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07-06-2005
  121
rising star
 
Venusia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Montreal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twilekboy
but ultimately, if nothing is actively done, over-consumption will kill itself on its own, albeit much to our own detriment...

[oil] is afterall the sole reason we are able to pursue globalisation, industrial architecture, and the "Western" quality of life...

as we continue to increase our usage of oil, the sooner production will peak and our ability to exponentially consume will end...
I'm not at all trying to sound argumentative, twilekboy, but your statements are completely unsupported by facts, unless you want to provide some sources?

We aren't consuming ourselves into the ground, oil is not the prime motive for everything, we still have reserves for centuries, and we are constantly developing ways of using renewable resources and alternative forms of energy.

Remember coal? We never ran out of it, we just stopped mining it because we found better sources of energy. Long before oil runs out, we will find and use better and cleaner sources of energy.

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07-06-2005
  122
trendsetter
 
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Long ago as a teenager, I started dressing to reflect my inner self. I did not have that many friends, and the friends I had, didn't dress *just* like me. I really felt we were individuals, expressing ourselves, but relating to each other none the less. It is the same now. I have friends all over who have different tastes in style than me, but I still relate to them. I don't want such and such item, just because they have it. It is impossible to take consumerism out of regular conversation because everything is bought and sold, music, books, clothes, cars, houses, etc. Geeze, even religion these days has a price.

Clothes to me do reflect a persons tastes, but not their inner being. (if they are a good, kind person, understanding, open minded, etc) I feel like clothes are an art form. If you want to take my clothes away from me, then you take away the beauty I want to have in my world. I judge that beauty only by my own standards, not someone elses. I am choosing not to follow "society" and "media". I am not buying a Balenciaga or Chloe bag to fill a void. They do not fit my taste, so I do not need them. I do not want a Mercedes, BMW or Ferrari because everyone in Beverly Hills has one(or three!). They are not my idea of beauty. I do want a nice new clean car though. It could be a VW, or an Audi. The $$$ amount is not the selling point, it is the beauty, quality and reliability.

Luxury goods can sell you quality and reliabliity. I will have my Chanel bags for my life time. I have no doubt they will hold up. Yes, Chanel may be selling me into an idea of luxury. Everyone is trying to sell us into this now to make us feel better about ourselves. If you have "X" brand, you are "rich", and being "rich" is a validation to people with low self esteems self worth.

Now, I have no doubt alot of us here are very secure in themselves. At any income level, you love yourself and buy with in your means. I can not sit here and tell a doctor or lawyer that they are greedy for buying an expensive house with in their means because other people in the world are starving. I think it is great to experience the beauty and leisure riches can offer. I really can not talk bad even about people who buy a new dress for every day of the year. It is great to absorb all the world has to offer. I think you just have to come to a point in your life where material things are not all that matter, people matter too! You will have kids and a husband, and be willing to sacrafice everything for them. You will relate to people you never thought you would, despite what they have.

Yes, at times I feel sad becuase I can not have ANOTHER purse. I think other interests and hobbies keep your life at a slower pace. (reading, watching movies, TV, computers, games, dinner parties) You just take one day at a time and have to always reflect and be appreciative you have what you do have!! Do it, because someday, you, or your husband might loose their jobs. Your property value could go down, you could loose in your investments. It's not worth the stress and sadness to attach yourselves to material things which come and go!

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07-06-2005
  123
Unveil Yourself....
 
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Join Date: Jun 2004
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Realy good post rhianonmars


Quote:
The $$$ amount is not the selling point, it is the beauty, quality and reliability.
I agree to this, but the point is, many people do not...they see the dollars, the brand and then the beauty, quality etc. Which is a pitty.... To me right now beauty and purity are two thing I hold very high. I don't know why, but I constantly feel like I am searching for more beauty and purity in my life. In the widest sense of the words. I 'satisfy' myself with looking at the clouds, going to a forest, having good conversations or jsut a lot of fun with my friends or viewing at some good art or a (good) Dior/Galliano showvideo. That last one might sound very stupid to some (or a lot) but it's something that just makes me feel very comfortable and as if I am experiencing beauty as it should be...that's why I love him. This whole seek and find of those two aspects are perhaps two things that more people should do as opposed to seeking and finding an image or popularity or just following the herd. It's exactly as you point it out. Dollar ammount is not the selling point, it is beauty, quality and reliability.

