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06-10-2006
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I understand the emotion(?) involved whenever "Made in China" labels pop up...but sometimes it is rather upsetting that people can not accept that China can produce highest quality of goods, too.

As for as human rights are concerned, I must point out that, yes, the mainland Communist Chinese do not have wonderfully clear and clean records but so do many other countries we perceive as "democratic" and "fair"... There are so many things PRC has to work on but it is very unfair, I still think. What about the meat industry here in the US? Are they anything less cruel towards the animals?

I respect and agree the fact that when we purchase a expensive luxury item, we would prefer it to stick to its origin: French designer to France, shoes from Italy....but in a world as small as today and cooperations trying to cut the costs for more profits, it's very difficult and the Chinese workers should really not be blamed for the frauds of the business decision makers. When it comes to making these luxe goods, they don't even know what they are making for or how much it sells

Sometimes I wonder, given the imho, glorious history of Chinese texiles, why do people consider fabric the Chinese make inferior nowadays...? I must conclude that a nation's prestige is the diplomatic capital, and terrible images of PRC really turns off the efforts of the craftsmen in China and everywhere else.

TSE is a Hong Kong Label, I think. So it would make sense for the cashmere to be manufactured in China...


Last edited by augustus; 06-10-2006 at 11:34 AM.
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06-10-2006
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BCBG, Versace, and D&G are made in China. The TAGS are made in Italy though, so technically they aren't lying. Sort of...

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06-10-2006
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I suppose we should just all accept that even though China is run very bad (with they way they treat animals in general, and animals on fur farms) we should look at the positive side, like how some of their clothing companies are light years ahead of the rest of the world as far as making top quality clothing for low wages than other countries. If its good enough for D&G, isnt it good enough for all of us here at the fashion spot?

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07-10-2006
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so, where the garment ultimately is finished is the deciding factor in what goes on the label (either made in italy or made in china)?

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07-10-2006
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Ive just bought the Burberry runway umbrella (black with check inside lining) which is not that cheap (170 EUR).
And the nice surprise was, when I was at home, the little "made in china" tag
Which is sad

I assume there aren't any jobless people in England

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Last edited by belletrist; 07-10-2006 at 08:17 AM.
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07-10-2006
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Quote:
Their record on human rights abuses (including systematic executions, use of torture, forced terminations), environmental pollution on a vast scale and animal welfare (beating dogs to death if the owner does not posess a license) - makes me not want to buy products made in China. Quality doesn't really come into it - I haven't noticed that the quality of their products is any worse than those produced for example in Eastern Europe. I was surprised to see that the new Biba line fronted now by Bella Freud is produced in China another reason not to admire this re-launch!
Quote:
Ive just bought the Burberry runway umbrella (black with check inside lining) which is not that cheap (170 EUR).
And the nice surprise was, when I was at home, the little "made in china" tag
Which is sad

I assume there aren't any jobless people in England
It's a little tragic how misinformed and ultimately, assuming people can become especially when the topic revolves around the PRC. Unfortunately China's painful past has left a significant stigma when it comes to dealing with anything related to the country and the increase in the number of companies which choose to manufacture their goods in China is viewed unhappily by a large majority of people in the West (and, admittedly, the East, too).

First of all, again, as augustus has pointed out, it is unfair to devalue China's industry on sole account of its somewhat shady government because admittedly, no country can confidently declare every single component of its industry to be clean, pure and free from controversy.

Secondly I would like to point out that belletrist's comment is at best a little insensitive. It is difficult to make out what exactly you are attempting to imply about China's economy - that only jobless people will want to do manufacturing? That manufacturing is so lowly a job that only jobless people will be willing to do? Or that expensive goods like designer items e.g. Burberry umbrellas should not be made in a place that also manufactures cheap goods in bulk - i.e. China?

I might be a little too sensitive and jumping on every single problematic bit, but I think it's important to be wary of the implications of what you say. I might note that there ARE on this board either people who are Chinese, who live in China, or have visited China before. And assuredly, many of them can confirm that yes, China can and does indeed produce high-quality goods for export to other nations.

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07-10-2006
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/\agreed, and china is a fashion capital as far as REAL designer goods go. they manufacture the fakes to appease the market for them in the US ( not saying that girls anywhere else in the world are free from fakes, but the market for them seems to be predominately US based), but from what i have heard, chinese women are keen for having the latest bag from whatever luxury line, and last seasons bags go to resale shops because they are "out". but carrying a fake is BAD BAD BAD!

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10-10-2006
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It is rather sad that the factories and hand finishing studios in the UK are going almost totally bust because everything is being shipped over to china...

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10-10-2006
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Globalization is a fact of life. Americans have been bickering about losing jobs overseas forever. It was once thought Japanese cars were inferior to American cars. Now Toyota trucks are more American than most Chevy's and of a higher quality. Just a sign of the times. I once worked in a shop where I machined racing crankshafts that said 'Made in America' and yet was cut from Chinese alloy stock. Makes you wonder...

