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24-06-2010
  16
flaunt the imperfection
 
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another thing that the internet has done though ---
or should be doing...
is give a platform to young/new designers...

designers can start a website and do ecommerce pretty easily and inexpensively...
it's like opening your own flagship boutique without all the overhead!...
that's a pretty good deal, imo...

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24-06-2010
  17
don't look down
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saann View Post
GQs first issue that was downloadable to your phone was a success and I'm not sure just how Interviews Ipad magazines are doing. But even if they're not selling all that well they're still a success since they apparently cost almost nothing for the company to have.
I think the "it doesn't cost much" concept is a bit of a mirage. In the excitement to prove that there's a solidly profitable future in this, businesses are willing to omit the idea that there are still plenty of costs behind-the-scenes.

Unless the only thing a magazine is doing is flatly scanning its back catalogue into a readable format, there's a lot of technical work going on to make sure everything is in working order in this new interactive product they're putting out - and 'technical' employees cost a lot more than editorial ones do. It's like putting old books on the iPad - people don't realise that they have to be reformatted, and that somebody has to do it.

And all those extra-special features that are the point of switching to a new format - they have to be thought of, designed, coded and checked. A publisher will also have to keep pace with new developments on a daily basis, because there will be no space to lag behind in this new world, in how you deliver your product. It won't just be the content that will need updated on a constant basis, but the architecture of the way that it is presented. So unless a publisher is going to run entirely on rooms full of interns working for free, the issue of "cost" is going to re-emerge as a serious concern at some point, in a world where no-one currently believes in paying that much for online content.

Optimism is great, but there also needs to be hard financial evidence that an industry-saving iPad/iPhone dream is becoming a successful reality, no longer underwritten by print magazine money. Not industry talk, not hope and excitement, not deliberately misleading figures - but the real bottom line. The one that really shows how far publishers have swapped 'old costs' with new ones.

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24-06-2010
  18
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^You make some fabulous points. People don't realize the costs and efforts it takes to digitize a print magazine. And if a magazine says that it cost them nothing then they're flat out lying. Technical know how comes at a costly price in business. Just look at the IT department of any company, much less the people responsible for converting print material into a successful digital format compatible with the myriad of reading devices available now.

Furthermore, I think there is good reason to believe that costs will only increase as people will come to expect more and more from their digital editions. The print medium is quite static....there isn't much more you can do with ink on paper. The digital medium however, is always evolving as the technology changes and becomes more advanced. Who's to say that people won't soon expect and demand much more in terms of special features, videos, sound clips, and 3-D images just because the medium allows it? Costs will catch up sooner or later.

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25-06-2010
  19
flaunt the imperfection
 
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hmmm...
so many good points presented here...

maybe it's going to get even more complicated as we go forward?...
everyone is trying to figure it all out...
but i don't think anyone has a crystal ball to see what the future holds...

aside from the magazine thing...
i think that ecommerce sites have made so many more things accessible...
especially to people who don't live in a major city and would not usually have access to a lot of designer (or even lower priced) items...

and i think that's pretty cool...


***it's ALL moving much faster now too...isn't it?!?...
because the internet is 24/7 and most blogs/sites add new content on a daily basis...
so there is a hunger they are all trying to feed, that they seem to have created themselves...
is the public really hungry for new content every single day?...
isn't once a week enough...
or how about just one new thing every day...
rather than 10 new things every day...

at a certain point you are going to lose the viewer/reader if you overwhelm them with too much content, imho...

...

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Last edited by softgrey; 25-06-2010 at 06:28 PM.
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25-06-2010
  20
don't look down
 
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Maybe fashion and the internet bring out the worst in each other - fashion trains people to consume without any regard for whether they truly need what they're so desperate to get, and the internet conditions people to believe that "what's new" is the most important experience of being online. Splice them together and... you end up with a prescription for attention deficit disorder and one hell of a credit card debt.

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28-06-2010
  21
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there's as well the issue of "instant gratification" of online magazines ,,, I mean .. on the print media you see an ad and you think I want it and you either call or wait til its out and head to the stores ... with online magazines you just click on the banner and Voila! you have what you wanted on its way to your doorstep! (which brings up another topic which is online shopping vs actual -store- shopping

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29-06-2010
  22
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That is a distinctive advantage to advertisers and a huge reason to advertise in on line mags ..... impulse buying at it's best!

