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04-12-2005
  16
trendsetter
 
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i guess Stella McCartney is leading the way with animal ethics, by using no animal products. (lets not start a big fur debate) but when designers like Vivienne Westwood, Todd Oldham, Marc Bouwer and others turn there backs on fur, it definately carries an ethical and humane message.

and to me that is important, because when i spend my money it is in line with the truth of who i am, and what i care about.

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04-12-2005
  17
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i love miss McCartney as a person but i find her stance against fur and leather usage very illogical.
her company is in part owned by a company (Gucci Group) that is one of the greatest users of fur and leather in thier Business. I personally am not against the usage of fur and/or leather but i do believe there should be a limit to how it is aobtained how much of it is used and for what purpose
I also do not believe that ethics in fashion should be relegated to a discussion solely about the usage of animal fur or leather in my estimation there is a myriad of other subjects that should be brought to the table in this discussion.
i shall name a few
what about a company like american apparel which promotes itself as a company free of sweatshop production and pays its employees good wages, but at the same time is using sexually graphic images to advertise its products that are largely geared toward a young (often teenage customer).
Its founder and CEO also being sued by former employees for sexually inappropriate conduct.

what about the subject of racism in high fashion of which miss Oprah Winfrey was a victim in Paris at the Hermes flagship, and to which there is a constant marginalisation of black designers to the point where i am leaning to believe that there may need to be a kind of "affirmative action" for blacks working in the fashion industry.

what about the constant abuse and victimization that is enthrusted upon young models by its established players at the hope of becoming successful in the industry

what about the subject of blatant dishonesty and lying for the sake of creating an image that is very untrue, solely for the purpose of being successful

there are many more that i could mention but i believe this should give the reader a General Idea

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04-12-2005
  18
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first things first..thanks tott for rasing this question because i't been killing me for a long time now.

yes, damn it! fashion can be ethical. you know it's all about the bottom line in business. profitabilty, bankruptcy..but how much money do you need? after all, jobs are to make a living with a few luxuries for most of us. Prada and Gucci should be no different (well, maybe a little)

think about it, doesn't this all fall back on money? i think the real question is: how much money do "they" want? are these companies mentally unwell?

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04-12-2005
  19
windowshopping
 
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What goes around comes around
Quote:
Originally Posted by tott
Do we really care?
I DO!!
I think as consumers we should be fully aware
of what we buy and who/how these were made by.

Wouldn't it make you feel so much better if
your favourite clothes weren't made from
cheap/child labourers or from animals treated under unfair conditions?!

Designers out there are (hopefully) clever enough that
cutting out unethical procedures won't cut out their brain cells
responsible for creating beautiful garments.

I think that these aspects separate the ones who really
LOVE & CARE about clothing from the ones who just say they do.

I mean, do we really want fashion to be that shallow???


Last edited by *Mei*; 04-12-2005 at 08:35 PM.
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04-12-2005
  20
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http://www.thefashionspot.com/forums...responsibility

this is a related thread, maybe a merger?

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04-12-2005
  21
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ty mutterlein...threads have been merged...

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05-12-2005
  22
trendsetter
 
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Hi softgrey, how are you, been a while.

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05-12-2005
  23
flaunt the imperfection
 
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hi zamb....
hope you're well......

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05-11-2014
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Maybe a thread I opened about H&M (The world according to H&M) should be merged with this, non ?

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05-11-2014
  25
Power to the 99%
 
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I wish there were someone asking designers about their sourcing, manufacturing, etc. and publishing this information on a regular basis. Information can be difficult to come by.

There's no doubt in my mind that the money is there in fashion to support fair trade--but is it happening? Probably even less than we think.

What really disgusts me is to read about designers (such as Miuccia Prada's recent interview with Cathy Horyn) talking about how they explicitly exclude what they claim are their values from their approach to fashion (Prada was talking about how she doesn't want to use older models). I don't want to hear excuses about 'Oh, well, that's the fashion business ...' when you're a powerful player as she is, she can darn well make her own rules. Anyone at all, powerful or not, can choose to raise their own level of play in terms of ethics and values. That is absolutely clear to me from my own experience.