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11-10-2006
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[quote=EdanChrysler]

Secondly I would like to point out that belletrist's comment is at best a little insensitive. It is difficult to make out what exactly you are attempting to imply about China's economy - that only jobless people will want to do manufacturing? That manufacturing is so lowly a job that only jobless people will be willing to do? Or that expensive goods like designer items e.g. Burberry umbrellas should not be made in a place that also manufactures cheap goods in bulk - i.e. China?quote]

You misunderstood me.
First, there is nothing bad about manufacturing. Hermès or Chanel manufacturers are highly skilled, trained, and are well paid.
In a very near future, the high end maisons, such as Lesage, Lemarié, or even some jewellers or furriers will have economical problems. Because the people who work for them are apparently too much paid according to LVMH-PPR-Prada chairmen.
Second: If, considering what I've just said, people are willing, in England, to produce Burberry products, WHY do you make some products in China.
That's ridiculous, the minimum that a luxury brand must worry about is to produce good quality products, at least that was the case a fex decades ago, now people are only appealed by the brand.
You can't deny that something made by a skilled worker in Europe will be better in term of quality that something mass produced in overseas sweatshops can you?
And no, the same factory shouldn't produce 10$ umbrellas and 250 Burberry umbrellas. That's not my conception of "luxury". Think that even the hermès boxes and shopping bags are produced in France. And yes, Hermès is still a HUGE luxury empire.

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11-10-2006
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belletrist There are actually several layers to your questions.

First, should the Chinese workers be blamed for their competitive wage, or should the blame lie on LVMH, PPR----publicly traded co-operations in FRANCE and EUROPE who believe they need to cut their cost for more profit? I think it is extremely unfair, and rather ethnocentric to blame the Chinese for the decisions of the "foreigners"

The second question is really the core: Are goods produced in workers China, Vietnam, India inferior to produced in UK, or anywhere of the World? Well, that's really up to one's own opinion. But if these luxury companies truly value quality control over profit, and if the Chinese workers are not on par with it, then they should, under the business ethnics, drop the umbrellas made by Chinese workers. Ultimately, these companies are the ones who send out orders to the local manufacturers---they are the decision makers.

I'd like to remind you that Umbrellas' invention(the ones we use now) are credited to the Chinese. I discourage Chinese to dwell in their past glory(its dangerous to do so), but it is just most unfair, imho, to put down the diligence of some of the Chinese people like this.

Lastly, I really wonder if the unemployed workers in Britain are truly willing to work on the incredibly low wages of those in China, Vietnam or Romania? If their skill is truly so superior, then I don't see why their own business leader shouldn't reward them by employments.

Sorry, can't articulate very well, worked 26 hours straight.

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11-10-2006
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i remember reading that prada was sourcing a factory in china.

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11-10-2006
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Whats the point of discussing?
we should boycott that!!!
Please do that! chinese made should be sold for chinese!

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11-10-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamieCD
Whats the point of discussing?
we should boycott that!!!
Please do that! chinese made should be sold for chinese!
Fine American cars can only be sold to American, Italian ready-to-wear can only be sold to Italian, Japanese electronics can be sold only to Japanese. Great, we're back to day one without trade and communication

oh, and Burberry umbrella. I don't have a problem with them producing umbrella in England. I don't buy a Burberry umbrella anyway. The problem is that they will probably end up charging you $500 for such an umbrella to be able to afford Kate Moss' ads. Are you going to be able to afford a $500 umbrella or willing to spend $500 for the check marks?

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11-10-2006
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[quote=belletrist]
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdanChrysler

Secondly I would like to point out that belletrist's comment is at best a little insensitive. It is difficult to make out what exactly you are attempting to imply about China's economy - that only jobless people will want to do manufacturing? That manufacturing is so lowly a job that only jobless people will be willing to do? Or that expensive goods like designer items e.g. Burberry umbrellas should not be made in a place that also manufactures cheap goods in bulk - i.e. China?quote]

You misunderstood me.
First, there is nothing bad about manufacturing. Hermès or Chanel manufacturers are highly skilled, trained, and are well paid.
In a very near future, the high end maisons, such as Lesage, Lemarié, or even some jewellers or furriers will have economical problems. Because the people who work for them are apparently too much paid according to LVMH-PPR-Prada chairmen.
Second: If, considering what I've just said, people are willing, in England, to produce Burberry products, WHY do you make some products in China.
That's ridiculous, the minimum that a luxury brand must worry about is to produce good quality products, at least that was the case a fex decades ago, now people are only appealed by the brand.
You can't deny that something made by a skilled worker in Europe will be better in term of quality that something mass produced in overseas sweatshops can you?
And no, the same factory shouldn't produce 10$ umbrellas and 250 Burberry umbrellas. That's not my conception of "luxury". Think that even the hermès boxes and shopping bags are produced in France. And yes, Hermès is still a HUGE luxury empire.
There are two things that decide the quality of the products.

1. craftsmanship. it's up to the craftsmen. Look at how much western people are paying for Chinese fine art - paintings, jewelry, and antiques, you'll know if there are good craftsmen in China. And for the record, there are Chinese women working for Chanel Haute Couture in Paris.It's not like they forget how to work once they are located in China

2. quality control.it's up to your own western companies. If they don't do a good job monitoring the quality, hey, don't blame the Chinese.

There are MANY fine designers and craftsmen in China, and it's unfair of you to compare Hermes studio with the "sweatshops". Don't you know that there are many garments with rubbish quality made in France, England and Italy? Do your own research and think by using your own brain, doll.

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