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22-07-2010
  1516
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^ Just to clarify. I don't think Vogue Africa would be offensive, lol, just trying to understand WHY people would think so.

 
 
23-07-2010
  1517
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draped_Ape View Post
I think the models are an extension of the image that designers are trying project. While it may not be an issue of racism, it says something about what they want associated with their style/brand.


I agree...i love prada and miu miu her sister brand. And as a black women who loves her clothing.i often feel a little foolish purchasing her peices.

 
23-07-2010
  1518
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Prada has the worst reputation for lack of diversity, but what about Chanel? They seem to cast the least black women out of all the big houses

 
23-07-2010
  1519
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I would love it if they had a Vogue South Africa or Vogue Kenya... even a Vogue Africa.
( I guess I too, am also clueless as to why a Vogue Africa would be offensive)

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Last edited by labellevie; 24-07-2010 at 12:03 AM.
 
24-07-2010
  1520
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yendor View Post
Prada has the worst reputation for lack of diversity, but what about Chanel? They seem to cast the least black women out of all the big houses
Yes i was thinking the same thing the other day. Chanel is really bad in the "racial diversity" topic, at least Prada has been using 1 or two black girls in the past seasons, not that it really makes the cast "diverse" but u know,

 
24-07-2010
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Actually, the weird thing about the casting at Chanel is that there are always some Asian women cast but never dark-skinned women. What's up with that?

 
24-07-2010
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There are so many Japanese at the Chanel show and isn't Japan the biggest market for Chanel?
How many African or even African American/European people are in the audiences at Chanel shows? I mean, if you did a survey of that audience how many do you think would have a complaint about the model casting?

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Last edited by sethii; 24-07-2010 at 02:40 AM.
 
24-07-2010
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Of course it would be great to see black models represented on the Chanel runway, but Chanel does not stick out to me as lacking diversity because of its Asian casting. Although I do think that it will be neat if Karl adds a biracial butterfly to his favored models roster like he had back in the day with Brandi Quinones and Kimora Lee Simmons.

I haven't studied it closely but the Armani casts seem to be pretty monochromatic.

ETA:
Also it should be noted that Jean Paul Gaultier has diverse casts for his shows and it would be great to see that acknowledged by celebrities of color on the red carpet.


Last edited by agee; 24-07-2010 at 09:16 AM.
 
24-07-2010
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since some of you think that because they spend $ on certain brand, and think they should be represented in certain campains or catwalks ....
what about arabs ?
i know that a lot of arab girls carry some Hermès, Chanel etc.
and a man i closely know only dress in YSL
i know that @ my friend job, there's a girl who has a different bag (from Fendi to Hermès to Chanel) every day of the year (and according to him, she has at least 20 different Birkin).
some arab countries really spend a lot of $ on Fashion ...

do we see them a lot in the cast of campains ? editorials ? catwalks ?
do we hear their voice complaining ?

* and what would really be the difference btw a white or a black model in a campain or on a catwalk ? are they different ? do they dress different ? i mean the ones i've seen around here (the ones who spend, according to some onto here - since it seems it's only what matters to be embody in a campain) have nothing different from the "white" people .... i've even seen some with a black maid and a black driver .......... so they behave like "white", dress like "white" ....

i'm sooooooooo confused about this !

blacks, asians, arabs, latinos, europeans, green people, hairy people, fat people and so on shouldn't be in campains, editorials or catwalks because they are a part of the market, but because they are representing the diversity of a global society .....

and what about the niche magazines (black, latinos, size + etc.) ?
what about the brazilian fashion week - does it really represent the diversity of this country ? i'm not sure ...

 
24-07-2010
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ETA to my previous comment:
Tisci's Givenchy is another designer that tends to send a diverse cast of models down the catwalk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BerlinRocks View Post
since some of you think that because they spend $ on certain brand, and think they should be represented in certain campains or catwalks ....
what about arabs ?
i know that a lot of arab girls carry some Hermès, Chanel etc.
and a man i closely know only dress in YSL
i know that @ my friend job, there's a girl who has a different bag (from Fendi to Hermès to Chanel) every day of the year (and according to him, she has at least 20 different Birkin).
some arab countries really spend a lot of $ on Fashion ...

do we see them a lot in the cast of campains ? editorials ? catwalks ?
do we hear their voice complaining ?