So I admire anyone at all who shows any evidence at all that they are approaching fashion using positive values. I am not a vegan, but I appreciate what Stella McCartney does in terms of leather and fur.

I also see no issue with Stella McCartney being owned by Gucci. Turning it the other way, she's taking money from a company known for its use of leather, and investing it in non-leather production. There's something subversive about that, no?

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05-11-2014
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you should have a look at this article by susie bubble ...
"Making the world a better place"

extract:

Quote:
If Nike are leaders in the performance and sportswear world, then what of high fashion and the luxury end? Last week, François-Henri Pinault, CEO of Kering Group (fashion conglomerate which houses Gucci, Saint Laurent, Balenciaga and Alexander McQueen to name but a few) was in town to mark a five year partnership with the London College of Fashion’s Centre for Sustainable Fashion, which will engage LCF students in yes, how to make the world a better place. Kering and LCF will co-create a curriculum on sustainable practises and innovation and students will have the opportunity to present their innovations and solutions for an annual Kering Award that will give a monetary grant as well as an internship within Kering brands. “Kering’s commitment to sustainability mirrors our own ethos of Better Lives – using fashion to transform lives and create a more sustainable future,” said Frances Corner, head of LCF. “Sustainability in business is no longer an adjunct; it has to be integral to a new way of working. By collaborating with Kering in three key areas, placing people and our environment at the heart of what would do, we can make real progress.” From Pinault’s talk (which can be watched on video here) the main takeaway was that from Kering’s perspective, sustainability equates to good business sense and not because it sells more product. “(Fashion’s) our contribution to global problem-solving may not be immediately obvious,” said Pinault. “But I would argue that by the very nature of our industry’s innate creativity and ability to set trends, fashion can be a powerful player in illustrating new and appealing solutions to a more sustainable world. At Kering, sustainability is everyone’s business. We believe in it not only because it is the right thing to do, but because sustainable business is smart business. And conversely, the companies that bury their heads in the sand and think they can continue ‘as usual’ will simply not last.”

Pinault together with Kering’s chief sustainability officer and head of international institutional affairs Marie-Claire Daveu, emphasised that implementing sustainability at Kering wasn’t about selling, which is why a lot of the actions, targets and reports are really only communicated on a B2B level as opposed to the average consumer. For instance someone walking into a new Saint Laurent store, designed by Hedi Slimane, that the lighting is 100% LED, reducing electricity by consumption by 30%. Or that Gucci has pioneered a chrome-free leather tanning process, reducing both water and energy usage. Other actions are more overtly communicated as seen at Stella McCartney where of course, good sustainable practise is part of the raison d’etre of the brand. It was interesting that Jones pointed out that Nike’s standpoint was not just about doing less bad but about doing more good. Kering’s targets on the other hand, outlined on their website and at the talk, were definitely about doing less bad. They’re goals that are baby steps for a company wading into the complex territory of sustainability. By 2016, Kering hopes to reduce CO2 emissions and water usage by 25% and that they will be evlauating key suppliers every two years. Materials wise, Kering hopes to be PVC free and that their leather will be from responsible and verified sources, and skins and furs from verified captive breeding operations and that paper and packaging will have 50% recycled content. They will also be implementing an Environmental Profit & Loss Account, which measures and monetises the costs and benefits of a company’s environmental impacts across all of its supply chains from raw material to product distribution – in other words, they will monitor their business performance which takes natural resources into account. What Kering will do and action with all this EP&L data is slightly less clear. As I was listening to Pinault and Daveau speak, there was a feeling that it was more about the talk than real concrete action but at the very least, the conversation is being instigated by a fashion luxury conglomerate. And by partnering with LCF, a new generation of creative thinkers will be nurtured to bring forth change, something that I remember Orsola de Castro talking about. “This a generation who are thinking that if something isn’t done soon, it might come to the point where there isn’t a fashion industry at all.”

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05-11-2014
  27
Power to the 99%
 
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^ Thanks for posting that. I like a lot of the goals, and I like that they aren't years into the future ... 2016 is just over a year away now (duh ). It looks like more than talk to me ... no PVC, half recycled content, verified sources are all real things. I'm glad to hear this. The EP&L is interesting too.

