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View Poll Results: Should Emmanuelle Alt leave Vogue Paris?
Yes 132 52.80%
No 118 47.20%
Voters: 250. You may not vote on this poll

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11-07-2013
  76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chanelcouture09 View Post
Alright then... a question for all of the anti-emmanuelle/pro-carine people here... which of you have bought CR Fashion Book? since her issues themselves have garnered huge criticism in themselves.
This is not an anti-Emmanuelle/pro-Carine thread though. I’ve stated previously that Carine became stucked in her latest years as editor-in-chief. The whole magazine lost some freshness… and it needed a change. Although even in those ‘bad’ days everything felt one million times more genuine and passionate than now, and she managed to stay relevant. It’s not even fair for Emmanuelle to compare her to Carine. Roitfeld was the responsible to turn Vogue Paris into the world’s leading fashion magazine, she created a new look and marked a whole era. The only thing Emmanuelle has done is annoying tfsers.

I don’t really like what Carine has been doing in her own fashion magazine. But… is that relevant to this thread?



Quote:
Originally Posted by TianSoFine View Post
I quite like all of the ones you've posted aside from Isabeli's. I never really cared for Carine's VP and I think some of my favourite covers from Carine's era turned out to be done by Emmanuelle. To each their own, I suppose.
The fact is that she’s no longer the fashion director of the magazine but the editor-in-chief. She holds a new position now. We aren’t talking about what she did in the past, but about what she’s doing since she took the reigns from Carine. It would be like saying that Carine made Vogue Paris the most exciting magazine of its time if CR fashion book was criticized; kind of pointless. It’s obvious that the work of Carine as editor-in-chief of French Vogue is quite different from her CR’s work.

Furthermore, I really doubt that the pictures chosen for your favourites covers were selected by Emmanuelle. It’s been proved that she has a terrible eye for choosing the right image for a cover.



On another note, I totally despise the argument of some people who say that “she’s trying to make the magazine more commercial”. It is really absurd and I hate that economic-conscious approach.

First of all, being deliberatively 'commercial' doesn’t necessarily mean the magazine is going to be successful. In fact, Carine wasn’t considered ‘commercial’ (hate this word!) and the circulation rose nearly 45 percent between 2000 and 2010, and by 2005, the advertising revenue rose to 60 percent (which was the best year for advertisement sales since the 80s).

Besides, being commercial doesn’t mean you have to come up with awful covers and editorials. You can balance commerciality and creativity too.

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11-07-2013
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^Of course it's relevant because there are constant comparisons between the two when both are known for two completely different aesthetics, whether you yourself has mentioned Carine or not, others have and the question was asked vaguely not necessarily aimed at one individual.

The balance between commercial and creative? In the state of the collections at the moment it's almost impossible to create something creative without relying heavily on photoshop and when publications do rely on photoshop they are called out for their use of it, so it's almost impossible for any of them to win.
Yes, Carine's figures were impressive but that wasn't solely achieved by herself, there was a machine behind her and that whole cool factor of 'Team Vogue Paris' that a lot of us bought into, which when looking back, most of the pictures of 'Team Vogue Paris' at the shows were mainly based around Emmanuelle and Geraldine (with a book being released of their street style pictures subsequently).

What I find rather amusing is the people constantly moaning about each and every issue she's putting out (and every other publication, unless it features their favourite model) yet fail to address what would be an improvement. It's like that quote 'don't come to me with a problem, come to me with a solution'.

So what is actually missing from the issues? Variety? she gave us Andreaa for June/July for crying out loud.

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12-07-2013
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Seriously, Emmanuelle and her team must be doing something right.. because just about every single magazine which is on offer today, continues to emulate their aesthetic - from layout to story ideas. There are multiple publications which have copied the sections outta' Vogue Paris also.