* and what would really be the difference btw a white or a black model in a campain or on a catwalk ? are they different ? do they dress different ? i mean the ones i've seen around here (the ones who spend, according to some onto here - since it seems it's only what matters to be embody in a campain) have nothing different from the "white" people .... i've even seen some with a black maid and a black driver .......... so they behave like "white", dress like "white" ....

i'm sooooooooo confused about this !

blacks, asians, arabs, latinos, europeans, green people, hairy people, fat people and so on shouldn't be in campains, editorials or catwalks because they are a part of the market, but because they are representing the diversity of a global society .....

and what about the niche magazines (black, latinos, size + etc.) ?
what about the brazilian fashion week - does it really represent the diversity of this country ? i'm not sure ...
Obviously this is all a matter of opinion, but I do think that designers should try to cast models who look like the people who buy their stuff and depending where they are based out of, somewhat reflect the community in which they operate, so yeah if blacks, Asians, Latinas, Arabs and cross-dressers make up a significant portion of a design house's buyers that should be reflected on the runways, the only caveat being is that there needs to be a decent representation in the pool of models suitable and available to be cast, which may knock out models of Middle Eastern descent for cultural reasons and cross-dressers in the short-term, although as soon as they hear that there is a demand for their type, cross-dressers will be showing up in droves at the open casting calls for IMG, Women and Next. :p I will note that in the case of models of Arabic / Middle Eastern descent, the pool may be small but it is not non-existent and I would particularly like to see Arabic models walking for a designer like Elie Saab (not that I am saying they aren't), since my understanding is that women from that region are a significant part of his customer base.

Now I don't think that someone should be off to the side with a calculator in hand saying, "well 7.9% of your customers are X and 12.4% of your customers are Y and your model cast should match these numbers." I am trying to have a balanced view about this and that is why I commented previously about while (sadly) having a model of color doing a OG magazine cover or campaign is highly unlikely, I think that since designers have more flexibility when it comes to model casting - they have roughly 25-40 spots to fill, they should select models that are more representative of their buyers and communities.


Last edited by agee; 24-07-2010 at 12:10 PM.
 
24-07-2010
  1526
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AstroTalker View Post

To have true diversity, race needs to be entirely irrelevant.
I agree, to an extent.

To achieve this would require getting to a post-racial fashion world... and to get to a post-racial fashion world, I do think it will take some force. At this point, I would be pleased to see Chanel Iman, who I find to be average looking at best, fronting a major high fashion campaign, even if it means sacrificing a white model that may have done an equal job. Why? Because if she were to land, say, Dolce and Gabbana, it would prove that a black girl can sell Dolce and Gabbana, and she can sell it just as well as any nameless, faceless blonde. It's sure to be an unpopular opinion, but honestly, yes, I do think there needs to be affirmative action in fashion in order to open the flood gates.

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24-07-2010
  1527
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I've noticed that most of the most successful black models have distinct european features. I'm talking about the ones who get editorials, beauty contracts, & campaigns. Its an odd phenomenon. Maybe designers and editors think a girl like Liya Kebede would be less threatening to their customers than say, Georgie Badiel.

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24-07-2010
  1528
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^ A fashion insider (I don't remember who, I'm afraid) was once quoted as saying he was looking for black models that looked like "white girls dipped in chocolate." I thought that was awful.

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24-07-2010
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Vogue Africa wouldn't work for several reasons. First of all Africa is a continent. There would be issues in which language to print, how to ship the issue to every single country during the same month (which in a continent like Africa wouldn't be easy). Secondly there would not be a big market for the magazine. Most of Africa is still incredibly poor and I doubt the average person would have the means to invest in a publication like this. Then there's the question of where labels like Prada, Cavalli and Louis Vuitton are sold...where could readers realistically access these clothes? I suppose they could support local designers, but that's not enough to cover a monthly issue.

