How to Join
the Fashion Spot / Front Row / Fashion... In Depth
FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Rules Links Mobile How to Join
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
09-06-2014
  91
V.I.P.
 
Not Plain Jane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Canada
Gender: femme
Posts: 11,732
Below is the link to an interesting article from TIME magazine written by Susan Scafidi, "a professor at Fordham Law School, founder of the nonprofit Fashion Law Institute, and the author of Who Owns Culture? Appropriation and Authenticity in American Law"

It's about the fine line between inspiration and appropriation, taking as its jumping off point the recent Pharell faux pas.

http://time.com/2840461/pharrell-nat...Top+Stories%29

__________________
Fashion: Don’t you recognize me? Death: You should know that I don’t see very well and I can’t wear glasses. Fashion: I’m Fashion, your sister. Death: My sister? Fashion: Yes. You and I together keep undoing and changing things down here on earth although you go about it in one way and I another. Giacomo Leopardi, “Dialogue Between Fashion and Death.”abridged
  Reply With Quote
 
20-02-2015
  92
V.I.P.
 
Not Plain Jane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Canada
Gender: femme
Posts: 11,732
Cultural Appropriation At Anna Sui New York Fashion Week Show

FEBRUARY 18, 2015 - Anna Sui presented her Fall/Winter 2015 Collection at Lincoln Center during Mercedes-Benz New York Fashion Week, and the show seemed to use traditional Inuit facial tattoos:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/margscrawf/c...ypes=og.shares

buzzfeed

__________________
Fashion: Don’t you recognize me? Death: You should know that I don’t see very well and I can’t wear glasses. Fashion: I’m Fashion, your sister. Death: My sister? Fashion: Yes. You and I together keep undoing and changing things down here on earth although you go about it in one way and I another. Giacomo Leopardi, “Dialogue Between Fashion and Death.”abridged
  Reply With Quote
20-02-2015
  93
tfs star
 
gulsah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Gender: femme
Posts: 1,756
A.P.C. Founder, Jean Touitou, Uses The N-Word To Describe Latest Collection
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/0...n_6559556.html

  Reply With Quote
06-03-2015
  94
V.I.P.
 
Not Plain Jane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Canada
Gender: femme
Posts: 11,732
On DSquared2’s Racist and Extraordinarily Offensive FW15 Line “DSquaw”

http://themuse.jezebel.com/on-dsquar...ium=socialflow

__________________
Fashion: Don’t you recognize me? Death: You should know that I don’t see very well and I can’t wear glasses. Fashion: I’m Fashion, your sister. Death: My sister? Fashion: Yes. You and I together keep undoing and changing things down here on earth although you go about it in one way and I another. Giacomo Leopardi, “Dialogue Between Fashion and Death.”abridged
  Reply With Quote
06-03-2015
  95
Fat Karl
 
dior_couture1245's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NY
Gender: homme
Posts: 6,764
One chooses to be offended. End of story.

__________________
"DIOR, NOT WAR!"
  Reply With Quote
06-03-2015
  96
windowshopping
 
MattSimasArt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Toronto, Canada
Gender: homme
Posts: 22
Um, no. One chooses to be ignorant about other cultures and use it as they see fit for what they want. People have the right to be offended by a lot of this stuff. It's wrapped in a huge disregard for the actual people of that culture, a lot of the time. It's not about people being 'sensitive', it's about how too many designers just take things from different cultures and exploit it. I mean, it's 2015 and we still see the occasional blackface in magazines iron the runway. Why? Something like that is highly offensive and there's no way around it. Just don't do it.
I think cultural influences are fine. There's a difference from influence and from straight up cultural appropriation. I guess, it's a very fine line, though.


Last edited by MattSimasArt; 06-03-2015 at 01:50 PM.
  Reply With Quote
06-03-2015
  97
V.I.P.
 
Not Plain Jane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Canada
Gender: femme
Posts: 11,732
i don't think that sort of postmodern relativism or individualism - i.e., it's up to the viewer whether he or she is offended - works when it comes to an entire culture. it's more complex than that. using the word "squaw" alone could be deemed offensive since it was a word used by white colonizers to describe aboriginal women. it's derisive. these 2 designers - being from canada - should know that, imo, and thus should be very careful about their wording and their inspirations, not to mention from where they get (or take?) their ideas.

