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25-04-2011
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Is gender-neutral fashion the future?
From STYLE.COM:

Kanye West in Céline SS11


Liv Tyler in Givenchy menswear


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Plenty of celebs were snapped at Coachella last weekend, but the picture that got the most play was the one of Kanye West in women’s Spring 2011 Celine. Our first thought: Was Dan Gainor notified? (Gainor, in case you missed “Toemaggedon,” is one of the conservative media critics who criticized J.Crew’s Jenna Lyons for painting her son’s toes pink, calling it “gender-bending.”) Our second: You gotta give Kanye credit; he’s got great taste in girls’ clothes. He’s not alone. Lately, we’ve noticed a lot of men sporting women’s runway looks. Take Andrew Mukamal, current sittings assistant at Seventeen and former employee of Kelly Cutrone, and wearer of Balenciaga and Proenza Schouler. “It’s pretty simple,” he said, explaining his interest in fashion designed for the opposite sex. “Women have more options. Their collections explore different shapes, fabrics, prints, colors, proportions. Menswear collections don’t go there.” Some women might beg to differ, though. On the flip side, we’ve recently noticed a few fashionable girls succumbing to the allure of a well-cut men’s jacket, starting with Anna Dello Russo in Umit Benan and Taylor Tomasi Hill in Comme des Garçons.

What do you think of this? Should men stick to menswear and women to womenswear? Should it be a big deal when men wear womenswear (and vice versa)? Is there a double-standard? Are we leaning towards a more gender-neutral fashion?

I think it's perfectly fine when men incorporate some womenswear elements if it blends well in the whole outfit. I do it myself, and I never got any negative reactions because no one ever noticed. The reason why I started doing it is because womenswear offers many more interesting stuff. I didn't really think twice about. If I can't find what I want in the mens department but find it in the womens one and it fits me, then why should I refrain from buying it?

I also find the whole thing quite hypocritical. While no one barely notice when a woman wears menswear (and it has become a trend i.e: boyfriend jeans, jackets, the women tuxedo etc); some are almost outraged when a guy do it.

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25-04-2011
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^i love the idea, but not a fan of those 2 examples

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25-04-2011
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Womenwear incorporates masculine shapes and silhouettes while retaining some feminine-like shape and structure. For men it's usually the opposite, womenwear seem to have less of an influence, or at least not as strong or apparent. I don't think men or women should stick to clothes that caters to their gender if they don't feel like it or would like to explore more fashion options. I believe society is more accepting of women wearing men clothes or something inspired by it. I'm not entirely sure why maybe it's because fashion is heavily geared to women and people get use to seeing women wearing men fashion or something inspired by men fashion. A guy wearing a skirt or dress unless it's a kilt or religious or traditional garment is going to get some flack. I don't see gender-neutral fashion becoming a major part of fashion or at least emerging into a mainstream society.


Last edited by silk skin paws; 25-04-2011 at 01:18 PM.
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25-04-2011
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a century ago, it was basically unimaginable for women to wear men's pants or suit... and in one century the fashion has changed and evolved more than in thousands years. so yeah... i think fashion in the future will still be gender-based due to different identity and body of women and men... but it will evolve into new forms and will exchange certain ideas.... you can see the difference now already... girls wearing men's suits or girls wearing their boyfriends shirts or pants (Gap even made a collection based on that), boys wearing skinny jeans and saggin.... or wearing super tight T-shirts, more jewellery, rappers wearing mink coats, not even talking about expansion of men's purses (or satchels as i should say ), plus you have multiple unisex articles already like converse shoes or basically entire AmericanApparel store.... and i dont agree with the comment above... in ancient Egypt or Rome men were wearing skirts and loose gowns on regular basis... i dont see a reason why this trend cannot come again in the future... its all about people's open-mindedness

and to the author: completely agree, very often people dont even recognize womenswear items in menswear outfit if its styled well... plus womenswear is more playful and diverse... menswear is veyr boring and simple, very little to experiment in.. so why not help it?

and at the end i would like to enclose a picture of stunning Charlize Theron in Dior Homme from couple years ago... i think it was absolute excellent idea and she looks so out of this world... <3
dailyfrontrow.com aseriousjobisnoexcuse.blogspot.com


