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17-10-2006
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mustard's Avatar
 
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sorry if im being nieve (sp) or offensive this isnt intended to be but some of these ads i really dont understand why people think they are offensive.Some of them are obvious like the Gucci one in #207 but the Calvin Klein ad in #194 and the Gucci ad in #195, i really dont think that the designers and photographers were intending them to be offensive or disrespectful towards women, i think they were merley taking photographs of an interesting and beautiful composition.
I understand every body has their own opinionIn my opinion i think things are taken too far and people read too much into things

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Last edited by mustard; 17-10-2006 at 09:07 AM.
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17-10-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by softgrey
yes- i'd like to know this too..
please post dates and where these were published...
thanks...
Here you go:

Depicting Women as Sex Objects in Television Advertising: Effects on Body Dissatisfaction by Desiree Tygart taken from http://people.eku.edu/winslowm/psy300/tygart.htm
From this link I took it, there is no date posted.

Teen Girls, Sexism, and Marketeering by Cynthia Peters taken from
zmag.org/ZSustainers/ZDaily/1999-03/mar_16peters.htm
March 16 1999
Z net Daily Commentaries

Sexism and Sexuality in Advertising by Michael F. Jacobsen and Laurie Anne Mazur
Source: Jacobson, M. F., & Mazur, L. A. (1995). Sexism and sexuality in advertising. In M. F. Jacobson & L. A. Mazur (Eds.), Marketing madness: A survival guide for a consumer society, (pp. 74-87). Boulder, CO: Westview Press.
Taken from personal.kent.edu/~glhanson/readings/advertising/womeninads.htm


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17-10-2006
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thanks...
it seemed like the data was a bit out of date...
now i can see why...

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17-10-2006
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well, the gucci ad in #207 would seem to suggest that the woman is dominant in this situation ( if we are to read anything into it) everyone in the ads seem happy to me.
the reality is that sometimes we take things too far,
sexism exist and will always exist in one form or another. all of these people are being paid (bountifully i might add) to display themselves. i think parents and families have a personal responsibility to teach thier children some sort of self repect and value. This will ultimately be the beginning of the eradication ( or at least the lessening) of sexism

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17-10-2006
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I saw a really good documentary once, about how women are sexualized in advertising. What I find missing is the discourse about the biological dimension in this, in that most humans in their prime, straight or gay, are mostly sexual creatures, and these ads serve a bit of a fantasy function. True, women are victimised too frequently in reality, through rape and abuse, yet all those rape and S&M fantasies exist and are pleasurable for all sorts of peoples of all ages and sexual orientation. I think biologists and psychologists may better explain this! It's difficult to conclude that it's all outright exploitation, what if there is demand and desire for such fantasies on both ends? I think beyond the criminal, we still need some room to push artistic boundaries, but at the same time, we should be educated on these issues, not just sexism, but also consumerism, etc., so we are aware of what is being "sold" to us, and can make better choices and decisions for ourselves. I'd hate for artistic expression to be stifled, because some of the most interesting photography I love are daring, witty, rude and ironic, and many of them so because they explore some taboos or darker impulses.

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17-10-2006
  216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by softgrey
thanks...
it seemed like the data was a bit out of date...
now i can see why...
thanks, softgrey.

I am really sorry to be a pain in the a*s about this. But those first two texts are DRASTIC simplifications of actual scholarly papers (which I found); and they are written by people who have no apparent qualifications. It really bothers me when scientific research is hacked up and misrepresented as activist propaganda--which that Cynthia Peters text blatantly is!

I'm not a scientist; nor am i particularly swayed by so-called "scientific facts," but can we stick to legit sources of information here? I much prefer the opinions and comments of other tfs members to untrustworthy internet information.

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17-10-2006
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Kimkhuu, I thought of the Skyy Vodka ads too. They are some of the worst I've seen.

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17-10-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zazie
I saw a really good documentary once, about how women are sexualized in advertising. What I find missing is the discourse about the biological dimension in this, in that most humans in their prime, straight or gay, are mostly sexual creatures, and these ads serve a bit of a fantasy function. True, women are victimised too frequently in reality, through rape and abuse, yet all those rape and S&M fantasies exist and are pleasurable for all sorts of peoples of all ages and sexual orientation. I think biologists and psychologists may better explain this! It's difficult to conclude that it's all outright exploitation, what if there is demand and desire for such fantasies on both ends? I think beyond the criminal, we still need some room to push artistic boundaries, but at the same time, we should be educated on these issues, not just sexism, but also consumerism, etc., so we are aware of what is being "sold" to us, and can make better choices and decisions for ourselves. I'd hate for artistic expression to be stifled, because some of the most interesting photography I love are daring, witty, rude and ironic, and many of them so because they explore some taboos or darker impulses.
Idk everyone thinks it's just women, but Ive been many ads featuring men and sex. I would post pictures of this, but its very graphic and we do have underaged people here but I do remember when someone made a fake Puma ad called "The blowjob." This was between a woman and man, but Dolce spoofed it and featured two guys. I also remember the YSL ad that ran in V magazine (Stephan Gan is very bold) with a nude guy. Next, has anyone seen past Patrick Cox ads? Do look at the one with the two guys "wrestling" There are many more examples, so the point im trying to make is, it's more than just woman, it's women and men. I do believe female nudity is more prevelent though in the fashion world. The female nude- seems to be very popular for many designers use chiffon tops, so I guess its becoming accepted more and more, but people are also attracted by masculinity and nude men


Last edited by JJohnson; 17-10-2006 at 11:52 AM.
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17-10-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJohnson
Idk everyone thinks it's just women, but Ive been many ads featuring men and sex. I would post pictures of this, but its very graphic and we do have underaged people here but I do remember when someone made a fake Puma ad called "The blowjob." This was between a woman and man, but Dolce spoofed it and featured two guys. I also remember the YSL ad that ran in V magazine (Stephan Gan is very bold) with a nude guy. Next, has anyone seen past Patrick Cox ads? Do look at the one with the two guys "wrestling" There are many more examples, so the point im trying to make is, it's more than just woman, it's women and men. I do believe female nudity is more prevelent though in the fashion world. The female nude- seems to be very popular for many designers use chiffon tops, so I guess its becoming accepted more and more, but people are also attracted by masculinity and nude men
This is a good point! Read David Wojnarowicz's "Seven Miles a Second", Jim Caroll's "Basketball Diaries"...very difficult to plough through them emotionally, there's a lot of victimisation, exploitation and abuse of young gay men too, in the streets. I wonder if it's a wider social issue, more about power, and between the haves and have nots....