__________________
Fashion: Don’t you recognize me? Death: You should know that I don’t see very well and I can’t wear glasses. Fashion: I’m Fashion, your sister. Death: My sister? Fashion: Yes. You and I together keep undoing and changing things down here on earth although you go about it in one way and I another. Giacomo Leopardi, “Dialogue Between Fashion and Death.”abridged
  Reply With Quote
01-04-2015
  98
Fat Karl
 
dior_couture1245's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NY
Gender: homme
Posts: 6,764
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattSimasArt View Post
Um, no. One chooses to be ignorant about other cultures and use it as they see fit for what they want. People have the right to be offended by a lot of this stuff. It's wrapped in a huge disregard for the actual people of that culture, a lot of the time. It's not about people being 'sensitive', it's about how too many designers just take things from different cultures and exploit it. I mean, it's 2015 and we still see the occasional blackface in magazines iron the runway. Why? Something like that is highly offensive and there's no way around it. Just don't do it.
I think cultural influences are fine. There's a difference from influence and from straight up cultural appropriation. I guess, it's a very fine line, though.
I will never understand or agree with this point of view. We live in an age of Political Correctness that is culturally and creatively stifling. We all wonder why fashion (and music, and film, and television, etc) is so dull these days, and I would say in large part it's due to the fear to "offend" that everyone has instilled in them at this point.

We live in a global world now. We have access to everything. I understand the reflex in taking offense - with access to everything, people start to subconsciously want to protect everything that is "theirs." But that's just it. What is "ours," anyway? We don't own anything in our respective cultures. Culture is an amassed dialogue of individuals that evolves and morphs and has done so for thousands of years. I do not "own" American culture. Therefor, how can I be offended when others are interested in and are inspired by American culture or iconography.

Now of course, it'd be easy for someone to come back at this argument with the age old "white guilt" or "American Privilege" schitck. However, by perpetuating this mentality, society is only reinforcing the "oppressor/oppressed" roles.

This isn't the 1500's anymore...where entire countries and entire continents were unknown to each other. Where entire civilizations, big and small, were closed off to foreigners. Regardless of the past (no one is innocent in history), we live in a free market society where we all have access to people, cultures, ideas and products from every country on this earth. There is simply NO POSSIBLE WAY to police or to define that "fine line" when someone is inspired by something from another culture.

Additionally, this cultural appropriation crusade is very naive in its concept of creativity. You cannot bottle creativity. You cannot contain it. You cannot control what people find beautiful and what people want to wear or make. You also cannot police something such as "cultural appropriation" as a universal evil when you have no idea what someone's intention is behind using something creatively from another culture. Can you really deny someone the right to wear a kimono or a Native American headdress, for example, if they genuinely love it? Denying that person that right to wear that headdress is denying Freedom of Speech. Seeing cheap Native American headdresses worn at Coachella, on the other hand, should not be offensive because they are specifically wearing a Native American headdress - you should be offended that these are unintelligent, uninteresting and unbelievably average people with no thoughts or personalities of their own. That's what's offensive. And so, even in those instances, Freedom of Speech MUST be maintained, and these brainless people have every right to wear that headdress. Denying anyone the freedom to do so, regardless of whether their intention is of love or out of stupidity, is to essentially advocate for a fascist society.

__________________
"DIOR, NOT WAR!"

Last edited by dior_couture1245; 01-04-2015 at 11:09 AM.
  Reply With Quote
01-04-2015
  99
Power to the 99%
 
fashionista-ta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hardly ever at Barney's
Gender: femme
Posts: 14,100
That would be true if there were no limits on personal freedom, or if the only purpose of society were to ensure maximum freedom to the individual. That is not my understanding of what our purpose is.

I find it naïve to believe that because we now have a 'global' society, the oppressions of the past no longer matter. They do matter, because not only do they continue today, but the consequences of past oppression live on and continue to have consequences, which I believe actually affect all of us.

When a culture that has experienced genocide (as natives in the US did) expresses offense at cultural appropriation, I take that seriously and I think we all should. I'm certainly going to listen and try to understand.

__________________
There's a need for more individuality today, and my job is to cater to women, not dictate to them.
--Alber Elbaz
  Reply With Quote
01-04-2015
  100
Fat Karl
 
dior_couture1245's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NY
Gender: homme
Posts: 6,764
History is so incomprehensibly messy that how can anyone claim ownership of any one thing? For centuries now, cultures, races, religions, societies and individuals have been mixing so intensely that in contemporary society, there isn't a single human alive who isn't influenced by a culture that is not their own. How can we go around policing people on what they can and cannot use when every single aspect of our lives is cultural appropriation.


Last edited by dior_couture1245; 01-04-2015 at 10:22 PM.
  Reply With Quote
02-04-2015
  101
backstage pass
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: California
Gender: femme
Posts: 727
^But how is history messy? Explain that?

Native American's specifically, are you questioning their existence as the original inhabitants on American soil?

And every single aspect of our lives are culturally appropriated? How?

