate ladder and join the "politics", it was ultimately an exhausting and dead end job, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone unless they feel that as some kind of higher calling and they love air-kissing the same crowd for years.

Scott, I wasn't trying to be boring, I just ended up this way. The job was literally non-stop "shopping", for the eds, and you really don't want to buy anything after that except for staples, you need clothes you can move all day in, and you care about not taking a particular "position" fashionwise. I'd feel very wrong to pick a favourite, eg. Balmain, and almost "promote" him/her. I guess a lot of the not-so-photographed-more-boring stylists are the same way - the less known about what they personally wear, the better. It's to keep a kind of blank canvas so it doesn't limit what you will work with, which can then comfortably veer from severe monastic to neon urban in your shoots, without feeling any incoherence.

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05-07-2010
  63
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softgrey's Avatar
 
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lucky---are you talking about me?!...
......


i agree about the comfortable thing zazie...completely...
comfortable doesn't have to be so basic though and devoid of style, imo...
i guess i have my own version of a uniform...
but not jeans and t-shirts...
cause i don't even think that's comfortable enough...
...
* though i can feel myself getting lazier and heading in that direction...
.........

one good thing about being freelance is that you can actually make a statement about what you like and who you support with your wardrobe without any sort of repercussions...
so, that's cool...i like that...
i think that a lot of freelancers are the kookier dressers at the shows...


and this all just makes me want to dress up even more when i go out at night...
when no one is looking and i can really just be myself...
because, ultimately....
i just love clothes and i like dressing up...!



Quote:
it was ultimately an exhausting and dead end job, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone unless they feel that as some kind of higher calling and they love air-kissing the same crowd for years.
agreed...
though it seems that you are still passionate about fashion...
it's like a drug, right?...
:p

just a question...
how did you escape and how do you dress now?

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Last edited by softgrey; 05-07-2010 at 09:49 AM.
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05-07-2010
  64
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Zazie's Avatar
 
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Softgrey, so glad to know you loved it as a stylist too. I do suspect it sometimes as the more critical comments come from stylists and buyers - we cruelly pick every detail apart, and if they stand up to our merciless scrutiny, that's GREAT design work. It has to be pretty special to make it to the shoot/floor, heads and shoulders above everything else.

How did you pick your items? Do you have favourite designers? Unfortunately, I disliked the offering from the big advertisers....

I was sorta exaggerating about the t-shirt n jeans, ok, not the jeans as they were fitted but very worn, very soft, I can turn cartwheels in them, but paired with Japanese/Belgium shirts and tops, the usual suspects, CdG, Helmut Lang, Martin Margiela,... I make it a personal crusade to hunt down vintage Thimister, I noticed you're quite crazy about him too. They're simple pieces but "couture" in quality. Tbh, nothing feels as comfortable as a good thin cotton t, and a scarf, you forget they exist, which is what I wanted at times.

I went on to graduate, also in a creative field, as fashion wasn't enough, but I still love it, not because it is fashion, but because it is "life". I don't like perfect "fashion" images, hated studio shoots though they were much easier, and tried to make characters or objects out of models in the shoots to grasp at this "life/alternate reality" told in compelling imagery - I stole a lot from films, from Subway to Night Porter. And of course my favourite pictures inevitably got axed.

How do you put your "story" together? Do the editrix give you a "theme"? Would love to see your work if you're still doing eds.

I have a lot more fun dressing up now for work as I have to impress difficult clients, it feels like a self-conscious choice but it is also empowering as I slip into a different persona, and the clothes and look give me mojo! Dressing gorgeously does make an impact on the days/nights when you want to be looked at, need others to be in awed, etc., sad to say, but it matters and it works, it transforms. I feel like a chameleon, and I like that, apply "styling" to myself, but what's deep down, ...wow, I still haven't figured it out but I suspect closer to the old days of the stylist lost in the shoots playing in her head.

So, do you have an interior different from what you project outside? :p

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05-07-2010
  65
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all good questions/answers...
and i think we have a LOT in common...
but i can't talk in depth about work on a holiday weekend...
and i think we are taking this thread seriously off topic...


i will answer the last question though..
because it's about personal style...
(probably my fave topic)
:p
Quote:
So, do you have an interior different from what you project outside? :p
NOPE...
what you see is what you get...
i don't even have a good poker face...
.......

