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11-07-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iluvjeisa View Post
Actually, the fantastic thing about modern societies is that we went away from "What the minister says is always right" and instead set up a number of rules and apply those, thus allowing ANYONE who can make the proper argument as significant as another person whom people may listen to based on their position.

Naturally, holding a certain title means something. But it is important to remember it does not mean everything.

You simply have to use your own mind to assess whether something is worth something or not - there are no short cuts.
Amen! Couldn't have said it better myself. It's in a sense something like I've always thought about artists, in that going to a prestigious art school and having a degree isn't necessarily going to make you any better of an artist than the say, the self-taught teenager. I know plenty of people who are extremely talented and intelligent though they lack pieces of papers that supposedly should prove their worth or level of skill, and they are sometimes more so than those who have all the prestige about them.

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11-07-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FASHIONLOVA View Post
it seems like anybody with a camera and an allowance from rich parents has become a fashion blogger.

i have yet to see someone with a real job who works hard for their money have an interesting blog.

i don t find that they contribute to fashion. few years from now nobody will know who they are
i agree with you on most points, especially the ones i quoted. however, i do feel that bloggers are here to stay. the internet isn't going anywhere, so bloggers certainly have nothing to worried about. perhaps big companies will find a way to blog creatively and that's how the bloggers we know of now may get pushed out. but i don't think they're a fad.

but you are right, they don't really contribute. i have a blog, but i'm certainly not using it as a one way ticket to fashion week. so what about the bloggers who do get those opportunities? what are they adding to fashion? just their opinions... but is that good enough? and i haven't seen a blogger yet whose personal outfits are so outstanding that i feel they make a dent on fashion. i do admit that i feel that tommy ton of jak and jil (and others in his category) are valuable with their fashion week imagery. However when you add that up, it's like 3 people. So what about the others? What about Tavi, and Bryan Boy, or even Rumi? Should they enjoy the success they have been given? What are they going to do in order to convince us they've earned it?

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11-07-2010
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^exactly. Not everyone who has a fashion blog even wants to use it for what you say, or wants to use it as a stepping stone to a career in fashion.

As for fashion bloggers who do have a wider impact, I think Susie Bubble is head and shoulders above the rest- she started off as an outsider but her blog won her enough recognition for her to be hired by Dazed. And her outfits most definitely do make a dent in fashion, largely because she follows her own instincts and doesn't really drool all over whatever's 'hot' at the moment (whether it's Balmain or Celine) but does her own thing. And I have noticed that things she tries out when most people still think they're too 'weird' and 'out there', sometimes tend to show up as styling ideas a while after she tried them out (early example: woolly jumpers with PVC leggings, in 2006).

Quote:
It's in a sense something like I've always thought about artists, in that going to a prestigious art school and having a degree isn't necessarily going to make you any better of an artist than the say, the self-taught teenager. I know plenty of people who are extremely talented and intelligent though they lack pieces of papers that supposedly should prove their worth or level of skill, and they are sometimes more so than those who have all the prestige about them.
Absolutely. Everyone's got to start out somewhere, the idea of the validity of opinions going by a hierarchy of who's "important" enough to say it really bites. Surely the logic of an argument should be seen irrespective of who makes it?

PS: FASHIONLOVA, I often find the blogs of people with 'real', non-fashion jobs more interesting than blogs by students or fashion insiders- Kingdom of Style (Queen Michelle is a graphic designer, though she blogged about losing her job a while ago) and Dreamecho (who is an electrical engineer, and who sadly doesn't update that often) are two great examples of just that. Though I do admit, I like 'insider' blogs like Libertylondongirl and Disneyrollergirl too, they're well-written and informative rather than just being faff.

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11-07-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iluvjeisa View Post
Actually, the fantastic thing about modern societies is that we went away from "What the minister says is always right" and instead set up a number of rules and apply those, thus allowing ANYONE who can make the proper argument as significant as another person whom people may listen to based on their position.
Like I said before: freedom of speech… basic rule of democratic societies for thousands of years and it has also been used for that amount of time (even in dictatorships^^). I have no problem with arguments being exchanged and positions stated, but for me it’s important that they do have a certain basis.
In science it is simple, you have to prove your theory otherwise it will be discarded.
No doubt it is more difficult with feeling based/related topics (like art), but a certain background knowledge is mandatory to draw conclusions about innovations/improvements/adaptations of the "new" things you see.
Example: If you don’t know the contributions of Salvatore Ferragamo to shoe design your opinion will be “cool looking boots” (those comments make me hate blogs, at least write why / inspired by /…) otherwise you can say “reinterpretation of a classic ZZZ, slightly adapted, as it has been seen in the collections of designer XXX in 2003 and designer YYY in 2006” so your personal opinion is backed up by useful information and set into context with them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iluvjeisa View Post
Naturally, holding a certain title means something. But it is important to remember it does not mean everything.
correct!