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29-06-2010
  23
flaunt the imperfection
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ultramarine View Post
there's as well the issue of "instant gratification" of online magazines ,,, I mean .. on the print media you see an ad and you think I want it and you either call or wait til its out and head to the stores ... with online magazines you just click on the banner and Voila! you have what you wanted on its way to your doorstep! (which brings up another topic which is online shopping vs actual -store- shopping

good one sir...
i think you should go ahead and start a thread about that in the shop til you drop section!!!...



i'll be waiting...
...:p

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29-06-2010
  24
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wwd / june 21, 2010

Quote:
Fashion Brands Rush to Web, But Not to Advertise
by Lisa Lockwood

The world is online — yet fashion brands are still reluctant to advertise there.

Ad experts say that even as fashion brands shift more of their marketing spend online, they aren’t clamoring to place their ads on the Web as much as they are using it for e-commerce, blogs, posting news about their brands and building social networks. Among the reasons are:

• Impactful fashion imagery doesn’t translate as well online.

• There is too much clutter on the Web and their ads don’t stand out.

• It’s debatable whether online fashion ads actually move merch.

“Look at the initial forms of advertising online — window ads and banner ads, they’re so miniscule. You couldn’t get your message across. They [fashion brands] couldn’t grasp we were going into a new world,” said David Lipman, owner of ad agency Lipman. He noted some nonfashion brands have successfully used rich media online, such as creating takeovers, 3-D animation and dynamic motion. “Bigger mass brands were doing that. Fashion brands were way behind. They were stuck with banner ads,” said Lipman.

Executives see several different futures for fashion advertising, depending on a customers’ age, attitude and comfort level with the digital world. In many scenarios, print remains a core buy, especially as a way to reinforce a luxury image and sell merchandise, but it’s now only one part of a multichannel platform that mixes print, online, outdoor, mobile, TV and social networking tools such as Facebook and Twitter.

The whole definition of advertising is being turned upside down. Brands are beginning to create their own “editorial” content online in efforts to market themselves and build their own audiences and databases. They are increasingly shifting spending from traditional advertising to funding their own Web sites.

For luxury advertisers — whose seasonal ads with beautiful models photographed in fabulous locations in the past made the March and September issues of fashion magazines as thick as telephone books and where “positioning” has always been pivotal — the migration to the Web has been slow to come. Ad executives noted advertisers who have tried to imitate their print ads online haven’t had much success since online ads need to offer an experience — a call to action with various links to engage readers. In essence, it’s a totally different ball game.

“Marketers in general are struggling with the transition [online], particularly categories that have been very reliant on traditional media in the past,” said Tim Calkins, clinical professor of marketing at the Kellogg School of Management at Northwestern University. “If you’ve been very dependent on print and TV historically, it’s challenging. Part of the challenge is creativity, especially with image-driven categories. How do you do that on the Web successfully?”

For fashion advertisers in print publications, “the advertising is part of the experience. In the online space, it’s not the case,” he said. Calkins believes there’s a deep understanding of how traditional print and TV work, which is more uncertain online. “In a sense, it’s a scary change, and it also opens up enormous opportunities. It gives marketers a chance to interact with the consumer on a deeper level. There’s a new level of communication and involvement. The transition is under way, and you can’t stop it. All you can do is participate in it,” said Calkins.

A recent study by the Society of Digital Agencies has shown a continued upward surge in digital media investment for 2010. The study showed that 81 percent of brand executives surveyed expected to increase their digital projects in 2010, and 50 percent will be moving dollars from traditional to digital budgets. Some 78 percent felt the economy would push more funds to digital media.

For the first time, digital spending is expected to eclipse print ad spending this year, according to an Outsell Inc. study of 1,008 advertisers. Companies will spend $119.6 billion on online and digital strategies (which includes online publications, video, search engine keywords and e-mail) versus $111.5 billion in print, such as newspaper and magazine ads. Overall U.S. spending on advertising and marketing will increase in 2010 by 1.2 percent to $368 billion, according to the Outsell study.

As the economy has improved, fashion magazines have witnessed a slight return of advertisers even with the digital boom. For the first half, magazines experienced an upswing in ad pages, compared with a disastrous 2009, but they’re still off from 2008. Marie Claire, Harper’s Bazaar, Vanity Fair, Cosmopolitan, InStyle, Vogue, Allure, Elle and Lucky were all up in ad pages for the first half, with gains ranging from 2 to 22 percent, according to Media Industry Newsletter.

Magazines continue to benefit from the fact that even though online ads tend to be much cheaper than print ones, users tend to ignore banners and cancel pop-up ads, finding them intrusive and disruptive — while a print ad tends to be noticeable. Fashion advertisers would prefer to take over the whole screen with their imagery, but readers would obviously get annoyed. That’s why fashion magazine publishers are greeting the iPad and its fellow e-readers with acclaim since beautiful images and videos (although iPads don’t support videos in the Flash format) translate well to this new medium, say advertising pros.
3140107

The iPad offers the best of both worlds — a digital device that can mirror the appearance and experience of reading a print magazine and, with Internet access, can provide links to the social network phenomenon that is obsessing fashion brands.

