Racial Diversity In Modeling

[Les_Sucettes]

Originally Posted by kiefers

While I think we should hire models based on their ability and not skin color (which is why I partly shrugged Naomis claims as stemming from her huge ego) the mere fact that we have comments like this:
.

I agree, why should designers hire models that they think are not so good in their view, just because they are Black, Asian or whatever.
Now they are in an eastern European Mode, in no time they will change the record.

If P.Diddy wants to use just black models I see nothing wrong with it also, his fashion show, he can pick whoever he wants

And Naomi should just shut up, a person that her her name embroidered in her maids uniforms like they were their possessions, is not exactly the person I would want to hear about equality.

[J.M.L]

Originally Posted by Les_Sucettes

I agree, why should designers hire models that they think are not so good in their view, just because they are Black, Asian or whatever.
Now they are in an eastern European Mode, in no time they will change the record.

That said, some of these "white" models suck, so they don't have much ability to model.

[wrngco]

How about short people...short people are born short..and they cannot set foot on a runway ..unless your last name is Kardashian that is

[Luxx]

Originally Posted by Les_Sucettes

I agree, why should designers hire models that they think are not so good in their view, just because they are Black, Asian or whatever.

The point is not the hiring of models who aren't good enough, the point is that they don't hire models of color at all regardless of their qualifications and ability. Its not as though there are a host of girls who just aren't up to snuff that are complaining. Its that there are people who are just as good as the popular caucasian models who never get a chance because of the color of their skin. I think what people want is for designers/casting agents to keep an open mind when it comes to casting - they can still execute the look and feel of their collections while remaining inclusive. I find it a little hard to believe that across the board there just aren't enough good non-white models and that is why the girls aren't getting cast.

Naomi Campbell speaks out because Naomi can speak out. She has the luxury of saying what she wants without fear of retribution since her status within the industry is untouchable. She could never walk a runway again and she'd still be a supermodel. Other people can't speak out on issues like this because they don't have that privilege - if they say something then they're not going to get work.

[happytrail]

^i agree. i'm sure for every alleged "no good" ethnic model casting directors/designers turn down, they're missing several other girls who could possibly appeal to their aesthetic, eager & hungry for the chance to work.

[amore_da_acquist]

Originally Posted by wrngco

How about short people...short people are born short..and they cannot set foot on a runway ..unless your last name is Kardashian that is

This makes no sense. To quote a wise woman, "being short =/= being minority."

[Les_Sucettes]

Originally Posted by J.M.L

That said, some of these "white" models suck, so they don't have much ability to model.

Well the problem is, that your opinion, clearly is not the designers opinion. Who's good who's bad is always going to be up to the individual.

[Les_Sucettes]

Originally Posted by Luxx

The point is not the hiring of models who aren't good enough, the point is that they don't hire models of color at all regardless of their qualifications and ability. Its not as though there are a host of girls who just aren't up to snuff that are complaining. Its that there are people who are just as good as the popular caucasian models who never get a chance because of the color of their skin. I think what people want is for designers/casting agents to keep an open mind when it comes to casting - they can still execute the look and feel of their collections while remaining inclusive. I find it a little hard to believe that across the board there just aren't enough good non-white models and that is why the girls aren't getting cast.

There we go again, being a good or a bad models is subjective.It's impossible to measure the quality of a model. Designers do not think they are good enough , they do not cast them.
There are lack of Mediterranean women in the catwalk also and they are white, i do not think people should be given an unfair advantage to make the catwalk more inclusive.
I'm against quotes in any area of life.

I'll give you an example I would never cast Chanel,Do not like her as model simple as, I would chose all this well known eastern European girls ahead of her in no time, but If i had to chose between Agyness or her I would chose her. She is simply better.

[Luxx]

Originally Posted by Les_Sucettes

There we go again, being a good or a bad models is subjective.It's impossible to measure the quality of a model. Designers do not think they are good enough , they do not cast them.
There are lack of Mediterranean women in the catwalk also and they are white, i do not think people should be given an unfair advantage to make the catwalk more inclusive.

I don't think there is an unfair advantage at all. There are still very few non-white models, its not as though Sasha and Lily are being denied jobs as a result of the inclusion of minority models. No one is setting up quotas - there is no system in place to enforce such things on the industry. Also if the reasoning is that all these girls weren't good enough then why weren't they good enough? What exactly is it that makes them the lesser choice in the eyes of casting / designers?

I just don't believe that if an agency sends out a host a ethnic models (which they usually don't since by now they know that the client either requests all specific look or they know the girls aren't going to get cast anyway) that there aren't one or two girls in that group who are just as good as any other model.

And not to take things political but the issue of race is not one of physicality. Its deeper than that - race is a social and cultural issue, not merely a subset of physical difference.

And yes I think that the lack of Mediterranean models is bad too, I think the lack of models who aren't size 0 is a bad thing, more short models? That would be great too. The look right now is too homogenous and that is bad for everyone - black, white, purple, green.

Sometimes I just don't get it, almost every other industry on the planet understands that diversity is a positive thing to be strived for and fashion is still stuck in the stone ages. There is almost a purposeful naivete surrounding this in an attempt to hold on to the status quo. As far as I'm concerned if 9 out of 10 casting directors had their way every show would be reedy Eastern European girls with the same exact face and honestly almost every show is. The problem is that right now good means fitting into that look and if you don't it you won't get cast.