PS: and you know guys what i love the most? when you look at old renaissance portraits and you see a man looking all serious and manly in white tights, velvet shorts, shoes on heels, a colorful jacket with heavy embroidery and shirt with ruffle sleeves... not talking about wigs and white make-up just flawless, now all guys wear jeans, t-shirt or shirt or boring black suit... what happened to fashion? of course i dont wanna dress silly like that, but how women's fashion evolved, the men's fashion devolved :-((( but u can still see some costumes nowadays like matadors in pink tights, embroidery suit and hat... very interesting


Last edited by StrikingFashion; 25-04-2011 at 05:45 PM.
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25-04-2011
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Christopher Kan'es t shirts have been popular with both men and women.they are unisex.

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26-04-2011
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I think it's somewhat fair to say that all of menswear is unisex. Nowadays women are more likely to be admired or commended rather than be ridiculed or scrutinized for wearing mens clothes. And I don't mean masculine clothes, I mean actual men's clothes. Therefore menswear can be worn by both genders.
Meanwhile trying to "uni-sexualize" womenswear has had next no success, with the exception of things like the skinny jeans.

It's quite interesting really. A woman wearing a men's blazer would be viewed as "sexy" or "brave" or "independent", but a man wearing a woman's skirt....not so much.

Personally, I don't think gender-neutral fashion is the future. We only have 2 genders on this planet, I don't think people are going to be willing to sacrifice that in the fashion department.
But I do love what Kanye is wearing. I'd never wear it myself, but it suits him really well. I can't stand him but good on him for doing that.


Last edited by Squizree; 26-04-2011 at 01:43 AM.
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26-04-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StrikingFashion View Post
a century ago, it was basically unimaginable for women to wear men's pants or suit... and in one century the fashion has changed and evolved more than in thousands years. so yeah... i think fashion in the future will still be gender-based due to different identity and body of women and men... but it will evolve into new forms and will exchange certain ideas.... you can see the difference now already... girls wearing men's suits or girls wearing their boyfriends shirts or pants (Gap even made a collection based on that), boys wearing skinny jeans and saggin.... or wearing super tight T-shirts, more jewellery, rappers wearing mink coats, not even talking about expansion of men's purses (or satchels as i should say ), plus you have multiple unisex articles already like converse shoes or basically entire AmericanApparel store.... and i dont agree with the comment above... in ancient Egypt or Rome men were wearing skirts and loose gowns on regular basis... i dont see a reason why this trend cannot come again in the future... its all about people's open-mindedness

and to the author: completely agree, very often people dont even recognize womenswear items in menswear outfit if its styled well... plus womenswear is more playful and diverse... menswear is veyr boring and simple, very little to experiment in.. so why not help it?

and at the end i would like to enclose a picture of stunning Charlize Theron in Dior Homme from couple years ago... i think it was absolute excellent idea and she looks so out of this world... <3
dailyfrontrow.com aseriousjobisnoexcuse.blogspot.com


PS: and you know guys what i love the most? when you look at old renaissance portraits and you see a man looking all serious and manly in white tights, velvet shorts, shoes on heels, a colorful jacket with heavy embroidery and shirt with ruffle sleeves... not talking about wigs and white make-up just flawless, now all guys wear jeans, t-shirt or shirt or boring black suit... what happened to fashion? of course i dont wanna dress silly like that, but how women's fashion evolved, the men's fashion devolved :-((( but u can still see some costumes nowadays like matadors in pink tights, embroidery suit and hat... very interesting
Very interesting point. Case in point: King Louis VIX of France.


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We look at him now and think "Oh Lord what is he wearing?", but in the 17th Century this was the sh*t! Wearing heels and exposing your legs was seen as a sign of wealth, power, authority and masculinity. If he was alive now, he'd be laughing at us.

However, I would not necessarily say that menswear has "devolved". An example is Louis' heels. After the French Revolution both sexes stopped wearing them because of their association with pre-revolution ideas. So fashion doesn't always change according to what is seen as "masculine" and what is seen as "feminine", but there are also a lot of political stimuli too.

Very interesting point though. Women look at Marie Antoinette and say "Oh I wish we could still dress like that", but what are WE supposed to say?