I am pleasantly surprised at the results of the poll, though. It seems the majority would want to see Alt leave Vogue - which is sad. I would hate to learn people who were interested in my magazine would want to see me out. From what was floating around online regarding Carine's departure (the bosses wanting a more commercial magazine), Emmanuelle has done just right. She's brought us wearable editorials, story after story, the focus being on the clothes and that's it. Which is, really, what a magazine like Vogue is all about. Yeah, most would argue it's about the fantasy, but I think that's rubbish. Vogue's a business.. a business needs to sell, sell, sell. I recall Anna Wintour saying Vogue's like a brand.. like either Nike or Coca-Cola.

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12-07-2013
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This thread if actually quite cruel.

None of the people slating her have the slightest chance of firing her and at the end of the day, she was chosen to replace Carrine. Thats it. Good or bad, its a magazine.

People constantly complain about Anna Wintour shoving Celebrities on the cover of America Vogue but no one slates her saying she is doing a 'bad job'.

I feel everyone in this thread should get on with their lives and wait for the next months cover to surface and just let Emmanuelle do whatever the hell she wants.

If one day, someone in this thread becomes EIC of Vogue Paris...then we can all take a poll and ask you to leave because we hate your work, call you a talentless person and slate whatever you're doing? Sound fair? Ok, carry on.

Fashion Changes....if it didn't...Not one of us would have a job.

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12-07-2013
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^ I never get that kind of argument because if you follow that kind of logic, you cannot criticise anything (on this forum, or even in real life) unless you're directly involved with it.

Do I think she's a bad EIC? Yes. Do I think the words "Vogue Paris" do not resonate the same way since she's become EIC? Yes. Will I renew my subscription? No.
I think she was a terrible choice, for the only reason that she is a stylist, not an editor. Everything she has produced so far as EIC fell completely flat and had a serious lack of depth. If she doesn't go, they could at least hire a proper team to shake things up and make that magazine interesting again.

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12-07-2013
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The reality is that Alt was responsible for a lot of the success Roitfeld had hence why they gave her the job.

There's less shock value with what Alt is doing and I do think the magazine is better for it.

But yes, the covers have been a bit bland.

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12-07-2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vogue28 View Post
Seriously, Emmanuelle and her team must be doing something right.. because just about every single magazine which is on offer today, continues to emulate their aesthetic - from layout to story ideas. There are multiple publications which have copied the sections outta' Vogue Paris also.

I am pleasantly surprised at the results of the poll, though. It seems the majority would want to see Alt leave Vogue - which is sad. I would hate to learn people who were interested in my magazine would want to see me out. From what was floating around online regarding Carine's departure (the bosses wanting a more commercial magazine), Emmanuelle has done just right. She's brought us wearable editorials, story after story, the focus being on the clothes and that's it. Which is, really, what a magazine like Vogue is all about. Yeah, most would argue it's about the fantasy, but I think that's rubbish. Vogue's a business.. a business needs to sell, sell, sell. I recall Anna Wintour saying Vogue's like a brand.. like either Nike or Coca-Cola.

I agree, fashion magazines are a business, but there are lots of ways to run a business. There are leaders who do it better (de Brunhoff, Crescent, Vogel, Roitfeld) and make the magazine exciting and relevant, and others that… not so much (Joan Juliet, Pringle, de Langlade, Alt).

It’s revealing that during the reign of those who injected new life and excitement to the magazine, it became the global ‘leader’ in fashion imagery…

I also think ‘fantasy’ is needed to make those global labels you named desirable. If not, they wouldn’t spend so much money in getting the most famous athletes in the world (in the case of Nike and Adidas) and make eye-catching commercials with them…

This brings me to my mind the case of Louis Vuitton. Arnault said the ‘magic’ of the fashion shows increased the sales of bags insanely. It’s kind of the same with these magazines (Vogue Italia, Vogue Paris), that are not exactly ‘best-sellers’ like Vogue China, Vogue US or Vogue España. And something like that happened with Carine: the whole allure of the team, of their spreads, of their covers and of their sections made the magazine the most sought-after publication in the world. If Vogue Italia, for example, had a more commercial vision, I think it wouldn’t sell half the issues they are selling with their ‘creative’ approach, because people already have the ‘commercial Vogue’ from where they live.