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07-06-2005
  124
backstage pass
 
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peak oil production
Quote:
Originally Posted by Venusia
I'm not at all trying to sound argumentative, twilekboy, but your statements are completely unsupported by facts, unless you want to provide some sources?
http://www.energybulletin.net/primer.php

here are some facts about peak oil production, from the above website:

What is Peak Oil?
Peak Oil is the simplest label for the problem of energy resource depletion, or more specifically, the peak in global oil production. Oil is a finite, non-renewable resource, one that has powered phenomenal economic and population growth over the last century and a half. The rate of oil 'production,' meaning extraction & refining (currently about 83 million barrels/day), has grown in most years over the last century, but once we go through the halfway point of all reserves, production becomes ever more likely to decline, hence 'peak'. Peak Oil means not 'running out of oil', but 'running out of cheap oil'. For societies leveraged on ever increasing amounts of cheap oil, the consequences may be dire. Without significant successful cultural reform, economic and social decline seems inevitable.

Why does oil peak? Why doesn't it suddenly run out?
For obvious reasons, people have extracted the easy-to-reach, cheap oil first. The oil pumped first was on land, near the surface, under pressure and light and 'sweet' and easy to refine into gasoline. The remaining oil, sometimes off shore, far from markets, in smaller fields, or of lesser quality, will take ever more money and energy to extract and refine. The rate of extraction will drop. Furthermore, all oil fields eventually reach a point where they become economically, and energetically no longer viable. If it takes the energy of a barrel of oil to extract a barrel of oil, then further extraction is pointless.

other links:

The Community Solution to Peak Oil. "The Community Solution is a program of Community Service, Inc. Community Service is dedicated to the development, growth and enhancement of small local communities. We envision a country where the population is distributed in small communities that are sustainable, diverse and culturally sophisticated."
www.communitysolution.org

Permaculture: David Holmgren, one of the co-originators of the permaculture concept has written a book called Permaculture: Principles and Pathways Beyond Sustainability which deals explicitly with the peak oil problem. Permaculture principles work towards re-designing cultural and agricultural practices for an energy descent world. By doing a course locally or with a bit of study, you can start applying permaculture principles on a suburban or rural plot.
www.permaculture.org.au
www.holmgren.com.au

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07-06-2005
  125
trendsetter
 
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Quote:
I agree to this, but the point is, many people do not.
The world is a mass unite. You get out of cities sometimes, and everyone looks the same, talks the same, eats the same. Fast food chains and places like THE GAP would not be around if masses of people didn't conform to something very basic. I can not say everyone who shops at The Gap is a follower, but it shows that it just is the easy thing to like things that are mass marketed to us, just like luxury goods are starting to. It's easier to do what magazines tell you. It's easier to wear what Lohan or Paris are wearing because we see 100000 photos of them everywhere. We are bombarded by certain brands, and it can be easy to start thinking you like them.

I meet girls online who buy all these purses, none of them really matching in style, all just the "hot" thing. It doesn't make sence to me that someone can fully realize the styles of what they buy. So you are a boho, baby doll, goth, punk rock, elegant person? I see they want the purse not because it fits with their style, but it fits with everyone elses views of what is style in magazines. Comming from so many points of views, it turns into this ugly conglomeration of clothes that just don't go, but they are so "have to have", they buy them anyways, and sometimes don't even use them! That is where I think consumerism has gone wrong. I'd rather that money go to a starving child, a drug abuse program, etc.

but back to what Mr Dale and I agree on.... clothes are beauty! I look at these designs and feel at harmony with them, regardless if I purchase them all or not. It is great that money is the life blood that can support these artists. Since I am big into vintage things, when I buy something new, I feel as if it is a new piece of history I am buying. I see it in the closet and think "This is my world". In 100 years, people will be looking back to see what pieced together our world. Clothes, cars, books, music, all things that can be bought will be the foundation of what people know about us now.

The other day I looked at the world and thought of money like electricity, pipes of it under the ground, making everything happen. It really is the life blood of our world.

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07-06-2005
  126
etre soi-meme
 
Lena's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhiannonmars



I meet girls online who buy all these purses, none of them really matching in style, all just the "hot" thing. It doesn't make sence to me that someone can fully realize the styles of what they buy. So you are a boho, baby doll, goth, punk rock, elegant person? I see they want the purse not because it fits with their style, but it fits with everyone elses views of what is style in magazines.

That is where I think consumerism has gone wrong. I'd rather that money go to a starving child, a drug abuse program, etc.

