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13-12-2011
  151
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I react the most to the kind of looks that make me feel that we are americanized and hyperfeminine at the same time.

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13-12-2011
  152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PinkGoddess View Post
I didn't say that all feminists do, merely radical feminists. They do not comprise a large majority of all feminists, but they are certainly the loudest, and as a result have been given a grossly unwarranted amount of media attention, resulting in the unfortunate popular image of feminism that we have now.

And the proof of my assertion that many such feminists want to imitate men, is as I have pointed out, their belief that a woman is 'unliberated' if she does not encompass male qualities and successes, despite the fact that they do not see men as such for not achieving or carrying out traditionally female responsibilities.
As tigerrouge pointed out, though, sometimes the militant people backing any cause are needed to get the ball rolling, so to speak, to draw attention to the issue - hence they do get the media attention, but it filters down to a more reasonable position generally. Also, I don't think feminism has such a bad reputation right now, does it? Certainly many celebs and other feminists speak out on behalf of women all over the world, which makes them feminists and proud of it.

Also, regarding your assertion -- "many such feminists want to imitate men...[they believe] that a woman is 'unliberated' if she does not encompass male qualities...despite the fact that they do not see men as such for not achieving or carrying out traditionally female responsibilities" I have to disagree. I just don't think it is true. Indeed, the other day I heard a radio program on which feminist panelists AND callers were speaking out to support any and all women who want to work in the home or stay home to raise their children; they were not saying these women were "unliberated" at all! They were saying these women need support and need to be respected for what they do. I am certain they would say and feel the same about men who wanted to raise children. Like I say, I don't know where you get your notions about feminists or feminism, but they seem very negative. To me, feminism is about opportunity and freedom of choice, and from what I have seen, many feminists are feminine, whether they work at home or run a company.

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13-12-2011
  153
Power to the 99%
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PinkGoddess View Post
Yes, but our unconscious instincts do not transform overnight; it takes thousands of years for a biological trait to evolve. And as I have said, there is no fine line between a trait determined by nature and one by society, as man is a social animal is therefore naturally influenced and shaped by social order. That social order has always existed and has always affected our biology, just as it has the vast majority of animals on Earth.



I don't recall saying that.



Yes, but those arrangements are unethical and treat certain groups as inferior, eliminating the right of choice for many individuals. The right of individual choice should always be of utmost concern, and I never said that it shouldn't.



Opposing the status quo and improving are not mutually exclusive with specializing based on our inherent qualities; on the contrary, it was specialization that allowed us to evolve to the level we are now in the first place.
I don't really know how long it takes a biological trait to evolve, but I see no reason to be driven by biology. When my grandmother was born less than 100 years ago, women in the US didn't have the right to vote. Now we have that and much more. I believe that we should take full advantage of our status as a higher species and choose to evolve our society. Some species may have no choice about whether to be driven solely by their instincts. We, however, do.

Advancing as a species is not just a luxury; it is now a matter of our collective survival. We now need all of our skills, and all of our perspectives ... we can no longer allow patriarchy to throw half of the human skillset down a rathole. We cannot afford for women to be relegated (and to relegate themselves) to the passenger seat.

I don't see how your statement doesn't apply to women being second class citizens just as fully as the other previously "normal" and accepted practices I mentioned.

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13-12-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rova View Post
I react the most to the kind of looks that make me feel that we are americanized and hyperfeminine at the same time.
That's interesting ... tell me more about 'Americanized.'

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14-12-2011
  155
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fashionista-ta:

I think for me as a Swedish person it is impossible not to react to American influence since we love to hate America at the same time we go on imitating American culture.
If there is a trend among women to dress like 50's housewives and bake cupcakes I suspect that it says more about other values (lifestyle, social, political, cultural etc) than other random super feminine trends such as dressing like a Japanese lolita or a Ukranian bride.

My mothers generation always blamed America for having us shaving legs. They didn't blame the French for bringing feminine shapes to the world because they at least had this romantic perception of French women with hairy armpits.