*maybe i'm really a lot nicer than i seem to be...
just maybe...
...

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Last edited by softgrey; 05-07-2010 at 01:02 PM.
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06-07-2010
  66
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Quote:
and i think we are taking this thread seriously off topic...


i will answer the last question though..
because it's about personal style...
(probably my fave topic)
i think where the thread is going is much more interesting than the original one ...
though i'm not sure where you, guys, are going ... does your wardrobe mirror your work, your personnality ? right ?

* wait, i open this thread and indeed it's going off topic ...

and i remember that what i wanted to underline is how bloggers have turned Fashion into its own cliché ......
Hold on, my lack of english will be dangerous there ....

It was to discuss the fact that yeah Fashion is all about the Outside-Image, but in the end it's a job stylists are doing, so the focus should be on their work for clients and mass public ... only the fashion people see what you are wearing during FW, normally ... And the way you dress during FW was just a random business card ...

Now, that Fashion is complete open field (ie, everyone knows what's going on behind there, very quickly and since Fashion public has grown over the years, very worldwide), that Bloggers shot individuals on streets (we should not forget how Fashion Industry captured a phenomena dedicated to "non-fashion" people) ... the Business Card is definitely your STYLE, and no more your work ... The viewers have turned their eyes on the superficial/stylish side (the way they dress), and no more on the work they produce ...

And it's where stylists/editors have become celebs, since you don't buy/get inspired by anymore what you've seen IN magazines, but because of what you've ON your favorite stylist ......

* geez, too early in the morning ............

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06-07-2010
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I LOVE that this thread even exists.

adorefaith - i agree with absolutely everything you have said.

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09-07-2010
  68
DÔMMkammern
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheneveriwakeup View Post
I can't even take Alt seriously anymore. Her work just screams self-satisfied, egomaniac. Everything she touches becomes a clone of herself.
I think this thread is blaming almost entirely the stylist/newfashbloggerscelebrities for the phenomenon, and I am not sure we can do that...
First, because there are MANY cases of collections that, without being styled by someone like Emmanuelle Alt, or Carine Roitfeld, have taken huge inspiration from their style, thus making it (and them) more popular.
And most importantly because realizing that, as you say, "everything you touch becomes a clone of yourself" can be a very tricky situation to find yourself in.
What would you do if you had people complimenting your style constantly, copying it, photographing it?
(look at old pictures of Emmanuelle, and you'll realize she's been wearing essentially the same thing and that is before JAK&JIL put her on the spotlight)
So at some point you see that just by wearing what you like to wear, being who you are... people take an interest in you. An interest that, btw will most likely make your magazine sell even more!!!
So what should she do? change clothes to something people will sure not like? something she is not comfortable in, just because it's not her style.
If she had the opportunity to tell her friend (who is also her husband's boss) Isabel Marrant, that if she styles the show a certain way, the label is more likely to succeed and get noticed... shouldn't she do it?

I'd love to see us all in her position... just saying.

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10-07-2010
  69
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^ and people like Tom Ford and Christophe Decarnin base their work on the existing personal style of their collaborators like Roitfeld and Alt- it's a bit of a chicken and egg situation really.

It's true that some editors and stylists are now getting more attention paid to their style than to their work, as Panos Yiapanis put it, but there are so many stylists and fashion editors out there (and not just you guys, softgrey and Zazie- so interesting to hear your experiences and point of view!) whose personal style is definitely in the realm of the little-known/not often photographed, and whose work most definitely ranks up there at the top.

E.g.
Alexandra Shulman, editor of British Vogue- her magazine most definitely has better content and much more of a 'fashion' focus than American Vogue despite being as bound by commercial constraints. They frequently put out stunning editorials and even though Ms Shulman was a journalist before taking the helm and not directly involved in fashion in any way, and she's definitely no personal style maven, Vogue UK is definitely one of the best English-language fashion publications out there.

Lucinda Chambers- again, fashion director at Vogue UK. Responsible for God knows how many of my favourite editorials (and Vogue UK does put out some really good ones) and I have next to no idea what she looks like, apart from a feature in (I think) the Guardian or the Telegraph where she and Sophia Neophitou-Apostolou of 10 were forced to swap clothes for a day (very layered, baggy, favoured Marni)

Nicola Formichetti- practically a superstar stylist long before he started working with Lady Gaga, but not a streetstyle regular..I mean, I have copies of editorials styled by him in Dazed from 2001 and it always surprises me how they don't look dated at all.