Quote:
Originally Posted by iluvjeisa View Post
You simply have to use your own mind to assess whether something is worth something or not - there are no short cuts.
If it is obvious that the blog is from an experienced person it helps... otherwise yapyap

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11-07-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FASHIONLOVA View Post
it seems like anybody with a camera and an allowance from rich parents has become a fashion blogger.

i have yet to see someone with a real job who works hard for their money have an interesting blog. because so far it s only been girls who just go out of their teen years who get money from their parents and women who get money from their husbands.
and to be honest, that doesn t do it for me. style is not all about the brands you re wearing.
they re making it seem like if you don t have designer items you re not stylish
another thing is, all bloggers seem to be wearing the exact same thing. just like when am on the street and all girls are dressed the same, well bloggers managed to do that on the internet.
i just can t wait for this blogger thing to be over

sea of shoes had the chance to design shoes, and her collection was terrible. Bryan boy got a marc jacobs bag named after him, karla got a coach bag, i mean this is too much, don t you think.

i don t find that they contribute to fashion. few years from now nobody will know who they are
Harsh but true -- I agree with most of your points here. There are blogs out there with people who are actually in the industry. Those are always the most interesting blogs, and it's something I try to change with my own blogs.

But blogging isnt going anywhere.

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11-07-2010
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After reading this thread I feel so self concious about my blog But I think it's important to know how people feel about this sorta thing because it's such an open ended question.

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11-07-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FASHIONLOVA View Post
it seems like anybody with a camera and an allowance from rich parents has become a fashion blogger.

i have yet to see someone with a real job who works hard for their money have an interesting blog. because so far it s only been girls who just go out of their teen years who get money from their parents and women who get money from their husbands.
and to be honest, that doesn t do it for me. style is not all about the brands you re wearing.
they re making it seem like if you don t have designer items you re not stylish

sea of shoes had the chance to design shoes, and her collection was terrible. Bryan boy got a marc jacobs bag named after him, karla got a coach bag, i mean this is too much, don t you think.
It does seem this way, and unfortunately these bloggers seem to become easily successful because their wealth (or more usually, their parent's, someone else's wealth) provides them with the things and resources to create expensive, professional looking content. And really is it hard to look good when you can open a copy of Vogue and actually buy the looks you see in their pages?

I don't envy them through. In my opinion and from experience, I would say that's an incredibly unfulfilling way to live, being given and having anything and everything you could possible want. The term "spoiled rotten" is more often true than not. I prefer my poverty, thanks.

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11-07-2010
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My problem is more the hype than the initial idea of what people were trying to do. The fact is that for every inspiring, interesting & well written blog out there, there is an awful one who gets more comments.

As softgrey said, the best blogs are usually done by people who have genuine knowledge & interest in what they write about. The blogs I like are usually creative people/ artists who dabble in fashion or spend time finding beautiful things to post. I just think something gets lost in the fact that if you have a rubbish blog but you have the time to comment LOADS of other people then a lot of them will comment back & your word gets out. They get to shout louder even if they don't deserve it.

I think it's just a matter of limiting the "oh wow i love your skirt" in favor of more in depth discussions about fashion & how it affects us as well as other things that we're interested in. It was meant to be about meeting like minded people, no?

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11-07-2010
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All very true, neonpeg.

And forgive me if this sounds horribly ungrateful but sometimes I suspect, if given the chance, I'd trade the many comments I receive for less comments that are instead more thoughtful (not that there are never any of those, there are, and I wholeheartedly savor them). I like having in-depth discussions and exchanges with other bloggers, a lot, and sure having around close to or hundreds of comments on a post is undeniably, immensely flattering (if not puzzling, at times), but when many are curt and impersonal, and only say something like, "lovely", it doesn't open up for much of an exchange of thoughts or stories or experiences, and I am well aware and under the impression that many merely leave a comment in hope for a comment of return on their own blog.