I would like to know how Alt is doing in term of sales though. As I said, adopting a ‘commercial’ approach doesn’t necessarily mean the magazine is selling more…


Last edited by Creative; 12-07-2013 at 09:54 AM.
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12-07-2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kite View Post

None of the people slating her have the slightest chance of firing her and at the end of the day, she was chosen to replace Carrine.
Then... you can't talk about anything.

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13-07-2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vogue28 View Post
Seriously, Emmanuelle and her team must be doing something right.. because just about every single magazine which is on offer today, continues to emulate their aesthetic - from layout to story ideas. There are multiple publications which have copied the sections outta' Vogue Paris also.

I am pleasantly surprised at the results of the poll, though. It seems the majority would want to see Alt leave Vogue - which is sad. I would hate to learn people who were interested in my magazine would want to see me out. From what was floating around online regarding Carine's departure (the bosses wanting a more commercial magazine), Emmanuelle has done just right. She's brought us wearable editorials, story after story, the focus being on the clothes and that's it. Which is, really, what a magazine like Vogue is all about. Yeah, most would argue it's about the fantasy, but I think that's rubbish. Vogue's a business.. a business needs to sell, sell, sell. I recall Anna Wintour saying Vogue's like a brand.. like either Nike or Coca-Cola.
You mean, the sections that were created under Carine. All Alt has done is water down what Roitfeld built and introduce a couple of forgettable featurettes (aside from her blandly predictable cover succession)

And if you really consider that fashion, an inately creative business, should be ran the same way as Coca-Cola or McDonald's, I don't think that's a successful approach in the long run for whatever fashion brand. Where would Vuitton be without Marc Jacobs' creativity? Selling discount monogrammed trinkets at duty-free shops, exclusively.

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13-07-2013
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Don't question me.. question Anna Wintour (the editor-in-chief of American Vogue), who stated Vogue is a brand just like Nike or Coca-Cola, on a documentary about her editing Vogue. Wether I agree or disagree with that statement is a whole different subject.

I believe Emmanuelle was the one who introduced Miss Vogue whilst Carine was still editing (at least I heard it was Alt's idea), to introduce more reasonably priced clothing into Vogue Paris. Alt then re-worked En Vogue into C'est Vogue.. putting even more focus on accessories.

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13-07-2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arlekindearrabal View Post
You mean, the sections that were created under Carine. All Alt has done is water down what Roitfeld built and introduce a couple of forgettable featurettes (aside from her blandly predictable cover succession)

And if you really consider that fashion, an inately creative business, should be ran the same way as Coca-Cola or McDonald's, I don't think that's a successful approach in the long run for whatever fashion brand. Where would Vuitton be without Marc Jacobs' creativity? Selling discount monogrammed trinkets at duty-free shops, exclusively.
That point is completely irrelevant.

Publications are there to portray these clothes to the customer, selling a product to the customer, making them think 'I can't go a day without that suit making my life complete'.

A large proportion of you will never understand that because you're not women buying those clothes, very few of you are actually buying the clothes in Vogue Paris, at the end of the day if the money doesn't come into the stores, there are no brands to advertise therefore no publications so the key is making those clothes by their advertisers more desirable and lustful, making the customer visit the stores.

Carine took too many risks with their advertisers and that's what they're steering away from, just like what LVMH are doing with Dior, steering away from controversy and the whole extravaganza to clothes that translate well into the stores.

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14-07-2013
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Originally Posted by Chanelcouture09 View Post
That point is completely irrelevant.

Publications are there to portray these clothes to the customer, selling a product to the customer, making them think 'I can't go a day without that suit making my life complete'.

A large proportion of you will never understand that because you're not women buying those clothes, very few of you are actually buying the clothes in Vogue Paris, at the end of the day if the money doesn't come into the stores, there are no brands to advertise therefore no publications so the key is making those clothes by their advertisers more desirable and lustful, making the customer visit the stores.

Carine took too many risks with their advertisers and that's what they're steering away from, just like what LVMH are doing with Dior, steering away from controversy and the whole extravaganza to clothes that translate well into the stores.
That's not true, though. The percentage of people who buy Vogue that can afford that kind of products is tiny. I remember an ex-editor-in-chief of a ‘commercial’ Vogue saying something like that; imagine if the Vogue we're talking about is the French one...