Quote:
Can you really deny someone the right to wear a kimono or a Native American headdress, for example, if they genuinely love it? Denying that person that right to wear that headdress is denying Freedom of Speech.
Specifically this... When it comes to the age old headdress in fashion issue, it is one of the clearest examples of cultural appropriation. I made it a point to understand why and maybe you should too: http://apihtawikosisan.com/hall-of-s...n-headdresses/

  Reply With Quote
02-04-2015
  102
Fat Karl
 
dior_couture1245's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NY
Gender: homme
Posts: 6,764
History IS messy! Nothing is simple and nothing is by the textbook. Never has been and never will. History is summed up neatly and packaged into a digestible, understandable story. But think how complicated, nuanced and volatile life and society is now. Do you think that's a modern perdicament? Life and society has always been incredibly complicated, nuanced and volatile. Historians just package it nicely for us to comprehend with a clear cut answer to every question and a moral of the story, too - as if it were all just simpler times, then. To think or believe otherwise is dangerously naïve. Nothing in this world is black and white. Nothing. Everything is grey matter.

And yes - every aspect of our lives is culturally appropriated. Unless you've been living in a vacuum - everything you eat, everything you wear, everything you listen to, everything you consume, the way you cut your hair, the beauty products you use daily, the car you drive, the home you live in...EVERYTHING is a result of centuries of different people, different ideas, different cultures coming together, influencing each other, taking ideas, collaborating, being inspired by and yes, sometimes ripping each other off. All ideas and concepts and designs and creations are an evolution of collective thought. You cannot regulate it. To try to regulate it is absolutely futile and incredibly dangerous.


Last edited by dior_couture1245; 02-04-2015 at 01:38 AM.
  Reply With Quote
02-04-2015
  103
V.I.P.
 
Not Plain Jane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Canada
Gender: femme
Posts: 11,732
^ i do take your point, re: overzealous political correctness being, at times, stifling creatively, and i agree that history is tremendously complex and nuanced, very tough to capture.

but i still don't accept D2 calling their collection a "squaw" collection.

i am all for freedom of speech, but again, some things really DO need to be tempered or stopped altogether. look at caricatures of black or jewish people in posters and art of the past - surely that's not "fair game" because history is nuanced and we're a very politically correct society?

similarly, victoria secret models parading around in underwear and a native american sacred headdress, or some white male designers using the word "squaw" to describe their clothes, those things just aren't cool. they're atavistic.

what if someone came along and said this is my "n-word" collection?
JUST NO. some lines do have to be drawn imo.

__________________
Fashion: Don’t you recognize me? Death: You should know that I don’t see very well and I can’t wear glasses. Fashion: I’m Fashion, your sister. Death: My sister? Fashion: Yes. You and I together keep undoing and changing things down here on earth although you go about it in one way and I another. Giacomo Leopardi, “Dialogue Between Fashion and Death.”abridged
  Reply With Quote
02-04-2015
  104
Power to the 99%
 
fashionista-ta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hardly ever at Barney's
Gender: femme
Posts: 14,100
^ Actually, that just happened, right? (The n-word collection)

I didn't think it took a lot to comprehend that there is only one group of people who get to own the n-word and use it, or not.

__________________
There's a need for more individuality today, and my job is to cater to women, not dictate to them.
--Alber Elbaz
  Reply With Quote
02-04-2015
  105
barcode
 
Spike413's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: New York
Gender: homme
Posts: 14,497
I think it's somewhat irresponsible to lump the use of words that were created solely as derogatory names for a person who is different than you (n****r, squaw, kyke, guinea, chink, etc.) in with the borrowing of symbolism/items/decoration that were never created to offend, oppress or degrade anyone and which, in the majority of cases I would imagine, were never borrowed with the intention of degrading or offending either. They're two ENTIRELY different topics at the end of the day, and one -- the use of offensive, hurtful, racist words -- is a fairly black and white topic while the other is anything but.

As for the question of cultural appropriation, to me it's an all or nothing sort of proposition -- either it's okay to do so when the intention is not to defame or hurt or it's not okay at all and no one should do so. I mean, where do we draw the line? Should non-Caucasian people not dye their hair blonde if they wish, simply because it's a primarily white European characteristic? Should people in East Asia not wear jeans because jeans were invented in America by European immigrants? What about Greek key motifs, or Scandinavian patterned sweaters, or sarongs, or turban-style hats, or big hoop earrings? Should showgirls or drag queens never wear feathered headdresses because they were historically worn as crowns by Mayans and Aztecs? Where is the line drawn between what is totally acceptable culturally appropriated clothing and what isn't? Is it only when it's pulled from cultures that have somehow been more downtrodden than the ones borrowing it? Because as dior couture pointed out above, throughout history pretty much everyone has been oppressed at some point or another.

__________________
You need to move fashion forward when there's a reason to move fashion forward - Tom Ford

  Reply With Quote
Reply
Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Tags
appropriation, cultural, fashion
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

monitoring_string = "058526dd2635cb6818386bfd373b82a4"


 
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:30 PM.
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
TheFashionSpot.com is a property of TotallyHer Media, LLC, an Evolve Media LLC company. ©2015 All rights reserved.