I do reply to most all the comments I receive (save for the ones that are nothing but desperate pleas for attention and self-promotion) as a courtesy, but even more so, because I truly like to interact with my readers and other bloggers. Of course, in times of having higher numbers of comments does make this somewhat more difficult, (I usually break it up over a couple of days), and though I do my best to at least read some or skim (if not fully read, if it's interesting) a post and say something more so personal in reply, to leave really in depth comments for everyone would be extensive, and I want to force it or make things up to fill space, and honesty is my policy, still ... and so, I'm afraid I too am guilty of leaving some comments that, though true and never copy-paste-comments, are bordering on being seemingly impersonal and standard.

Speaking of comments and returning comments, what rather bugs me, that I've seen numerous times is bloggers who are very active in communicating with other bloggers, and reading other's blogs, developing some friendships, etc, that is until their blog reaches a certain degree of popularity and then all the sudden they can't be bothered to reply or talk to anyone, even those who have read their blog and who they've exchanged comments with since the beginning. Makes you awful suspect that they were using you and/or others all along, to try and get to the top. I understand that if someone receives like 1,000 comments per post that it'd be quite the undertaking to reply to everyone, but it'd be nice to see some communication, otherwise they come off completely arrogant and uninterested in anyone but themselves.

Then again, rather that then they continue to pretend they care about others. Don't do it, if it's such a chore. This is blogging for heaven's sake, should be at least mostly enjoyable!

Oh wow. Sorry, this is mammoth. I say too much sometimes, I know it. And many times, I think too much too.

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11-07-2010
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My problem with fashion bloggers is that they all get to a point where they seem depressed. None of them look happy. Like being miserable is a trend. They wear the craziest stuff and yet look so serious. You get to go to a Chanel show and hang with Karl and yet look like a gun is to your head, like sheesh, smile! I lasted all but 2 seconds on Bryanboy's blog. I find all their style so try hard and wanna be but especially "look at me! I dress weird and wear designer clothes aren't I cool?" I don't know it's just very transparent to me and so fake. Ironic really when their whole shtick is being unique and real. To me they represent those kids in school that were so insecure and uncool that people made fun of them that when they got money or recognition they over did it by buying all the "cool" stuff just to prove something. I kind of think they do it just to make themselves feel better to have tons of comments and attention and not for any kind of real expression or self growth. I'm not saying that I'm the most secure person or that I was cool in school but I started blogging in my early twenties and no longer have that adolescent desire to prove something to anyone or really give a sh*t. That's why it's makes me uncomfortable when I see Tavi out there. I mean she writes well and is witty but she still is so young and when designers/people send you things or invite you places when you're that age you can feel a little guilty and think you have to do something in return or can be influenced and loose yourself and change for the worse. Sorry for the long post

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12-07-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neonpeg View Post

I think it's just a matter of limiting the "oh wow i love your skirt" in favor of more in depth discussions about fashion & how it affects us as well as other things that we're interested in. It was meant to be about meeting like minded people, no?
really?...

cause that sounds more like a FORUM to me...
:p...

BLOGS seem more like one person just talking to themselves...

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12-07-2010
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^^ I think it depends on the blog, obviously if the blog allows comments they are wanting feedback, constructive criticism and compliments, not just spam.
then you have blogs like sea of shoes who for whatever the reason, dont allow comments. which obviously turns the blog completely one sided, less like a blog and more like a normal website.

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12-07-2010
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In the case of Sea of Shoes, judging the the type of commentary I've read around (especially in this very forum) regarding her social position, opportunities and age, I think it's understandable that she decided to make feedback less accessible for people that, resented by the fact that she's around their age and enjoying a lifestyle that doesn't strike them as 'fair', would probably just drop destructive criticism and walk away.
Her 'email me' method is the traditional one, more traditional than the 'leave comments' one.. it actually feels more sincere in some way.. leaving comments in public and clearly just the positive/flattering ones can be very self-serving in some way, and then it also serves those leaving something vague (e.g. 'you and your tights are so cute!') for the sake of promoting their own blog.