Kate Phelan- again, responsible for the styling of plenty of great Vogue UK fashion spreads but I have no idea what she wears on a regular basis.

Melanie Ward- her thread on TFS will bear this out, almost all the images are of her work rather than of Melanie herself.

Panos Yiapanis- superlative work, but I didn't even know what he looked like till last year.

All the stylists at Vogue Girl Korea- I know, it's a foreign title and maybe stylists aren't so much the focus in countries outside the traditional "Fashion Four" (i.e. the US, UK, France and Italy), but the freshness of their styling never fails to blow me away and I don't even know their names!

Venetia Scott- again, one of the styling greats of the early 90s whom I don't seem to spot on streetstyle blogs . She's moved on to photography, and openly says she's bored with fashion magazines..

Stevie Dance- I don't know what the scene is like in Australia when it comes to fashion-people turning into celebrities, but I love her work for Russh. And again, I have no idea at all what she looks like.

Heck, even Lorraine Candy of Elle UK runs an absolutely fantastic magazine (she gave Elle a total and complete makeover back in 2008 and it's cooler than it's ever been) and I wouldn't be able to pick her out of a front row. And there are loads more, too....

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10-07-2010
  70
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^right now, there exists a place for both types of editors/stylists in the marketplace, but as the publishing world further adapts to the social networking, twittering, world wide web of a changing landscape, will they be able to escape it? this new media landscape demands both of these types....and not just in fashion.

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10-07-2010
  71
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Its up to the stylist...if she or he wants to dress up and show their designer pieces and trendy or individual styles to press and photographers and show up,they do.I saw that most of the fashion designers always only wear black simple pants and tshirts at fashion weeks.I guess creativity and personal style are different roads.If someone doesnt have an outstanding style and only wears simple same things never mean she or he does not have creativty as a stylist or a fashion designer.its all a choice.and most models are also style icons like some fashion editors.I guess if your style is big,then you become bigger in the industry and get jobs easier if you're known with your style.It may not be the only way to get more jobs easier or to stand out but it seems like one of the keys.

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11-07-2010
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This thread is extremely interesting - I hadn't really reflected on it before but I see the different sides to this discussion. But I agree with those who've pointed out that creative streetstyle doesn't guarantee capability as a stylist and vice versa

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15-07-2010
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The thread title should changed to "Fashion Editors : Super Stars" .... Coz, I do believe the "Focus on their Personal Style" is very oriented to only style, and not only general thoughts about the new "paradigm" of Fashion Editors/Stylists, from the Past unkwn people to 2000s superstars ....

And here is another proof, after The September Issue and Anna Wintour cover of a magazine, Diana Vreeland Biography, Grace C monumental book, here comes the biography of Carine Roitfeld :

Quote:
Dear Bloggers,

Olivier Zahm is currently working on the first biographical book about
Carine Roitfeld, to be published by Rizzoli in the Fall of 2011.

We would love to include questions from the blogosphere in this book.

We invite you bloggers to send a personal question to Carine which she will
selectively answer in her forthcoming book.

Please send your questions to: inquire@purple.fr

Rizzoli Editor
- the imagist

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17-07-2010
  74
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^^
that's funny... Olivier Zahm just recently trashed bloggers in this video..


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17-07-2010
  75
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Now, its seems to all changed, it's not really about the stylists work anymore, it's about how famous you are, which role you sit in a fashion show; and if you are famous enough, then mostly everyone will buy your work, and if they don't like the ed, they won't really blame it on the stylist, people'll blame it on the photographer, model etc...

Focusing on personal style is somehow a bigger approach for some stylists, since it somehow brings them fame (which I believe, majority of people loves), and light up their name to an extend, and in a period of time, she/he will or might somehow have a "super great dressed icon" etc etc title, then again, people will worship her editorials because she/he has a better personal style, then she/he will definitely be good at styling for a shoot, it's like blurring the lens. Well, for me, the stylist's personal style still differs from than editorial work; personal style is what one likes to wear at anytime anywhere, what they feel like; but styling for editorial is work, it's not about you, it's about how the stylist accomplish the task that is set for the work, and it's like a team thing rather than your personal style.

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