“Every client who walks through our door is essentially yelling, ‘Facebook,’” said Neil Kraft, president of Kraftworks. “They want the Web, but don’t know how to use it. What happens with social media is much more of an investment of the client’s time. They have to invest in people [to manage it].”

Echoing others, Kraft said the rush to the Web reminds him of when outdoor advertising began, and everyone thought advertisers would abandon print. “You still can’t replace the look and feel of a print ad,” said Kraft.

“Fashion magazines are one of the few places where the ads are just as important as the editorial,” said Kyle Acquistapace, executive vice president of media planning at Deutsch Los Angeles. “Even though a consumer can see an entire runway show online, curation matters. That’s why magazines are important. Fashion [magazines] are about telling me what matters and giving me a point of view.”

He pointed out that current industry formats for online fashion ads “don’t allow for overwhelming beauty.” However, he believes the iPad is bound to change that.

“GQ has never looked more beautiful [than on an iPad]. It’s like looking at PDFs of the magazine. It definitely ups the game, but you can’t share an article and post it onto a social network. There are rights issues.”

He believes fashion brands need to be advertised in many different places. “More has to be brought to the party to stay relevant. Things feel important when people see them in a lot of places. Anybody who has a one-dimensional approach to marketing” will be in trouble, he said.

According to media and consumer research firm GfK MRI, the audience is up for magazines, so it’s a case of readers gravitating toward both the Web and print, versus the Web or print, said Edward Menicheschi, publisher of Vanity Fair. Total adult readership of print magazines and newspapers increased about 1 percent this spring versus spring 2009, said GfK MRI.

Fashion advertisers that run buys on vf.com include Banana Republic, Bloomingdale’s, Bulgari, Ralph Lauren, Dolce & Gabbana, Burberry and St. John. “Each of these is an important print spender so the Web is an addition,” said Menicheschi, who noted that most brands’ stated goal is to make their e-commerce Web site their number-one door.

“On the social media side, there is real activity from brand to brand in Twitter and Facebook, but there is not hard data as yet on if these efforts are generating sales. That said, there is a great deal of experimentation and audiences being built such as Burberry’s Art of the Trench,” he said. “I think it is really about being relevant to the consumer across media that they find of real value. Print has real value to consumers, but so does mobile. The key is to find a manner and message that is correct (and on brand) at each touch point,” he said.

Where one stands on the digital issue is clearly a generational thing.

“Who’s running 90 percent of fashion companies?” asked Kraft. “It’s people in their 50s and 60s.” Historically, fashion advertisers, whether it be Chanel, Prada or Calvin Klein, worried about the size of their print ads, their inserts and positioning. That’s been the conversation for years, and it’s a tough one to abandon.

“I think the one thing people tend to be most sure of is the younger generation has completely checked out of print,” said Doug Lloyd, owner of Lloyd & Co., the ad agency. “If the demographic is tweens to college age, there’s no way around it,” said Lloyd, referring to the necessity to be online with ads. For the new Selena Gomez line of clothing for Kmart, he’s using a combination of print, outdoor, broadcast-cable TV and a digital plan and social networking aspect.

After such a tough 2009 for all kinds of advertising, a lot of brands dropped out of advertising altogether, he said. Many brands shifted to the p.r. bucket, and social media may have fallen under that. “Social marketing is a great medium, but it’s less easily controlled. Fashion brands usually are strict about trying to control their image. It’s more of a wild card,” said Lloyd.

That leads to another problem facing fashion advertisers: giving up control. By engaging in social media, brands put their reputations and images on the line, risking potential controversy in hopes of entertaining, provoking and informing their followers.

“Big fashion companies are scared to death to lose control,” said Madonna Badger, partner in Badger and Winters Group, an ad agency. “Most people accept the fact they don’t have any control [online]. The more they try and control it, the more irrelevant they become.”

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Last edited by kimair; 29-06-2010 at 04:48 PM.
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29-06-2010
  25
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great article touching on a lot of points that have been brought up in this thread already...

thanks kim.....

i'm especially intrigued by the ipad comments...
i definitely agree that it is a good digital platform for fashion advertising...
sounds like everyone is thinking the same thing...