The other day I looked at the world and thought of money like electricity, pipes of it under the ground, making everything happen. It really is the life blood of our world.
so lets use this life blood consiously (sp?)

instant karma for rhiannonmars for the views
and to meme527 for .. the evidents


Last edited by Lena; 07-06-2005 at 05:07 PM.
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07-06-2005
  127
tfs star
 
FrockRadar8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Gender: femme
Posts: 1,757
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhiannonmars




The world is a mass unite. You get out of cities sometimes, and everyone looks the same, talks the same, eats the same. Fast food chains and places like THE GAP would not be around if masses of people didn't conform to something very basic. I can not say everyone who shops at The Gap is a follower, but it shows that it just is the easy thing to like things that are mass marketed to us, just like luxury goods are starting to. It's easier to do what magazines tell you. It's easier to wear what Lohan or Paris are wearing because we see 100000 photos of them everywhere. We are bombarded by certain brands, and it can be easy to start thinking you like them.

I meet girls online who buy all these purses, none of them really matching in style, all just the "hot" thing. It doesn't make sence to me that someone can fully realize the styles of what they buy. So you are a boho, baby doll, goth, punk rock, elegant person? I see they want the purse not because it fits with their style, but it fits with everyone elses views of what is style in magazines. Comming from so many points of views, it turns into this ugly conglomeration of clothes that just don't go, but they are so "have to have", they buy them anyways, and sometimes don't even use them! That is where I think consumerism has gone wrong. I'd rather that money go to a starving child, a drug abuse program, etc.

but back to what Mr Dale and I agree on.... clothes are beauty! I look at these designs and feel at harmony with them, regardless if I purchase them all or not. It is great that money is the life blood that can support these artists. Since I am big into vintage things, when I buy something new, I feel as if it is a new piece of history I am buying. I see it in the closet and think "This is my world". In 100 years, people will be looking back to see what pieced together our world. Clothes, cars, books, music, all things that can be bought will be the foundation of what people know about us now.

The other day I looked at the world and thought of money like electricity, pipes of it under the ground, making everything happen. It really is the life blood of our world.

Well said! It's sad..clothes are becoming more of a communication of status minus the appreciation for the work, aesthetic or creativity involved. It's sickening to see young girls clamoring for the "IT" chanel bag or Louis Vuitton tote with no thought other than "that's what so and so has". What is more important is what is it in my INDIVIDUAL style that I like and am proud of?

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07-06-2005
  128
V.I.P.
 
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Karma for Rhiannonmars, and karma is on it's way for Mr. Dale (once I'm allowed to give karma again).

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07-06-2005
  129
V.I.P.
 
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: New York City
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Quote:
what's the answer?...
how to bring about social change....
that's a book i want to read...
i have been reading a lot of noam chomsky lately , you'll probably be very interested in reading this , also, despite your views on ralph nader, that man has definately created positive change.

http://www.chomsky.info/articles.htm

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07-06-2005
  130
etre soi-meme
 
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more karma this time for FrockRadar8's exellent comment and a warm welcome to tFS

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07-06-2005
  131
Frozen irony.
 
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Karma to rhianonmars, that was so refreshing to read, really nice thoughts i do agree with all of it, in the end your loved ones is all that matters!

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07-06-2005
  132
etre soi-meme
 
Lena's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travolta
man has definately created positive change.
i very much doubt this myself
btw, chomsky is uber cool

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07-06-2005
  133
tfs star
 
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Thanks Lena! I never knew this thread existed! It's really great to see these views...Most people assume that if you critique materialism in the fashion world, you must not have any style. The word style has become rather perverted and used in such a way to popularize (if that's a word it. You CAN like fashion and still have appreciate style, even if you are critical of how it flows around.

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07-06-2005
  134
etre soi-meme
 
Lena's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
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exactly.. style has nothing to do with how much one spends on things, or what label is stuck on the back of what they wear.. style its a completly different issue

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07-06-2005
  135
tfs star
 
FrockRadar8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Posts: 1,757
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lena
identity should be something more than a label on a bag/blouse/perfume etc.. its been called conspicious (sp?) consumption.. eg. climbing the 'social' ladder

strange thing is that people are so ready to slave in order to aquire a plasic identity ..so many girls saving/in debt in order to get the 'it' item which (they believe) will improve their social 'image' or make them acceptable in a circle they really dont belong in

regardless how well i understand the motives for exessive consumption, the victimization of the consumer and the social 'preassure'/monitoring we are all exposed to, it does makes me sad to see people live-to-consume

No kidding!! I once knew a girl who insisted on having a marc jacobs dress for prom, and continuing her search for the "perfect manolo" despite her dad being laid off from a "middle class" type job. All for the sake of impressing her fellow HIGH SCHOOL peers...

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