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10-03-2018
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Faux v. Fur ... Fashion's hairiest debate
Quote:
Faux v fur — fashion’s hairiest debate

More and more brands are rejecting real fur, but is the alternative any more ethical?

By Charlie Porter

https://www.ft.com/content/ebf1a9c6-...d-c3edfe974e9f

ft.com
It's a copyright violation to post the article, but it's definitely worth following the link and reading, as it discusses the costs of faux fur on the environment.

I personally don't see the need for either.

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10-03-2018
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^When I click on the link it takes me to a subscription page. I can access it from a google search though.

Thanks for starting the thread, HeatherAnne! I read the article two days ago and the part that interested me the most was the fact that Gucci is looking to develop faux fur made of biogradable fabric. Until that happens, I'm with you, there's no need for fur, real or synthetic.

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11-03-2018
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Here's another article ... by Mark Oaten, CEO of the International Fur Trade Federation in Huffington Post so it has to biased ... but nor more biased than PETA ... and it puts forth a good point: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/mark..._11294686.html
Quote:
A real fur coat can last for 30 years and with a bit of clever restyling need never go out of fashion. Plus it offers extraordinary comfort and warmth. Fakes on the other hand are 'disposable fashion' and hang around in most wardrobes for no more than five years or so, if they're lucky.

So while the fake furs sit on landfills alongside plastic rubbish bags poisoning the world, natural fur either stays in the coat closet (perhaps being updated by a furrier from time to time - and what fake fur can claim to receive that sort of attention?) or quietly biodegrades.
Kill animals or kill the environment? Seems like fur (real or faux) is pretty harmful and unnecessary for warmth in this modern age.

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Last edited by BetteT; 12-03-2018 at 11:27 AM.
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11-03-2018
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Maybe the best compromise is to promote furs from animals that people actually eats or wears clothes from. I don't see anything wrong with lambskin fur, sheep fur/Shearling, Goat fur. I think today furriers can develop ways to work with those 3 categories.

I think the problem with fur is maybe a matter of "personification". A fox is not a domestic animal so, no matter how hard PETA will find ways to show it to people, those same people can't relate to it. The same for mink. A mink is quite cute but how many people know what an actual mink look like?

On top of that, fur involves a lot of jobs and some part of the world are still living out of that.

At the end of the day, the consumer is the one who respond and influence the industry. And obviously, the vast majority of consumers wants fur and for me the most honest way to do it is by using the same sources as the ones for the bags and clothes.

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12-03-2018
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Faux fur is terrible for the environment...especially the way it's manufactured.
At least with real fur it's 100% biodegradable (obviously as long as you remove the inner silk lining etc)

I'm from Australia where fur is really unnecessary to wear but it amazes me that more fox fur isn't used because fox is a MAJOR foreign pest in Australia. We are ethically obliged to kill all foxes here no matter how cute they look because they are killing SO MUCH of our native fauna. It's really bad! I have a farm in rural Victoria but now live in the Australian Capital Territory and the damage foxes do to native bird and small mammal communities is devastating.

I've always thought about creating fox fur coats and other items used from the wild pest foxes killed by hunters here. It perfectly balances out the ethical problems because it's not using farmed animals and it's helping the Australian biodiversity.

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13-03-2018
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I you're promptly going to wear fur: vintage fur.

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22-03-2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billiejbob View Post
Faux fur is terrible for the environment...especially the way it's manufactured.
At least with real fur it's 100% biodegradable (obviously as long as you remove the inner silk lining etc)

I'm from Australia where fur is really unnecessary to wear but it amazes me that more fox fur isn't used because fox is a MAJOR foreign pest in Australia. We are ethically obliged to kill all foxes here no matter how cute they look because they are killing SO MUCH of our native fauna. It's really bad! I have a farm in rural Victoria but now live in the Australian Capital Territory and the damage foxes do to native bird and small mammal communities is devastating.

I've always thought about creating fox fur coats and other items used from the wild pest foxes killed by hunters here. It perfectly balances out the ethical problems because it's not using farmed animals and it's helping the Australian biodiversity.
See - this is an incredibly interesting perspective, and so important. Thank you for sharing.

All these companies who go on with their moral preening about switching over to faux-fur as if they were MLK Jr. and then everyone applauding them as if they were God, really is so unintelligent.