Les_Sucettes, you're entitled to your opinion but I just can't agree with you. Its frustrating that the negative aspects of this are being focused on as this isn't something that positively affects only one group. Yes its Naomi Campbell complaining but this is not an issue that is only about black people or even just about minorities. This is something that could potentially be good for the entire industry.

I wouldn't cast Chanel either. Even versus Agyness. I don't think its about coming down to a caucasian model vs. a non-caucasian model and going "Oh well we have to fill our quota with our token black person so throw her in the show." No one wants that. I know I don't want that. I want them to go "Hey this girl is gorgeous! She's something different and she would look great on our runway. Lets put her in the campaign with Sasha!" All I'm asking for is an open mind as to what constitutes beauty or what makes a good model. There are positive things that can come from it.

This season Hermes went in a different direction and cast an Indian model in their campaign. It wasn't an example of filling a quota - it was picking the right girl for the job and the ads turned out amazingly. When Liya opened Balenciaga in 05 it didn't hurt anyone take away from the allure of the house. Tom Ford used to send all sorts of women down the runway for Gucci and it was great. I don't know how else I can stress that this isn't going to be detrimental for there to be a bit more difference within the industry.

[Les_Sucettes]

Originally Posted by Luxx

I don't think there is an unfair advantage at all. There are still very few non-white models, its not as though Sasha and Lily are being denied jobs as a result of the inclusion of minority models. No one is setting up quotas - there is no system in place to enforce such things on the industry. Also if the reasoning is that all these girls weren't good enough then why weren't they good enough? What exactly is it that makes them the lesser choice in the eyes of casting / designers?

I just don't believe that if an agency sends out a host a ethnic models (which they usually don't since by now they know that the client either requests all specific look or they know the girls aren't going to get cast anyway) that there aren't one or two girls in that group who are just as good as any other model.

And yes I think that the lack of Mediterranean models is bad too, I think the lack of models who aren't size 0 is a bad thing, more short models? That would be great too. The look right now is too homogenous and that is bad for everyone - black, white, purple, green.

As far as I'm concerned if 9 out of 10 casting directors had their way every show would be reedy Eastern European girls with the same exact face and honestly almost every show is. The problem is that right now good means fitting into that look and if you don't it you won't get cast.

Les_Sucettes, you're entitled to your opinion but I just can't agree with you. Its frustrating that the negative aspects of this are being focused on as this isn't something that positively affects only one group.

This season Hermes went in a different direction and cast an Indian model in their campaign. It wasn't an example of filling a quota - it was picking the right girl for the job and the ads turned out amazingly. When Liya opened Balenciaga in 05 it didn't hurt anyone take away from the allure of the house. Tom Ford used to send all sorts of women down the runway for Gucci and it was great. I don't know how else I can stress that this isn't going to be detrimental for there to be a bit more difference within the industry.

I cannot agree with you the designer has the right to chose any model he wants,all white if he feels like it, all black, short, skinny. It doesn't bother me at all, after that I will make my decision as consumer. But first It's their choice, they prefer some models they have to exclude others. i stopped buying stuff from some brands because I didn't like their vision, it's their bet first, sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't.
You say that you are against quotes but that exactly what you are proposing, why would I have a catwalk full of women they were not my choice just for the sake for the sake of being politically correct? I do not get it.

I would have to be extremely naive not to agree with you that some brands HAVE to choose white models in their campaigns and the politics behind this choices is something to worry about. But in my opinion everything has to be seen has individual cases, this thing as not enough certain type of models in the catwalk in general for me is totally not the question. I should not be forced has a designer to chose a certain type of women and that includes white.

And i'm sorry I cannot really pay attention to absolutely nothing that someone like Naomi has to say.

[J.M.L]

Maybe the problem is just that some designers actually are racist and prefer white models. This means there needs to be newer designers knocking out the discriminating ones.

[kimair]

Originally Posted by Les_Sucettes

And i'm sorry I cannot really pay attention to absolutely nothing that someone like Naomi has to say.

well that's really sad because she's the reason the discussion is happening...
look past the person talking to what they are talking about...
there needs to be a separation between how you may feel about someone as a person and if they are saying something that is based in fact...
naomi has never been one of my favorite models, but what she speaks of is true...
because she has spoken up, other people, including bethann hardison, diane von furstenberg and others have become involved and a dialogue has started....

i don't think anyone is asking for a quota or some kind of affirmative action rule take place on the runway...
what's being asked for is opportunity....
if a casting director comes to a designer with a stack of model cards, they shouldn't say, "i don't want to see any black girls because i already have one," or "i don't want to see any minorities..."
casting directors should be able to bring designers models that are the best models...
designers are eliminating girls before they even see them, making a determination based on race alone...

[xmodel citizen]

Isn't discrimination in the workplace illegal across the board?

[kimair]

Originally Posted by xmodel citizen

Isn't discrimination in the workplace illegal across the board?

yes it is...

[nyc_art_style]

Originally Posted by wrngco

How about short people...short people are born short..and they cannot set foot on a runway ..unless your last name is Kardashian that is

or if your name is kate moss, or sasha p

its ridiculous that this issue has gotten to the point that the council had to send out a letter to remind people to use all kinds of models.

and this cycle of people who work in fashion making excuses. the designers complain about the casting directors, the casting directors complain about the agencies, and the agencies complain about the designers! someone in this cycle needs to stop complaining and needs to hire girls of all kinds.

i'm happy for the black and asian faces on the runway, now if only we can get some indian girls.