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09-11-2017
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Originally Posted by arvage View Post
I see the point of everyone not caring. That argument is valid but for people in the know of the male modelling industry, these campaigns and runway jobs happen for a reason and if you pay attention you'll know which models are being booked again and again, which agency hosts the best model to book from etc. For your last question, I think the idea of success for a male model has changed. You don't need to be in a music video with Taylor Swift to know that you've made it. I think male models are happy enough when they get a campaign, or e-commerce and editorials where they get to fly to exotic places. For males, they're happy with whatever job they get. They don't aspire to be on the cover of so and so magazine or brand. They're very lax in every sense of the word. If they turn out to be the next Clement, it's their luck. They know that the industry is shaky and there aren't as many job opportunities as women's. Their idea of success is much lower than what the general public sets it if not entirely different. Or at least that's my take on it.
That is an EXCELLENT point, in fact, here in Spain where I work as a photographer with many New Faces and agency male models its true that 90% of them all (at least in Spain) dont have the same business savvy or the same DESIRE to be doing 100 covers or booking top notch campaigns, they are just happy booking anything and travelling. They arent seeing the big picture or looking ahead to be `supers either because they know its only one of them in a generation will become the next Clment Chabernaud or Sean OPry. Itsad, I try to teach them to want bigger things for their modeling careers but they are most worried about where to hang out on Saturday night...

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09-11-2017
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^^^ Thats a common scenario with the guys all around the world, Bertrando. Guys know that theyre 3rd-class citizens next to the girls in the industry that's so slanted against them. They know to just work and get paid is more than enough to expect. The days of male Supermodels is long gone not that even then guys were anywhere near the girls in terms of celebrity status and earnings. There's never been any equality for the guys in this industry LOL

And there are more beautiful guys with model potential than there are beautiful girls with model potential, so the competition is ferocious. With a guy whos got the right bone structure and height, its so much easier to tell them to loose some weight, train or build muscle-mass. With a girl, she may have the face, but if shes not tall with long legs and a size 2, shes never going to even be a consideration: No amount of diet and training is going to extend her legs and narrow her hips

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I think it's important to note that another major reason for why male modeling is dead is because mens fashion is, well, so bland and one dimensional.

Yeah, big brands bust out new collections each season but there's only so many times you can redesign a suit, tuxedo, sports jacket, or a mens sweater.

Mens fashion is NOWHERE near the same level as womens so there's no need for men to be major in the industry.

There's no excitement behind a new LV or Dior Homme collection anymore. Even big name mens shows like Versace and D&G have toned it down so much so that now they mean nothing. Well, D&G is in a separate category for its disasters over the past decade including hiring male Instamodels and socialites but let's not go there.

The only show these days that puts SOME emphasis on the male models where casting would be a BIG deal is Balmain...and that's saying something.

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Originally Posted by Phuel View Post
^^^ That’s a common scenario with the guys all around the world, Bertrando. Guys know that they’re 3rd-class citizens next to the girls in the industry that's so slanted against them. They know to just work and get paid is more than enough to expect. The days of male Supermodels is long gone— not that even then guys were anywhere near the girls in terms of celebrity status and earnings. There's never been any equality for the guys in this industry LOL

And there are more beautiful guys with model potential than there are beautiful girls with model potential, so the competition is ferocious. With a guy who’s got the right bone structure and height, it’s so much easier to tell them to loose some weight, train or build muscle-mass. With a girl, she may have the face, but if she’s not tall with long legs and a size 2, she’s never going to even be a consideration: No amount of diet and training is going to extend her legs and narrow her hips…
Indeed but I wish the modeling industry was more inclusive indeed so the girls dont all have to be a size 2 or 0 in fact and 5,10 to be considered a high fashion working model.

As for the male models expectations I tend to disagree a little bit: so many Asian designers and brands in Latin America are much more experimental and edgy and they push the limits and what we, as men, could and should be able to wear. Therefore the need for great male models is there; Im not saying to have skirts for men and nails and wacky kind of outfits just for the sake of expanding the mens different kinds of accessories and styles but its great that some designers on the planet think about us and try to expand the mens wardrobe.

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Originally Posted by billiejbob View Post
I think it's important to note that another major reason for why male modeling is dead is because mens fashion is, well, so bland and one dimensional.

