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24-05-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lena
to me, cdg was always more than just the collections.
in my book Rei has finally succeded in her dream, she changed the way we see fashion, more than any other designer in the last part of the 20th century, she's on the same level with Chanel.. and the guerilla concept just came as a cherry at the top.. best fashion concept she ever developed
for me, guerilla stores are the epitome of modern marketing, it's Rei getting finally down to earth, interacting with the non-commedesgarconians, she made it safe and she made it well. if only more fashion houses had cdg's vision of marketing, consumerism was going to be so much more interesting

ps. i find both Rei and Junya extremelly influenced by 'nostalgia' much more the 18th century kind :p
ah, thank you lena for that insight. I suppose it sounds idealistic to say any sort of reference, or nostalgia is ultimately empty..not true. i see retro as a bit different. how are they influenced by the 18th century?

i think you are right by saying rei will have lasting influence w/ the guerilla stores, and i'm sure as we speak fashion houses and all the way down to GAP type stores are coming up w/ their own take on "guerilla" stores. rei has always been about the bigger picture...she's a born catalyst, and it's fitting she'd pave the way for experiential retail spaces. i was chatting w/ a friend who works in strategy and we were talking about how she's brought back the thrill of the hunt...
people are eagerly keeping taps on which store in what location is springing up, and if they will really keep to the one year limit. rei has created play for grownups: it's like a treasure hunt around the world..and the prize..is her clothes, the excitment of her vision. it's her game.

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Last edited by travolta; 24-05-2005 at 05:31 AM.
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24-05-2005
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absolutely, brilliant marketing at its very best..
the 'treasure hunt' issue is bringing the fun back in 'shopping'
because it certainly is beyong pure consumerism, it's the epotome of the ephemeral.

*the one year round certainly holds, i still regret not taking it seriously
(missed the cdg cologne series )

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24-05-2005
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thanks lena. i agree on your views on rei and junya.

Quote:
Originally Posted by travolta
I agree..i think fashion..as is the world, moving further and further into abstraction or embracing otherwise seemingly illogical, radical thought...btw what to you think of comme des garcons? i keep thinking they are becoming a bigger player..esp. now with the guerilla stores..
totally. essentially, the question is not personal taste or tastelessness of certain styles (which is impossible to debate) but whether anything in today's fashion triggers any reaction, gets any message across or is simply fashion for fashion's sake. my point in a nutshell is that fashion is an artform which like any other artform projects the inner spiritual state to the outer material world. its purpose is to provide quick communication between people, on sight information about who you are, where you come from, what you see, think and feel, what technologically, aesthetically and otherwise distinguishes your era from any other. if fashion does not do that, which i feel it doesn't anymore (except for few designers - including rei of course), than it has lost its point and therefore its creativity and effect. it has become a means for itself which is never enough, just like the point of art can never be just art.

the trouble with fashion being entirely derived from human imagination is that it is a limited source. a human cannot think of any new colour which has not already seen in nature. and in my view, one will never purposely come up with the kind of exquisite colour combination you see on some wild flowers or frogs in the amazon. the magnificant and highly versatile works of art one has created since the beginning of time, were derived from one magnificent and highly versatile true feelings of the world. not from the desire to sell, compete in ideas or think up something crazy and original.

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24-05-2005
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hello battles:

i like your ideas, and am confused by them at the same time! :p i hope you don't mind clearing some things up for me, because i find your points really interesting:

Quote:
Originally Posted by battles
...(fashion's) purpose is to provide quick communication between people, on sight information about who you are, where you come from, what you see, think and feel, what technologically, aesthetically and otherwise distinguishes your era from any other. if fashion does not do that, which i feel it doesn't anymore....
i think fashion does this very well, by default. if mediocrity is the norm and conformity is the rule, then this is reflected in mass marketed clothing, right? what do people see? each other. what do people feel? insecure (especially about their sexuality and financial security) and frightened of standing out. these are gross and cynical generalizations, but i would argue that fashion telegraphs these messages effectively, for better or worse, don't you think?

also, this statement -
Quote:
the trouble with fashion being entirely derived from human imagination is that it is a limited source. a human cannot think of any new colour which has not already seen in nature. and in my view, one will never purposely come up with the kind of exquisite colour combination you see on some wild flowers or frogs in the amazon.
seems to contradict this statement:
Quote:
the magnificant and highly versatile works of art one has created since the beginning of time, were derived from one magnificent and highly versatile true feelings of the world. not from the desire to sell, compete in ideas or think up something crazy and original.
do you believe that humanity is limited in its creative potential both by nature (we simply aren't capable of coming up with anything new) and by commerce (the need to sell inhibits true creativity)? or are you saying that great works of art are inspired by the magnificence and versatility of nature?