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26-04-2011
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I agree that it's not so much of a big deal for women to wear menswear. That topic often comes up in the H&M thread, as a lot of us prefer shopping in the men's department at H&M because menswear, although it generally is more boring than women's, usually is of better quality. I hear it's because men don't shop as trend-oriented and therefore it is more important to them to get good quality items that will hold up well.

I'm also a big fan of designers like Rick Owens and Gareth Pugh who design a lot of unisex clothes. They've been trying to make high heels and skirts for men happen for a while with little success but it's still very interesting to see on the runway and I do like the idea behind it. It's not so much about "OMG that guy is wearing women's shoes" rather than trying to create great shoes that will look good both on women and men, I think. No one expects all guys to wear pink Louboutin platforms, of course.

I absolutely love the idea of women incorporating menswear pieces into their wardrobe and making it look good, whether it may be a masculine look as a whole or just a touch of masculinity to an otherwise girly outfit. The same goes for men, even if it seems to be more difficult for men to pull of typically feminine items. But I think that blouse on Kanye is a good example of making a feminine blouse not looking all that feminine with the rest of the outfit. Women's leather jackets, skinny jeans and basics like cardigans and t-shirts can easily worn by men as well.

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26-04-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squizree View Post
It's quite interesting really. A woman wearing a men's blazer would be viewed as "sexy" or "brave" or "independent"
normally this will result in an odd fit and will look ridiculous, but well it's not that many people will recognize that

imho the unisex clothes have a rather limited audience, which actually have more or less no male and female physical features anyway (+ no fat, no muscles) :p

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Originally Posted by Psylocke View Post
I'm also a big fan of designers like Rick Owens and Gareth Pugh who design a lot of unisex clothes. They've been trying to make high heels and skirts for men happen for a while with little success
It all comes done to: is it accepted by the opposite sex!
If a women wears a suit, men think of an independent (already mentioned by Squizree), strong person a la Marlene Dietrich, if a men wears high heels... not really attractive to women If that doesn't change it will just stay fashion (or limited to subcultures like gothics).

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26-04-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squizree View Post
We look at him now and think "Oh Lord what is he wearing?", but in the 17th Century this was the sh*t! Wearing heels and exposing your legs was seen as a sign of wealth, power, authority and masculinity. If he was alive now, he'd be laughing at us.
masculinity? I believe they never thought of that, they had arranged marriages @ 10-16 years of age, so they simply didn't have "impress" the other sex This is the reason why the gentry accumulated so many genetic disorders.

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26-04-2011
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^ Oh no, I didn't mean masculinity in a sexual/charming kinda way, I meant it in a testosterone kinda way; that is exposing your legs was a sign of how much of a man you were, almost macho.

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26-04-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ErnstLudwig View Post
normally this will result in an odd fit and will look ridiculous, but well it's not that many people will recognize that

imho the unisex clothes have a rather limited audience, which actually have more or less no male and female physical features anyway (+ no fat, no muscles) :p
i dont agree with the ridiculousness... just like Kanye doesnt look ridiculous in that Celine shirt, the women dont have to look ridiculous in mens clothes... when Hedi Slimane was director at Dior Homme, obssessed women were sitting in first row to buy all those men's outfits for themselves...
if you watch these two videos, in first one (Dior Homme SS03) one woman said in the video "can be totally for girl to wear, for the evening, for daytime, whatever... its really great, its really versatile...." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-s7Ke8sWGo
also, Dior Homme FW03: Tim Blanks asked "Now you wear these clothes, dont you". Samantha Taylor Wood says: Yes, I do.. the whole show i was thinking, God that would look good on me. That's what im gonna wear, that's my new look, im gonna cut my hair a little bit shorter... blah blah blah... I think they (clothes) look great on men but will look better on me...." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACLYnna3lSo
not mentioning the picture of Charlize Theron in men suit i posted above... she looks raher smoldering and emancipated that ridiculous...

so this unisex fashion isnt anything new of 2011

men suits might be more appaling to women nowadays cuz mens fashion got more androgynous but you still see oversized or wide mens-suits on womens runways... not even talking about whole era of 70s and 80s with HUGE YSL jackets with shoulderpads!