 
24-07-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BerlinRocks View Post
since some of you think that because they spend $ on certain brand, and think they should be represented in certain campains or catwalks ....
what about arabs ?
i know that a lot of arab girls carry some Hermès, Chanel etc.
and a man i closely know only dress in YSL
i know that @ my friend job, there's a girl who has a different bag (from Fendi to Hermès to Chanel) every day of the year (and according to him, she has at least 20 different Birkin).
some arab countries really spend a lot of $ on Fashion ...

do we see them a lot in the cast of campains ? editorials ? catwalks ?
do we hear their voice complaining ?

blacks, asians, arabs, latinos, europeans, green people, hairy people, fat people and so on shouldn't be in campains, editorials or catwalks because they are a part of the market, but because they are representing the diversity of a global society .....

and what about the niche magazines (black, latinos, size + etc.) ?
what about the brazilian fashion week - does it really represent the diversity of this country ? i'm not sure ...
Integrating Arabs into the modeling world just seems like such a monumental task, they may invest a lot of money on design but I don't think it would be acceptable for an average or even a wealthy family to have one of their members shooting with Terry Richardson or walking in see-through Calvin Klein dresses in front of a crowd. I think the demand of luxury goods over there has more to do with their centuries-long attraction for finery and perhaps more about a statement of wealth and specifically possession-oriented rather than vanity, which doesn't mean they don't value it of course.. I don't know much about Middle Eastern culture anyway, I just think their traditions are a big barrier for the modeling industry, which is even 'too liberal' for Western standards.
In a future, if the Middle East becomes more accessible for the West, it will probably have all the chances to be some kind of new post-Communist Russia, highly profitable for agencies not just for the virgin territory appeal but also their ethnic diversity, which can be very European-friendly so to speak.. like in Northern Afghanistan for instance.

It's such a different market, in some way similar to the Latin American market, these cultures are so socially divided that their consumers seem to operate the way Europeans did back in the 50s.. targeting them through models (eds, ads, advertorials) doesn't seem to be the most effective strategy as it is in North America, Asia or Europe right now, even if they consume the same, it is often driven by tradition, they go to LV or Givenchy because that's what their grandmothers did and they ask houses to create them caftans (M. East), 'quinceañeras' dresses (L. America) for them and they do it right away even if it has nothing to do with their seasonal mood.. they spend on luxury instead of trends, sometimes both, which is probably one of the reasons why a change of model casting just to racially 'appeal' to them isn't really necessary.


Moving on from cultures and back to racial diversity in modeling, I completely differ with the idea that fashion should cast models based on what their customers look like.. races aside, keep in mind that most of the non-showbiz people that buy the most are actually quite.. unfortunate-looking!. Fashion is an industry that thrives on beauty, often unattainable beauty but not in the destructive direction it's going now.. Yves Saint Laurent played on that field successfully throughout his career, it's such a shame that what he pushed for so long has almost gone down the drain at this point, he celebrated beautiful faces regardless of their ethnicity and their customers clearly wanted to be a part of that group of beautiful, intellectual and confident women modern enough to understand the power of their gender goes beyond races and the purpose of beautiful clothes is to.. empower! and 'beautify' instead of restrict or be something you have to punish yourself for. The fact that some new designers suggest people 'will not relate' to other races is not just a ridiculous excuse, but it shows how detached their relationship from their customers is and how it's always safer to go backwards instead of having the guts to move forward and continue the few legacies of actual value left in the fashion industry.

About your last question, Berlin, the niche magazines are the only rescue a minority can find when it's been segregated for too long and when their values, traditions and lifestyles are nowhere to be reflected in the publications of the country they also live in and contribute for. It would be nice if race-focused magazines didn't have to exist but for now, until the majority makes room and allows otherwise, it just seems like a democratic tactic of letting diversity be seen and heard.

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