You've provided a very realistic and compelling pro-fur argument. People need to wake up and understand that life is simply not black and white. There are pros and cons to every choice made. Rewards and consequences. There is never a fix-all, win-win solution. So - companies like Gucci and Versace have banned fur? Now what? Also, as Lola mentioned, many small, local, indigenous communities have survived for centuries on the fur trade - indigenous communities that we're always scolded into treating with the utmost sensitivity - "don't you dare use their cultural iconography!" But what about when it comes to their actual, real-life livelihood? So much for all the compassion and "wokeness..."

Plus, people act like wearing fur is some evil specific to Western society. People in every corner of the world have worn fur for since the beginning of time for survival AND for decoration and status. What purpose would abolishing it serve?

And again, the ecological component to faux fur is terrible, it's shelf life is pretty abysmal and it doesn't offer any longevity. Who passes down a faux fur coat through the generations? It's pretty wasteful. Real fur, on the other hand, lasts and is cherished for several generations, at least. Which is more eco-friendly between the two? People love to act like anyone who wears fur is Cruella de Vil, or is dumping their used coats into a landfill for waste. Very delusional. I guarantee that the absolute majority of people who buy fur do not treat it disrespectfully - most are well aware of the value and cost (both the literal and figurative) of what they are purchasing and treat it accordingly.

Furthermore, anyone who lives in regions that get extremely cold in the winter, real fur (or real down, etc) is the difference between "pure misery" and "survival." As someone who lived in NY for many years, I can tell you the difference between wearing a synthetic puffer and an authentic down or fur jacket during the winter is noticeable, to say the least.

All in all, I don't think faux fur SHOULDN'T exist, and I don't mind people being opposed to fur, either - but what I do find to be frustrating is the delusion that real fur is pure evil and morally repugnant and faux fur is virtuous above critique. And, maybe more than anything - I find the mentality particularly reprehensible than anyone thinks they have the right to control what someone else on this earth wishes to do with their life. If someone wants to wear fur - allow them to partake. Opt out for yourself. End of story.

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Last edited by dior_couture1245; 22-03-2018 at 01:35 PM.
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26-03-2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dior_couture1245 View Post
See - this is an incredibly interesting perspective, and so important. Thank you for sharing.

All these companies who go on with their moral preening about switching over to faux-fur as if they were MLK Jr. and then everyone applauding them as if they were God, really is so unintelligent.

You've provided a very realistic and compelling pro-fur argument. People need to wake up and understand that life is simply not black and white. There are pros and cons to every choice made. Rewards and consequences. There is never a fix-all, win-win solution. So - companies like Gucci and Versace have banned fur? Now what? Also, as Lola mentioned, many small, local, indigenous communities have survived for centuries on the fur trade - indigenous communities that we're always scolded into treating with the utmost sensitivity - "don't you dare use their cultural iconography!" But what about when it comes to their actual, real-life livelihood? So much for all the compassion and "wokeness..."

Plus, people act like wearing fur is some evil specific to Western society. People in every corner of the world have worn fur for since the beginning of time for survival AND for decoration and status. What purpose would abolishing it serve?

And again, the ecological component to faux fur is terrible, it's shelf life is pretty abysmal and it doesn't offer any longevity. Who passes down a faux fur coat through the generations? It's pretty wasteful. Real fur, on the other hand, lasts and is cherished for several generations, at least. Which is more eco-friendly between the two? People love to act like anyone who wears fur is Cruella de Vil, or is dumping their used coats into a landfill for waste. Very delusional. I guarantee that the absolute majority of people who buy fur do not treat it disrespectfully - most are well aware of the value and cost (both the literal and figurative) of what they are purchasing and treat it accordingly.

Furthermore, anyone who lives in regions that get extremely cold in the winter, real fur (or real down, etc) is the difference between "pure misery" and "survival." As someone who lived in NY for many years, I can tell you the difference between wearing a synthetic puffer and an authentic down or fur jacket during the winter is noticeable, to say the least.