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Last edited by StrikingFashion; 26-04-2011 at 09:01 AM.
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26-04-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squizree View Post
^ Oh no, I didn't mean masculinity in a sexual/charming kinda way, I meant it in a testosterone kinda way; that is exposing your legs was a sign of how much of a man you were, almost macho.
ah ok, power & status I definitely agree (= male features). And is it a typical absolutistic pose? (I have no clue about the painting style during that time)


@StrikingFashion
I have nothing against suits, blazers etc. on women (I actually like them), but you have to take into account that human morphology is different (like torso, waist-to-hip ratio …). That means if you simply transfer men RTW cuts to a typical women it will most likely look odd.

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Originally Posted by StrikingFashion View Post
i dont agree with the ridiculousness... just like Kanye doesnt look ridiculous in that Celine shirt, the women dont have to look ridiculous in mens clothes...
Bad example, because the shirt was meant to look saggy. He moves, so it’s difficult to judge if the shoulders are ok and the sleeves are long enough.

danger personal opinion:
But what Kanye did looks ridiculous anyway, like a crossover of Mr. T and a hippie. The jewellery, white, those patterns, the ribbons = no fan. And the jeans should be darker to make the shirt work in combination with his skin color.

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26-04-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ErnstLudwig View Post

@StrikingFashion
I have nothing against suits, blazers etc. on women (I actually like them), but you have to take into account that human morphology is different (like torso, waist-to-hip ratio …). That means if you simply transfer men RTW cuts to a typical women it will most likely look odd..
I disagree again. You generalize the women and men body into one stereotype. Even though there are many women who have volumpcious body, nice curves, big cleavage and booty, there are also women who are either too tall, have wide shoulders (Liv Tyler), small boobs or no hips... so i think saying menswear would look ridiculous on women is taken too far. yes, on some feminine women it might not look good, but on some women it might look amazing, even better that womenswear clothes or evening gowns...

Also men do not have the same type of the body... Some are super skinny and can wear skinny jeans.. i cannot even put them on because i have big thighs due to dancing even though overally im skinny... some men are muscular and cannot put those skinny suits on... and lets be serious, how many men have bellies? and after 30 the number rapidly increases... many men and women are overweighed and imo the larger size, the more versatile it is, because differences in the figure are diminishing... i think XL jackets, shirts can suit both women and men equally.... if u consider regular winter quilted jacket in neutral color it can be worn by both men and women... moreover, yes, too-tight men clothing might be noticable on women, but many women prefer oversized clothes... so if woman puts on oversized wife-beater, or suit jacket (like Liv above), it can turn into highly fahshionable...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ErnstLudwig View Post
Bad example, because the shirt was meant to look saggy. He moves, so it’s difficult to judge if the shoulders are ok and the sleeves are long enough.

danger personal opinion:
But what Kanye did looks ridiculous anyway, like a crossover of Mr. T and a hippie. The jewellery, white, those patterns, the ribbons = no fan. And the jeans should be darker to make the shirt work in combination with his skin color.
I do not share your negative opinion about Kanye's outfit. first of all, let's start with your arguments....
the shoulders fit ok and sleeves are long enough:

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Secondly, the judgment of colors and combination or individual pieces as an outfit is very individual due to individual's taste in fashion... Even though, i dont share ur opinion, i respect it... but it cannot be used as a valid argument

thirdly... this shirt is supposed to be saggy as you said because it's basically a dashiki with longer sleeves! I'm astounded that nobody noticed this before....
Dashiki is native African tribal colorful garment widely worn in West Africa that covers the top half of the body, often worn by hippies... so yes, it is supposed to be hippie... and it is unisex in its nature because it can be worn by both men and women... there's nothing special about wearing this type of 'womens' clothing when it was originally worn by African men.... people just wanna be hating and Kanye knows that... it's all a PR thing to get more attention imo...


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26-04-2011
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There seem to be more examples of females adapting more to traditionally masculine styles as opposed to an equal merge. It would be great to see more examples of men's styles embracing the feminine...wouldn't gender neutral require adaptations in both directions, instead of just 'comfortably' typical androgynous females?

the last I heard was men in wedges and a scattering of kilts. I would love to see more concepts emerge out of this.

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