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20-06-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsoma View Post
Interesting thread,really.
But I more interested about which tag is better(i mean the quallity):
'Made in China/Korea/Thailand/Vietnam' ?
I think that (South) Korea manufactures meet european standards, since it is a very western country.

Taxes and labour are similar to the ones in europe.

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20-06-2010
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It all the reputation that China have shown to the world.
Made in China = bad quality and made in France = excellent quality...
That's totally bull****, if u ever visit the factory for real. U wouldnt say that. I agree that certain amount of the factory in China are bad. But Some of them are really good and A lot of them are improving...,,,,

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21-06-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surver View Post
...

the other trick is alot of the italian and french so-called luxury manufacturers on ground in europe 'import' and use [illegal] chinese immigrants to do the work because of cheap pay...
This is true. I couple of years ago I watched a short documentary on how the big Italian houses make their products. They showed a factory somewhere in Northern Italy that was making bags for Dolce and Gabbana and all the workers were Chinese. Dolce and Gabbana would pay the factory around 30 euro for each bag. The journalist was looking at the bags and acknowledged the good quality. But later she came back with police and they found Chinese workers living in the basement of the factory and not seeing the light of day for days because they are illegal and afraid of being caught. The whole scene was heartbreaking, the police was lining all these skinny workers against a wall to take them away and deport them back to China.

They also showed a leather shop where Roberto Cavalli commissions his bag. It was a whole different story: a well lit air-conditioned place with big work spaces for Italian craftsmen working with real Italian certified leather. He pays about 300 euro per bag. The journalist asked the master craftsman "Do you think it is fair for Cavalli to buy the bags from you for 300 and sell them for 900+ euro?" and he said "Yes, I think it is a reasonable price.".

There was a little piece on Prada and an Italian shop that was making the bags. The owner was facing bankruptcy and about to close the shop because he couldn't pay his workers reasonable salaries: Prada wouldn't pay enough for the labour, making it impossible for him to continue his business.

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22-06-2010
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^ Yes, I saw a transcript of that documentary.

Roberto Cavalli is a star, from that POV (shame he still deals in fur and non by-product exotics, but so do most designers, of course) and his is one of the few brands that are still worth the money (or most of it!).

I don't have a problem with designer goods being made in China, as long as the design houses are totally honest about it, charge an amount commensurate with what they have paid for manufacture and make sure they choose* clean, safe, well-run factories, with well paid, non-overworked workers and no workers under the age of 16.


* Or, ideally, build their own factories, to make sure they're not being shown one [good] factory, when the goods are actually then going to be produced in another [bad] one; which happens all the time, apparently.


Last edited by chloehandbags; 22-06-2010 at 04:20 AM.
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22-06-2010
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Does anyone know anything about Bottega Veneta and manufacutres?

I know that Bottega opened a school to train young italians how to work properly with leather. I've also read an interview with Thomas Maier, who said, that he has to pay 26€ (if I remeber correctly) an hour for a well trained italian seamstress.

Does Bottega has it's own facotries?


There's also this interesting thread at the stylezeitgeist forum, where various italian manufactures are listed. Most of them produce for various labels.
http://www.stylezeitgeist.com/forums...ead.php?t=2531

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22-06-2010
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Bottega Veneta produces in Vicenza, Italy. I have been there, they have a little outlet. The factory is actually not that big.

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22-06-2010
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i'm kinda late on this thread but i just wanna express my opinion.
i always feel it's weird when people make a fuss when a designer make their products in china and by saying that it's child labour, support terrorism thing. honestly, is there really a prove about china factories support terrorism? and about child labour, honestly people have to know what it's like in there.
i don't live in china but i live in 3rd world country, and children are walking around in the street at nights begging for money in lamp light crossing by knocking car's windows, and when people don't give em money, sometime they say bad things to the people in the car like "stingy" or other rude things. i really do think it's better if these children who have to look for money anyway have a real job to do.
i never approve of begging, i think everyone should earn their money or at least trying, and would it be better if they have a factory where they can work and to pay their school or support their family?
not all governments are as supporting unemployment like america or europe, in some countries it's people for the people.

what i don't like is when designers make their products in china and only stitch the label in italy or france to make it right to say "made in italy" or "made in france"
why don't they just say it?