I am more concerned these days about world wars, and this playing up of the "Clash between West and Islam". It's bringing out the worst in people, costing a lot of lives, already killed a lot of innocent men, women and children, hundreds of thousands. It's a more pressing (and depressing...) concern...

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17-10-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zazie
This is a good point! Read David Wojnarowicz's "Seven Miles a Second", Jim Caroll's "Basketball Diaries"...very difficult to plough through them emotionally, there's a lot of victimisation, exploitation and abuse of young gay men too, in the streets. I wonder if it's a wider social issue, more about power, and between the haves and have nots....

I am more concerned these days about world wars, and this playing up of the "Clash between West and Islam". It's bringing out the worst in people, costing a lot of lives, already killed a lot of innocent men, women and children, hundreds of thousands. It's a more pressing (and depressing...) concern...
interesting...ill look into them. but what do you mean a wider social issue? Please explain. And yes, there are tooooooo many wars! ugh c'est horrible!

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17-10-2006
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Sean John is a huge contributer to this in my eyes...all the ads I've seen have offended me.

Quote:
in the 70s feminists use to go down the streets and object..
Just wanted to say...lots of feminists now are very interested and active in this issue. Only in the UK, I suppose fashion images pale into compariosn with Page 3 and soft-porn magazines...so, there's a lot of work to do.


Last edited by cosmocat; 17-10-2006 at 12:27 PM.
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17-10-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmocat
Sean John is a huge contributer to this in my eyes...all the ads I've seen have offended me.


Just wanted to say...lots of feminists now are very interested and active in this issue. Only in the UK, I suppose fashion images pale into compariosn with Page 3 and soft-porn magazines...so, there's a lot of work to do.
by saying "in the 70s feminists use to go down the streets and object.." do you mean flirting on random women on the street? I see a lot of this in urban music videos...I hate the fact that the media portray many african-americans doing this, for it is all an act, but young men actually think it's a reality and do it themselves.....very annoying!!!

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17-10-2006
  223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zazie
This is a good point! Read David Wojnarowicz's "Seven Miles a Second", Jim Caroll's "Basketball Diaries"...very difficult to plough through them emotionally, there's a lot of victimisation, exploitation and abuse of young gay men too, in the streets. I wonder if it's a wider social issue, more about power, and between the haves and have nots....

I am more concerned these days about world wars, and this playing up of the "Clash between West and Islam". It's bringing out the worst in people, costing a lot of lives, already killed a lot of innocent men, women and children, hundreds of thousands. It's a more pressing (and depressing...) concern...
This is so important--thanks Zazie and Jjohnson for bringing this up. Sexual politics; and the use of sexual imagery for exploitation have gone way, way beyond what feminists were fighting in the 70's.
I am a lot more horrified by the photos of Abu-Ghraib prisoners being tortured (by male AND female soldiers) than I am by a Versace ad. Talk about sex being assumed as power; and being used to humiliate and oppress people! It doesn't get any more "real" than that.

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17-10-2006
  224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iluvjeisa
In a democracy with a free market there are certain less desirable side effects, such as that companies can sell unhealthy products and project unhealthy images to impressionable people. This has to be controlled within reason, such as ads for nicotine etc. Still, what do we want to do about the "sex sells" thing? Have some censorship that forbids "sexy" images?

Personally, I feel that ads, although their motives are sinister if you will, are often really good art. It is up to the individual to resist any temptation to go with the herd and defy any impulse to start doubting themselves because of their imperfections. I never understood why people feel a need to live up to all these different ideals that they perceive. I think it comes from that risk of sticking out, being outside the pack, regardless of how despicable that pack is. Their mindset makes absolutely no sense to me - and it's all just quite amusing, if tragic.

Basically, I can't understand this passage:



Why would perfectoid ads lead to self-scrutiny? The image in itself is not what makes us self-scrutinize. It is something else, inherent in some cultures, of self-criticism and insecurity. Why would it be so inconceiveable for a person to view a beautiful ad and think to themselves, just like they do when they meet a beautiful person or whatever, wow, that person is beautiful, and just be happy for them and just admire their beauty? Why does it have to be all about ourselves? I think THAT is the sickness that really pervades our culture. It is just pervertedly self-centered and uncharitable, and for women, this is often done in a passive way, hiding under the seemingly self-obliterating "Oh, I'm not pretty enough, I have to bitch and whine and make everyone around me aware of their own faults as well, in case they would be carefree enough to not already know about them".

I just don't think the feelings of inadequacy comes from the ads. I think it comes from generations of overt self-criticism and competive behaviour as an effective strategy to surpass others. The ads may feed on some of the most unpleasant aspects of human behaviour, but it is not at the root of it.

That's the point.
I absolutely agree.

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17-10-2006
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I don't agree that you can compare issues and say one is more 'pressing' than the other, apart from your won perspective. I think many women (and men) are still very, very concerned with this issue, whilst most likey being engaged with other issues as well. It would be hard not to...

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