:p

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29-06-2010
  26
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i think the more the fashion industry tries to resist the rise of the internet the more difficult it will be for them to compete. the fashion industry is incredibly powerful & magazine's still reign supreme over all. magazines & fashion publication's are the reason that forums like this are alive. without magazine's we have nothing to scan & thus nothing to build our editorial blogs around. i've read that magazine sales are up for the simple fact that people are still intensely interested in something they can see hold & feel. just like tv was a threat to radio & movies were a threat to television- the internet is a threat to publication. but it should be used as another media outlet for fashion. they should take advantage of what is being held in front of them. & trust- if V magazine is emailing you a full editorial for you to post on your blog- you will post it-which goes to show that editors hold the power. they have the power to dictate what certain blogs post by simply clicking 'send' from their office. if more focus is held to digital release & exclusives are used accordingly the realm of fashion will be that much more powerful. its a very exciting time for us in fashion because everything we want comes to us faster. you no longer have to fly to paris to see a show if you can see it through live feed- however, nothing feels better than feeling the bass pump on the runway as you see mariacarla boscono walk at a givenchy show in person. we all want more, faster, in better quality. & the internet allows those dreams to become a reality.


Last edited by jeremydante; 29-06-2010 at 05:53 PM.
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29-06-2010
  27
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advertising is all about the "impressions" a company is making...
whether the appearance results in direct sales isn't always the most important thing...
but it helps develop people's concepts and perceptions about the brand..

i still think magazines are an important mode for fashion advertising (even as the actual print magazines continue to get skinnier and skinnier)..
they're an important impression to make, an important association
but as many of you have mentioned, the internet is having a huge effect on everything and magazines need to have content and websites that work as added values for their print advertisers.
i work for a magazine (not a fashion magazine), and advertisers always want to know what the added values are of being featured on our website.
we want to keep our advertisers happy.. especially those who are paying the big bucks...
(magazines make a pittance on subscriptions and newsstand sales, you just want the big numbers distribution-wise to attract more advertisers - my boss is convinced that the whole distribution situation is a complete mafia-run racket)
but, the more the advertisers spend, the more we want to feature them and give them added value in other ways
and i think a lot of companies like co-sponsored events and parties etc.
they like the association with the name brand of the magazine and i don't think that will change any time soon
again, parties and events are another impression these companies are making

i don't think that the magazine content will ever completely be obsolete or move completely online (though as many of you also mentioned, the ipad can certainly make inroads on that)...
but, it won't ever be in the traditional format i think...
you can't just put out one issue a month and not have additional new content coming in all the time...
i think you kind of need the physical issue to anchor the rest of the content..
i don't know... i could be wrong
but i'm also one of those people who's a big reader and magazine lover and has been resisting digital the kindle/ipad etc (though i think the concepts behind them are great and so convenient for travel)


but, on another, non-magazine related note...
i think burberry is sort of one to watch right now when it comes to their use of the internet...
weren't people able to pre-order pieces online on the same day that they produced their runway show??
and isn't burberry now producing interactive fashion shows or videos, or something to that nature?
I think that's pretty AMAZING and cutting edge...
i think of them as the trailblazers right now...
they just stand out to me at the moment as being really forward thinking when it comes to using the internet to promote their business and make their merchandise more easily accessible


Last edited by ChrissyM; 29-06-2010 at 05:55 PM.
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03-07-2010
  28
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In a way, I won't really miss the death of the conventional magazines, I'm so sick of seeing the same photographers, editors, stylists regurgitating the same tripe over and over for years. Ideally, more $$$ should flow to the internet zines, but tbh, I haven't seen really good content on the internet yet that will replace conventional boring magazines.

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04-07-2010
  29
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I don't think they'll ever go away because the internet still has a very big problem with piracy. I don't doubt magazines that are online, have a problem with being duplicated /saved, then sent to friends for free. If there's no way to do that, i'm sure someone can easily find a way..print screen a page, then put it into pdf format and redistribute. With actual magazines you can't do that as easily. I don't think it's the internet that's doing away with magazines, i think it's also the lack of creativity and recycled content that's no longer original why some have stopped purchasing them

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04-07-2010
  30
flaunt the imperfection
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zazie View Post
In a way, I won't really miss the death of the conventional magazines, I'm so sick of seeing the same photographers, editors, stylists regurgitating the same tripe over and over for years. Ideally, more $$$ should flow to the internet zines, but tbh, I haven't seen really good content on the internet yet that will replace conventional boring magazines.
yeah-
i have to say that i wouldn't mind seeing some of those dynasties crumble...


make room for some other people, would ya?!...
i mean....
there have to be more than 20 talented photographers in the world...right?!?...
the law of averages says that there MUST be...

yet, you wouldn't think so looking at fashion mags for the last 10-15 years..
...

** i have to add though, that i have worked with a LOT of photogs ...
and it isn't as easy to find really gifted ones as you might think...

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Last edited by softgrey; 04-07-2010 at 09:43 AM.
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