Yeah, big brands bust out new collections each season but there's only so many times you can redesign a suit, tuxedo, sports jacket, or a mens sweater.

Mens fashion is NOWHERE near the same level as womens so there's no need for men to be major in the industry.

There's no excitement behind a new LV or Dior Homme collection anymore. Even big name mens shows like Versace and D&G have toned it down so much so that now they mean nothing. Well, D&G is in a separate category for its disasters over the past decade including hiring male Instamodels and socialites but let's not go there.

The only show these days that puts SOME emphasis on the male models where casting would be a BIG deal is Balmain...and that's saying something.
The models I work with, those I modelled with back in the day, those who the agencies send me to work with for my magazine, they dont have a master plan. NONE of them say : I will be a supermodel, I will be like Tyson Beckford or Mark Vanderloo or Marcus S. They just want to travel, have a few pics for their instagram (a.k.a the new male model evolution lol: the instaboys/instagramers etc.) but they dont focus on modeling as a CAREER. Most top female models work their *** off (when they reach the big doors or Fashion and do the major runway shows and shoot for Vogue and Harpers) do work because they want fame, they want to book international covers of Vogue, they want to be invited to talk shows, to be seen with celebrities, become actresses, book a lot of Ad campaigns, getting cosmetic contracts. So they have REAL big goals and with top agency bookers and a solid book and friendships with top designers, then they get it = Victorias secret girls, top Vogue editorial models and beyond.

My question then is WHY dont male models think the same way? My only answer is (because of what I previously said about my own experience with models in Spain) that they dont take it too seriously so its more like a hobbie and a fun thing to do but very very very few have the mindset of lets say David Gandy or Andrs Velencoso or Noah Mills. Normal young model guys and the working male models doing international runways and ad campaigns dont see (I think) the big picture at the end of the tunnel, MODELING for them is a means to an end but not a career builder.

What do you guys think? Or is it also the publics lack of interest in male models too?

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^^^ Guys cant afford to think in the same ambitious way as the girls can. Its not a worthy investment for them since in the end, it's just more a matter of luck that so-and-so became successful. There are so many guys I've seen that's way better looking with a better body than David Dandy...

Oftentimes, we are so preoccupied with HF and its cast, we completely forget that its the consumer brands, like VS, Maybelline, Revlon etc that pays for the cost of living for models. And these brands do not need any of the guys. Factor in that HF even high street like TOPMAN and All Saints etc, are going with the very young, indie-looking types that 10 years ago, would never be considered model-material. So add in a new breed of weird-looking twink male models, new faces all the time rather than investing in strong, familiar faces-- and the competition for the few paying jobs are ferocious. Supply exceeds demand...

Have you ever been to a casting call for some mid-range department-store??? Its like a cattle-call Its a dogs life for the guys. I see so many gorgeous guys amazing faces and unbelievable bodies (not to mention easygoing, down-to-earth, hardworking and open-minded), coming from competent agencies, with passionate agents and bookers, and for whatever reason (and no luck?), these guys just slip through the cracks. So many of them. Im sure you know what I mean...

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Originally Posted by Phuel View Post
^^^ Guys cant afford to think in the same ambitious way as the girls can. Its not a worthy investment for them since in the end, it's just more a matter of luck that so-and-so became successful. There are so many guys I've seen that's way better looking with a better body than David Dandy...

Oftentimes, we are so preoccupied with HF and its cast, we completely forget that its the consumer brands, like VS, Maybelline, Revlon etc that pays for the cost of living for models. And these brands do not need any of the guys. Factor in that HF even high street like TOPMAN and All Saints etc, are going with the very young, indie-looking types that 10 years ago, would never be considered model-material. So add in a new breed of weird-looking twink male models, new faces all the time rather than investing in strong, familiar faces-- and the competition for the few paying jobs are ferocious. Supply exceeds demand...

Have you ever been to a casting call for some mid-range department-store??? Its like a cattle-call Its a dogs life for the guys. I see so many gorgeous guys amazing faces and unbelievable bodies (not to mention easygoing, down-to-earth, hardworking and open-minded), coming from competent agencies, with passionate agents and bookers, and for whatever reason (and no luck?), these guys just slip through the cracks. So many of them. Im sure you know what I mean...
I absolutely know what you mean, gosh its sad its true that nowadays: instaboys + weird looking twinks + constant new faces = it makes it almost impossible for the top working handsome male models of today to make a descent living out of Fashion.