I think the blog of that girl represents a lot of things that have derived out of the fashion blogger phenomenon:
In one hand you have a young girl that clearly has a thirst to learn and challenge herself and her viewers through the material she acquires, she understands it surprisingly well, or at least pretends to do so, but generally that's just very rare in bloggers, most bloggers, let's be honest, have no clue on what they're talking about, they will praise a collection or an editorial but are not visibly interested in what's behind it, in making you wonder, in publicly and fearlessly attempting to break down in pieces what they're presenting and putting it back together in their own way, they just want to have that collection in their blog. Her circumstances and 'special access' do help her, but autodidacticism combined with receptiveness to process it is a very very rare combination that has nothing to do with social background and that girl just has it. What's unfortunate about her blog and also quite representative about other/most bloggers is the increasing attention that leads to an increasing need for consumerism in order to keep people interested, and before you know it, your blog is more about latest acquisitions than actual expression and experiments of your own personal style, which, for someone young, is too much pressure EVEN IF you have easy access to whatever you want.. mostly because being young is the time to experiment, explore, make mistakes and find what belongs to your skin and makes you feel like yourself.. once you've even figured out who you are!. I find that a constant switch of wardrobe, a desperate incorporation of what's trendy and trying to decipher what's on the horizon to be 'ahead' of the road yourself and stay relevant, all through something as personal as style can be, is very limiting, it makes you miss the incredible freedom of intimacy and turns you into a victim of the boutique-like rules set up for your blog by yourself and by the demand it generated. I think so much phasing, fickleness and keeping attention as the main priority is what ultimately makes someone with great potential become less of an individual, settling for what appeals to others and consequently, more prompt to be forgotten. Not before inviting their readers to be just like that.

Attention is such a scary weapon and I'm not sure most people are as prepared for it as they think they are.

(I was going to say what's on the other hand but got carried away with the first one that I just forgot it, I should get back in here tomorrow )

Susanne-Cole, don't apologise for long posts, that's what this entire section was created for, to discuss things 'in depth'.. as long as we don't end up discussing YOUR blogging strategies in depth, I think it's great to read what everyone has to say about it. :p

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Last edited by MulletProof; 12-07-2010 at 01:55 AM.
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12-07-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by softgrey View Post
really?...

cause that sounds more like a FORUM to me...
:p...

BLOGS seem more like one person just talking to themselves...
This could be the case for some, of course, however, I think one of the best things about blogging is the meeting of minds and yes, sometimes finding those who share interests of yours that are uncommon in your area otherwise. If I wanted to "talk to myself", as you say, I certainly wouldn't do it in a place as public as the internet.

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12-07-2010
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neonpeg really hit the nail for me. I do think it's important for comments to be more than just a cry for clicks. It's one of the reasons why I favor writing in blogs, it's just so easy to have a hundred comments complimenting your dress/skin/whatever that could be completely baseless and feel random and uninterested. I always feel so much more compelled to comment on what people are saying, whether it be informed or not (because, let's face it, I don't really turn to bloggers thinking they'll be my source for anything at all). And in a way, I think interacting between bloggers can be just as interesting as posting on forums, with the added bonus that you get a rather clear image of who you're talking to and why.

Also, MulletProof
Quote:
What's unfortunate about her blog and also quite representative about other/most bloggers is the increasing attention that leads to an increasing need for consumerism in order to keep people interested, and before you know it, your blog is more about latest acquisitions than actual expression and experiments of your own personal style, which, for someone young, is too much pressure EVEN IF you have easy access to whatever you want.. mostly because being young is the time to experiment, explore, make mistakes and find what belongs to your skin and makes you feel like yourself.. once you've even figured out who you are!. I find that a constant switch of wardrobe, a desperate incorporation of what's trendy and trying to decipher what's on the horizon to be 'ahead' of the road yourself and stay relevant, all through something as personal as style can be, is very limiting, it makes you miss the incredible freedom of intimacy and turns you into a victim of the boutique-like rules set up for your blog by yourself and by the demand it generated. I think so much phasing, fickleness and keeping attention as the main priority is what ultimately makes someone with great potential become less of an individual, settling for what appeals to others and consequently, more prompt to be forgotten. Not before inviting their readers to be just like that.

Attention is such a scary weapon and I'm not sure most people are as prepared for it as they think they are.
UM, YES. Seriously. This sums up everything I've ever felt about personal style blogs, and the reason why I'm basically blasé when it comes to most fashion related blogs and perhaps the fashion world in general. All this fast fashion and consumerism, flash trends and minute-by-minute wardrobe renewal make me a bit ill, especially when I realize that I've unwillingly become part of it . I think it's something that a lot of fashion bloggers promote, because I guess this culture of consumption is the what a lot of young people equate to luxury and sophistication.

Ugh, I'm sick and I wish I could put my thoughts into words as eloquently as my dear Mullet

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