All in all, I don't think faux fur SHOULDN'T exist, and I don't mind people being opposed to fur, either - but what I do find to be frustrating is the delusion that real fur is pure evil and morally repugnant and faux fur is virtuous above critique. And, maybe more than anything - I find the mentality particularly reprehensible than anyone thinks they have the right to control what someone else on this earth wishes to do with their life. If someone wants to wear fur - allow them to partake. Opt out for yourself. End of story.
***Edited***

There is a difference between a man who comes from an indigenous tribe and wears fur because of the following things:
-Survival (Low temperatures)
-Tradition
-Goods (They usually exchange their furs for other goods through common barter)

***Edited***

Normal people like you and me DO NOT need to wear real fur. Real fur is treated just like any other luxury item: A piece that you wear for prestige which is IMO 100% wrong because that's not what it was meant to be when humans started to wear fur for survival.

***Edited*** I'm just glad that people are finally getting rid of this insane habit of killing animals just so that lady who married a rich husband can wear a grotesque coat so she can show off and 'flex' to her friends.

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Last edited by BetteT; 26-03-2018 at 11:25 AM. Reason: Removing disrespectful remarks directed at the previous poster.
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28-03-2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FashionMuseDior View Post
***Edited***

There is a difference between a man who comes from an indigenous tribe and wears fur because of the following things:
-Survival (Low temperatures)
-Tradition
-Goods (They usually exchange their furs for other goods through common barter)

***Edited***

Normal people like you and me DO NOT need to wear real fur. Real fur is treated just like any other luxury item: A piece that you wear for prestige which is IMO 100% wrong because that's not what it was meant to be when humans started to wear fur for survival.

***Edited*** I'm just glad that people are finally getting rid of this insane habit of killing animals just so that lady who married a rich husband can wear a grotesque coat so she can show off and 'flex' to her friends.
Using that logic, people don't need leather shoes, or leather belts, or leather handbags and purses, leather skirts, or leather anything really...but they do. And once again, pleather is WAY worse for the environment than actual leather.

It's about being sustainable for the environment and being ethical in the treatment of animals and biodiversity. Hence my previous point about using feral foxes or other feral animals to produce fur items.

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29-03-2018
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What's the point of Luxury if you can't use the finest materials? Besides, Faux-fur is unsustainable and if you're going to invest your money, it might as well in the real one.


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03-04-2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PierreGotha View Post
What's the point of Luxury if you can't use the finest materials? Besides, Faux-fur is unsustainable and if you're going to invest your money, it might as well in the real one.

EDITED >>> Removing image from quote, per tFS rules.
I love how nonchalantly and plainly you put it lol, but i agree with you, diorcouture and definitely feeling the pain of billiejbob.

whilst i am sure there are some super rich people who buys and collects fur to flaunt, I think they are probably the minority.

And if some people argue that using fur is not as necessary as eating meat (both killing animals), that is bs as well, since there are vegans too.

and then of course, there is the leather argument like billie pointed out above.

faux fur, in my opinion, is just damaging to the environment, period. if we have to ban fur, might as well just go do without it totally.


Last edited by BetteT; 04-04-2018 at 01:49 PM.
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09-04-2018
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just wear vintage fur...
those animals are already dead and you honor them by continuing to use their skins rather than chucking them on a garbage heap...

anyway- that's what i do and have always done...
people give me their furs, actually, when an older relative passes away or whatever...
they know i will take care of them and appreciate them and give them a good home...

i feel like the folks that flaunt their fur are the nouveau riche...
you can figure out who they are...

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09-04-2018
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just have to say...
has anyone checked out Fendi's website?
they do fur that is on a whole other level...
it's really incredible...
they have videos that show the pieces being put together ...
honestly, from the perpective of workmanship, it is just remarkable...

i was just watching with my mouth hanging open...

and then i went to the store and saw the actual pieces in person...
unbelievable work...

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09-04-2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by softgrey View Post
just have to say...
has anyone checked out Fendi's website?
they do fur that is on a whole other level...
it's really incredible...
they have videos that show the pieces being put together ...
honestly, from the perpective of workmanship, it is just remarkable...


i was just watching with my mouth hanging open...

and then i went to the store and saw the actual pieces in person...
unbelievable work...
This!

An example to why i still support the fur trade.

This industry is in dire need of proper craftsmanship, because people are unknowingly sacrificing it for their pecksniffish motives.

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09-04-2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PierreGotha View Post
This!

An example to why i still support the fur trade.

This industry is in dire need of proper craftsmanship, because people are unknowingly sacrificing it for their pecksniffish motives.
Ok. You just slayed me with “pecksniffish.” I love it.

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