When you're looking at doing something new, it does need to start off as talk. But it looks like the talk is getting converted to reality, including things that are already implemented (like the lighting).

A lot of the 'green' action I've seen companies take somehow mysteriously coincides with a positive impact to their bottom line ... like no longer stocking paper and Styrofoam products in the kitchen. This is going beyond that. The LEDs may be saving them money, but some of the other initiatives are not.

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06-11-2014
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I like watching investigation documentaries - especially about third-world conditions of life and work, children rights etc.

I'm sort of concerned by the world, and try to do my best to help it make a better place (being reasonable, though... i'm not a coocoo).

when it comes to anything i buy (trade, want, wish i had etc.) i try to do my best, so I consider it a MUST SAY that the whole process of production (from A to Z) is clear.
Therefore, I try not just to over-consume....
And I think a lot of things would be better if we would relearn how to consume, be new consumers.
To me, that is where most of things would stand.

The fact we OVER-consume (the fast generation, more than the X,Y or Z) is an issue that have made the third world (I'm sorry I'm not up to date for another word - emerging countries have left the third world) just a bigger industrial zone, with poor human rights. money being a god, even in very religious country.

CO2 impact is one of the highest priorities, but conditions of work of people is also an important thing. and we don't hear about it, enough... especially now that Green has made its ways everywhere.
We should think environment AND human (rights) at the same time.

in terms of Fast Fashion, I try my best not to buy too much of these products. I don't buy TopShop, H&M, and Zara ... First of all, it is because I don't like how most of these are tailored. They simply do not fit me that well. But I also know how the production works for most of them, and I do NOT appreciate it.
Also, I've been buying second hands, vintage, and thrift stores since i'm 13 yrs old.
And prefer to spend my money in quality things ....

I don't know much about High Fashion production - not everything is produced in France, Italy, England, USA a lot these days........
But it seems some efforts are made !


Last edited by BerlinRocks; 06-11-2014 at 02:18 PM.
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06-11-2014
  29
Power to the 99%
 
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^ I agree ... even without knowing the entire supply chain--and apparently they're unbelievably complex--if we consume better and consume less, I believe that has a positive impact. And I agree about avoiding fast fashion--I do as well. For one thing, I consider it a waste of my time to spend time choosing something and then it doesn't hold up. When I take the time to make a carefully-considered purchase, I want it to last a long time.

I noticed my new bag was made in Italy, and the workmanship is flawless--I have found nothing at all wrong. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think work like that cannot be happening under the terrible conditions we sometimes hear about (though I've never heard of terrible conditions anywhere in Italy--or anywhere else in the EU for that matter).

As you probably know, sometimes things say Made in the USA, and really they were made in some obscure territory somewhere, not necessarily under the best of conditions. With smaller countries, I think things are a bit clearer ...

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06-11-2014
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Quote:
As you probably know, sometimes things say Made in the USA, and really they were made in some obscure territory somewhere, not necessarily under the best of conditions. With smaller countries, I think things are a bit clearer ...
>American Apparel ?
I've heard about this. I don't know for sure.
And I'm sure other brands. But I remember too in the world according to hm thread, i've talked about factories in america, and someone said that american factories (in Fashion) are coming back...
I buy shoes only coming from England and Italy and France. But for sneakers it is more difficult to avoid Turkey (where I think things might be ok), Vietnam (), China (a lot of things have to be done over there for human and child working rights!!!) - and let's not even start with the very basic/premium materials coming from Africa!

I completely forgot to talk about one thing, but I still am concerned about people who buy in these Fast Fashion stores - it's like McDonalds, I know it is bad, but sometimes I am craving for it ...
I mean let's be real some people can't afford certain prices, and I think it is great that they can afford to express themselves with outfits, and cheap options are more than welcomed. But I feel like people don't know now how to really transform and appropriate things, so they just buy it already made, and consume them one after another - without really thinking their use.

So indeed I think the issue holds in the hands of consumers, AND rulers (to "teach" how to buy again.... The 1950-60s are behind us... We got the evolution's "good" and "dark" sides, now..... not to say there's one to choose, but ...)

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