Well, Galliano took risks the first years, and that helped a lot to create the mega-brand it is today. The whole story of Dior can be summed up by "they wanted a change". And they went for the opposite direction -minimalism-. In this case they didn't go for a different direction; they just got the editor version of Bill Gayten (a beyond poor watered-down version of the previous one with no vision and no talent at all).




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Originally Posted by vogue28 View Post
Don't question me.. question Anna Wintour (the editor-in-chief of American Vogue), who stated Vogue is a brand just like Nike or Coca-Cola, on a documentary about her editing Vogue. Wether I agree or disagree with that statement is a whole different subject.

I think you kind of misunderstood what she meant... I guess she was trying to say that Vogue is a household name as well as Coca Cola or Nike, just that (Coca Cola and Nike have nothing to do with each other…).

Anyway, if only Vogue Paris put the thousandth part of the creative effort they put in Coca Cola…

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14-07-2013
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Vogue has the capacity of making people believe the brands they feature are the relevant ones… I don’t think any stylist would try her best to showcase, let’s say, an Armani suit because then Armani is going to increase the sales of that suit. She will have a list of advertisers and will use those brands like she pleases, just trying to create a story… But once the brand is in the credits, the advertisers won’t surely care if the Hans Feurer editorial has the same aesthetic as the ninety previous ones.

Anyway, even assuming that the 100% of the people buying Vogue Paris depends on Vogue editorials to buy the products of the luxury brands, I think they could still be done in a more exciting way.


Last edited by Creative; 14-07-2013 at 08:34 AM.
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14-07-2013
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I think everyone knows Alt is a talented fashion editor but not a talented EIC. Here is the difference. I think it's quite useless to compare Roitfeld and Alt but it may be necessary in this thread. The problem , for most of tfs members apparently, is the lack of "magic". "Magic" which was extremely present with Carine roitfeld. She has created "magic" thanks to her team ( Emmanuelle Alt, Geraldine Saglio, Melanie Huynh-Utzmann, Julia Von Boehm, Claire Dhelens, Fabien Baron, Marie- Amélie Sauvé, all of them are really talented and interesting ), her work ( + her team obviously) were original ( Roitfeld/sauvé)/commercial ( Alt, Saglio, Dhelens) and they succeded to build a very effortless chic parisian girl. Now we have only a commercial vibe, a dull team ( i dont care about Capucine Safyurtlu honestly, Geraldine Saglio well it's complicated and Claire Dhelens has become boring ).

I wish Emmanuelle Alt become more original or hire a really new and creative team to have a perfect balance between commercial and creativity because, for me, she just enjoys the reputation of Vogue Paris did by Roitfeld.

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14-07-2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Creative View Post
Vogue has the capacity of making people believe the brands they feature are the relevant ones… I don’t think any stylist would try her best to showcase, let’s say, an Armani suit because then Armani is going to increase the sales of that suit. She will have a list of advertisers and will use those brands like she pleases, just trying to create a story… But once the brand is in the credits, the advertisers won’t surely care if the Hans Feurer editorial has the same aesthetic as the ninety previous ones.

Anyway, even assuming that the 100% of the people buying Vogue Paris depends on Vogue editorials to buy the products of the luxury brands, I think they could still be done in a more exciting way.
You clearly didn't even register my point and clearly don't have an understanding of where I'm coming from, if these houses were happy for publications to play fast and loose with their products then why were they so p*ssed off at Carine for taking so many risks?

Simple, if you don't like Alt, don't buy VP, go and buy something else, it's not as if someones forcing you to like it or buy it, I just think you're taking your point too far now, it's like certain stores, I don't like their clothes, I simply don't buy them, it doesn't mean everyone has to hear of my utter displeasure in their clothes or their aesthetics, it attracts a certain market that like them and this is the same as VP, it's clearly still attracting a reader, whether it be the same audience as Carine's VP I don't know and tbh I don't really care.

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