I also agree with you that commercial modeling is what makes the money worth it coz Fashion pays next to nothing for the guys, I know I have been through it ahaha.

I still wish designers would support much better the male models of our generation. Take any of the 31 models featured on the DETAILS cover they did and Im sure so many fans and people would like to feel invested in them as much as they do with female models but the industry needs to support the guys first.

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^^^ And look what happened to Details Magazine LOL

Have you seen the last issue of LUOMO? Its so abandoned its depressing: More generic-looking kidz and chavy-looking twinks for their very last fashion stories...

There are some indie publications ADON, Victor, Yearbook that make an effort to promote that brand of male beauty you and I grew up with. Predictably and unfortunately, their quality has slipped so fast and the shoots simply arent strong enough anymore (likely due to less submissions since people are likely more attracted to posting their work on SM for instant visibility) to get the attention of potential blue chip investors, or any investors to be frank. There simply is little to no driven momentum of infrastructure to promote the guys in any capacity thats near what is set for the girls. The only major international publication presence to promote male models is Fashion For Men and theyre so niche no one outside of HF fans knows about them.

HF isnt a charity/humanitarian cause LOL Its just not worth it for the designers to be supporting men in the same way that they support (and profit) from the women.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phuel View Post
^^^ Guys cant afford to think in the same ambitious way as the girls can. Its not a worthy investment for them since in the end, it's just more a matter of luck that so-and-so became successful. There are so many guys I've seen that's way better looking with a better body than David Dandy...

Oftentimes, we are so preoccupied with HF and its cast, we completely forget that its the consumer brands, like VS, Maybelline, Revlon etc that pays for the cost of living for models. And these brands do not need any of the guys. Factor in that HF even high street like TOPMAN and All Saints etc, are going with the very young, indie-looking types that 10 years ago, would never be considered model-material. So add in a new breed of weird-looking twink male models, new faces all the time rather than investing in strong, familiar faces-- and the competition for the few paying jobs are ferocious. Supply exceeds demand...

Have you ever been to a casting call for some mid-range department-store??? Its like a cattle-call Its a dogs life for the guys. I see so many gorgeous guys amazing faces and unbelievable bodies (not to mention easygoing, down-to-earth, hardworking and open-minded), coming from competent agencies, with passionate agents and bookers, and for whatever reason (and no luck?), these guys just slip through the cracks. So many of them. Im sure you know what I mean...
It's easy to assume that TOPMAN pays a lot but in actuality not at all. I know a few models who campaigned this year and they didn't get "a lot" because TOPMAN hires a slew of models at a time. Also, TOPMAN isn't doing LFW anymore except small presentations. They are however still active at Bread and Butter and doing their runway shows there.

IMO, instaboys don't exist as per what I've posted earlier - at least during fashion week/fashion magazines they're non existent. As for weird looking twinks, I guess that's what's in fashion for male models right now. Personally I think the muscular body market is really saturated and almost every guy wants to achieve such a body so the fashion world is saying "no that's mainstream I want to be away from that" and so casting these weird looking boys became the norm (which I kinda like as it pushed the boundaries of male beauty). Even VERSACE is switching to skinnier boys for runway which to me is weird for the brand but I'm not Donatella and my faves are walking the shows so I'm not complaining.

As far as the big shows go (I'm taking Bottega Veneta Men&Women SS18) , we still have Arthur Gosse, Neels Visser then you go a little newer you see Elias de Poot, Erik van Gils then you go even newer you see Alpha Dia, Oscar Kindelan then you go even newer you will see Arun Gupta, Sakua Kambong, Luc Defont.

The male model trend is changing, it's no longer a sculpted face with distinguishable cheek bones and super intensive eyes accompanied with muscular bodies. That type of look is the norm and fashion is shying itself away from it. With brands like VETEMENTS, Balenciaga, GUCCI perpetuating the weird skinny look even more, you'll find less and less male models that have the features you find attractive. It is just how the fashion world works.

Current male models don't do this to be THE top model. A lot of them are studying on the side, have nothing else to do, want to explore the world, doing it 'cause the money is good (lol), is endorsed by fashion giants. (Kim Jones has his set of boys that he gives gifts to and helps them get high profile shows early in their careers)

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