Last edited by Rova; 14-12-2011 at 03:59 AM.
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14-12-2011
  156
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If you say "1950s fashion" to me, the first thing that comes to my mind is not America, but the Teddy Boys (and Girls) of Britain, who came from lower-class backgrounds and worked in factories, but took great pride in their appearance.

And while the style was associated with young people, it also referred back to the clothing their grandparents had worn during the Edwardian era, so the idea of a different generation reusing past fashions to send their own social message is certainly nothing new...

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14-12-2011
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Tigerrouge: The funny thing is though that people want to dress in 1950's style after watching Mad Men and they want to bake cupcakes which I'm sure the teddy boys never did.
I think a lot of people in Sweden want to make the 50's style more American than it perhaps was back in the days.

I don't know the history of burlesque but I know people who like to pose in corsets because they look up to Dita Von Teese.

It's hard to explain but since I live in a country that likes to borrow from American culture i pick up on those things. There is a lot of different take on 50's style. I'm talking about when someone makes it (what they think is) stereotypical American.

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18-12-2011
  158
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well- speaking strictly from a fashion point of view...
there's bound to be some backlash to all of the edgy darkness that has basically gone mainstream now...
'girl with the dragon tattoo' kind of stuff...
a lot of stuff that rick owens does and ann demeulemeester...etc...
stuff that used to cater to a very particular niche consumer is now being knocked of by mass market chain stores...

it's only natural that there should start to bubble up some alternative options for those fashion forward people who have already been wearing that look for several seasons now and are ready for a change...
those people usually are pretty tired of something by the time it has gone mass...

and that's what prada does here and has done historically...
presents alternatives to what everyone else is doing...
gives us a glimpse into the future...

i'd say we should be looking carefully at this...
it may not be literal- but there is bound to be something here that is at least a hint at where fashion is going next...

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19-01-2012
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this trend is in hyper speed off the cliff. i am not convinced its going to find its way onto the backs of anyone but "need to seen fashion people". the colors are wimpy, its way too busy...discombobulated, retro feminine, wannabe, grasping at straws, design prowness. prada, marc jacobs (as two examples) have done this ultra feminine theme so well before but nothing about the recent offerings comes off as a successful venture into opposing waters of the dark side. its a miss this season by giant proportions.

my eyes hurt looking at the current editorials in elle and bazaar, which are truly bazaar and very uptight.


Last edited by luckyme; 19-01-2012 at 02:56 PM.
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19-01-2012
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^ I don't know ... I can kind of appreciate the lightness of some of it. It looks to me to be gathering momentum ...

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24-01-2012
  161
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For some there may be deeper albeit darker motivations, but for some I think that it is just a nod to what may seem a more clearly defined roles. This may be mixed up and wrong at times, but what harm is there, it is fun to look feminine and pretty at times.

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27-01-2012
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I believe the hyperfeminity trend has been incubating in the culture for some time especially since 9/11 and the designers are just capitalizing on that direction.

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27-01-2012
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^ Surely it doesn't take ten years for a trend to hatch?

I'm a feminist, but I think there are lots better things to worry about than this trend ... I say just enjoy the lovely guipure lace, and this too shall pass

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29-01-2012
  164
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This may be a trend for some, but certainly not for others. For some people vintage is a lifestyle thing that has little to do w/ where mainstream fashion is going. Of course, what this "means" is as individual as the person choosing to wear it. Methinks there's a direct (and perhaps negative) reaction to fashion's offerings in recent years that's driving much of it. I'm not so sure this is a trend in the truest sense either or that it's going away.

I definitely think that there's many undercurrents here, but let me just deal w/ one. Frankly not all fashion compliments all body shapes, so what do you do if you don't have the body that's currently "in"? Do you choose to wear what's in even if you look badly in it? Do you go vintage, make up your own look, etc? Given that there's so many choices out there and that the dictates of fashion are a lot less powerful than they once were...the sky's the limit. You're free to create your own look w/o really worrying about what mag X says is THE look for fall.

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