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22-06-2010
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^ From what I've seen on documentaries, many child workers are seriously injured by the machinery, though, seahorse (many lose limbs, for example); especially as the factory owners often remove the guards to speed up the pace of manufacture and the hours are so long that the children eventually lose concentration.

Whether that is better, or worse, than begging (where I appreciate that they may be abducted and physically and/or sexually abused and/or mutilated to make them more efficient beggars) I don't know(?) but, either way, I don't want to feel that I am paying (especially well over the odds!) for goods that may well have been produced in that way.

I'd have thought that, even in this economy (and unlike the lower end of the highstreet), top R-T-W design houses are still in the enviable position of being able to easily afford to pay for decent working conditions (whether in Europe, or elsewhere). So, for many of them to still choose not to, just to make themselves even more money and then (as if that isn't enough!) to often, also, go on to lie about place of manufacture on the label, is just completely unacceptable, IMO.

Talk about adding insult to injury!


Last edited by chloehandbags; 22-06-2010 at 12:38 PM.
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23-06-2010
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Let's take Christopher Kane. His t-shirts and t-shirt-dresses are being made in china. The thing that botheres me is that he still requires a HELL lot of money for them. They're made out of cotton. h&m sells these kind of t-shirts for 10€. I got one of them as a present. They are really not that great.

I also hate when italian labels psotion themselves as the most traditional house ever and produce their stuff somewhere in middle-asia.

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24-06-2010
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It's funny from reading this thread that it seems Cavalli has some of the best production practices and yet so much of what he makes comes across as (and looks) cheap. There is no reason to assume immediately that Chinese factories produce inferior goods. They don't. Anything made in a production line in a factory probably will not be as high of quality as that produced by an artisan doing something they have done for 20 years by hand. But I would imagine that in terms of quality of production, factories in Vietnam, China, India, America, etc. produce roughly comparable goods. They have to - the industry is competitive. If someone can produce the good you want at the quality you want at a lower price just down the road - it's easy to shift production. I think the difference comes in terms of what employees are paid, how well they are treated, etc.

As for the terrorism thing, I too often think the links are tenuous. However, I did see an article recently in either the Guardian or Globe & Mail (both highly respected newspapers) about how knock-offs of Christian Louboutin shoes were directly related to terrorism. Basically, those in terrorist groups went into knock-offs because of the high profit margins and they would kidnap and force children to work to produce them - and the quality was very high (they even replicated the CL boxes). In fact, Louboutin and his team are actively working to shut these operations down (of course for their own profit reasons as well).

I just bought an Alexander Wang 'rocco' bag and all his bags are produced in China. The price is less than other designer bags and I feel more comfortable that they are being upfront about it. As others have noted, the "made in..." label is much more complex than it used to be. Being produced in Italy or France is not a guarantee of quality. Quite frankly, if my TV can be made and produced in China and I willing to spend over a grand on that, what makes me think that they also can't produce bags and clothing to high standards?

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25-06-2010
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i heard from a source inside fashion industry about how designers like wang can sell their leather bags cheaper than most designer. beside the obvious mark up it is, but wang and some other designer like phillip lim are using the best leather quality and the best hardware like other designers. but the leathers they are using are more "raw", that's why the leather smell is stronger (which is an advantage imo, i love leather smell). those leathers are cheaper and that's why they can sell em cheaper too beside the obvious that producing in china is a lot more cheaper

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25-06-2010
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the terrorism argument is

I believe if they would want to, the 3rd world production facilities could achieve the quality of the ones of western counties (and “normal” products of designer brands, not Kiton suits or Loro Piana fabrics). It's not that they lack the proper machines or trained workers, the companies simply want to tweak their profit margin even more…

What bothers me if I buy stuff from there, they have = 0 environment protection and even if no child labour is involved, 60h of work a week without proper breaks, food or health care system.

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06-07-2010
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well there are maybe stigma with "made in china", but truely, who would spend money to make clothes travel all over the world if it's not interesting ?? clearly, china's living and working conditions are still uneblievalbe, and it's still really interesting for big brand to produce their clothes there. Even if maybe they pay more attention to get quality clothes, it's still unbearable for me to wanna be called a luxury brand, and not choose to produce very expensive clothes in the original country. BCBG, Rykiel and Hugo Boss are mostly made in China. I'd like to say : what a shame !!

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