my experience with trying to make a living with creativity is that the creative impulse requires a kind of listening to those magnificent true feelings of the world and expressing them or translating them into your chosen medium; but selling them has its own system and logic. it's another hat that has to be worn. but it doesn't cancel out the connection to that source you speak of.

meme


Last edited by meme527; 24-05-2005 at 10:52 AM.
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24-05-2005
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hello meme, i guess i couldn't agree with you more in your first point.

whether our ideas and inspirations come from the outisde or the inside as brilliant philosophers like ludwig wittgenstein and you believe, is not essential to my case, which is why i mentioned both possibilities. everything i mentioned served only to explain that i think fashion, like any other art, has to be inspired by greater rather than smaller impact (from within or without) in order to project higher rather than smaller impact. if you are more touched by things (whether existant or conceived) you might touch more if you are an artist and you will not be the creator of an idea, you will be its medium.

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24-05-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by battles
if you are more touched by things (whether existant or conceived) you might touch more if you are an artist and you will not be the creator of an idea, you will be its medium.
wonderful.

thank you!

meme


Last edited by meme527; 24-05-2005 at 11:32 AM.
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24-05-2005
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you're most welcomed.

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24-05-2005
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Just a thought that occurred.. Google has about 738,000 references for the term designer genes.

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24-05-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by battles
hello meme, i guess i couldn't agree with you more in your first point.

whether our ideas and inspirations come from the outisde or the inside as brilliant philosophers like ludwig wittgenstein and you believe, is not essential to my case, which is why i mentioned both possibilities. everything i mentioned served only to explain that i think fashion, like any other art, has to be inspired by greater rather than smaller impact (from within or without) in order to project higher rather than smaller impact. if you are more touched by things (whether existant or conceived) you might touch more if you are an artist and you will not be the creator of an idea, you will be its medium.
i compeletly agree..is that why the new mfa is the new mba?

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24-05-2005
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As I see it Fashion is relatively a young art form, even though the craft side is as old as civilization. Just take a look at painting and you will see it took many a century for it as an overall movement to be truly free in its expression. Not that it took that long for artists to open up to the possibilities of it all, but for society itself to feel comfortable with the idea. Remember it is only recently, and because of this freedom, that art could be made relatively cheap (ease of access), in past eras you needed to be a part of the social fabric (benefactors) as an artist or your so-called career would be very short lived. It is through the interweave of technology and thought, both pushing each other forward, that this is all possible in whatever art form, THIS being the ability for one to express their selftruth. Fashion is still mostly a craft and the majority doesn’t have the comfort level to accept it as anything but, thus being too fashion forward personally can be detrimental to ones acceptance and as a business dangerous to the bottom line. Over time fashion as an art will find its voice(s) and its footing, these cycles just need to run their course.



As to this idea of genetic self-expression I think that the technology may not be so far off, though the problem again will be society. Society will not accept this without a strong fight, and when I say society I do not mean the battle of opinions amongst of our peers. I am talking about the reality that the makers of these technologies will not allow these deviations. It will take the equivalent of gene-hackers to modify whatever product, and that would end up being a crime according to legislature put into place to stop the subversion of patented technologies. In the end this will be a major war of wills that could make the 20th century's battle for and against racism, sexism and homophobia pale in comparison. I can almost hear the religious zealots argument that gene-play is a sacrilege, a violation of God's will, and the hundred of other condemnations from those who would be appalled by living amongst ‘freaks by design’.


Last edited by Tism; 24-05-2005 at 11:29 PM.
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24-05-2005
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in the news today, the us (house of representatives) backs stem cell funding.

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Last edited by travolta; 24-05-2005 at 11:31 PM.
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25-05-2005
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as for us here, we just need to keep this discussion on topic

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25-05-2005
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i apologize for going into politics, but i thought it was worth bringing up because its an example of how the world views meddling in these things..if indeed fashion would go down that route, as we have been theorizing.

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25-05-2005
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accepted travolta, as far as we keep being focused on fashion's future
i just needed to remind us of the topic

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25-05-2005
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if you want to read more about the mfa as the new mba..check out this link
http://www.dcontinuum.com/content/news.php?id=209

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