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04-09-2005
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I think fashion ( and culture ) need to look more at men's fashion and stop the traditionalism and boringness.

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05-09-2005
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^^ excellent posts everyone. I think the main thing that needs addressed is the trend in fashion (in its loose sense) towards informality - slobishness, tracksuits, trainers, jeans sweatshirts & generally a lack of concern about fashion that prevails. Fashion needs to satrt inspiring peole's imaginations and giving people pride back.

I agree with the Baron's point about fashion becomeing more socially and environmentally responsible. I don't want to buy clothes that are so cheap because I (indirectly) have exploited people in a poor country that I will throw away soon (hence wasting all the energy used to make that item).

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05-09-2005
  18
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^ ooh, i agree 100%...bring back pride in fashion! when i go out at night to a club or party, i *always* do my best to look nice...and then i see people in jeans and tshirts and it really disturbes me... and sometimes i like to dress nice when i'm just going out on the town, and then people ask "why are you dressed up??" ...as if i really need an excuse! chic does not necessarily = uncomfortable. i find sometimes jeans are harder to move around in than a good skirt....

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06-09-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fashionista-ta
Here's another one ... I'd like to see a single garment handle the problem of a day that starts cold and ends warm. Would give a whole new meaning to transitional clothes
you'd probably be interested in this thread

http://www.thefashionspot.com/forums...nanotechnology

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06-09-2005
  20
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Conservative fashion. You don't see this often, but I can tell when a designer has no soul... kidding

I agree...
-Having money does not = having style
-Having your own original style = good

Oh and something about the prices of high end items.

I like the high end clothing prices how they are, even though I can't afford them most of the time. Can you imagine if everyone who loved dior wore it every day? For me, the clothes wouldn't be as appealing. Not because of the price, but because they wouldnt be as original.

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06-09-2005
  21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justinleaddict
Conservative fashion. You don't see this often, but I can tell when a designer has no soul... kidding

I agree...
-Having money does not = having style
-Having your own original style = good

Oh and something about the prices of high end items.

I like the high end clothing prices how they are, even though I can't afford them most of the time. Can you imagine if everyone who loved dior wore it every day? For me, the clothes wouldn't be as appealing. Not because of the price, but because they wouldnt be as original.
Now *there* would be an innovation ... a soul for Karl

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07-09-2005
  22
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John,excellent post!

This is precisely the sentiments I feel that's being felt at the moment. With so much directed towards capitalism and marketing,homogenisation is ruining fashion as we know it as design. To quote Vivienne Westwood...."the only way to fight transgression is to come up with an idea". In that,creativity and originality must always be at the fore. Gimmicks,banality and all that status nonsense are pushing the entire concept of fashion into a deep depressing hole,imho. The gimmicks of course being the high-profile personalities invading the industry like a swarm of bees. It really is quite insulting to the real talents who never get an ounce of attention....but also equally insulting to them when the industry flocks to these people like a frenzied mob at one of their concerts or films.

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07-09-2005
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-where is high fashion produced? In cheaper places like in China or in "tastier" places like Italy

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07-09-2005
  24
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Things don't have to be expensive to be original.

Look at the music industry. A CD from an indie label by an adventurous, creative artist will cost you the same amount as a CD by the latest corporate focus-grouped mass-market teen pop-slut sensation. If something is truly distinctive, it becomes inherently self-selecting.

I propose that the vast majority of the people who have been marketed into thinking Ashlee Simpson is their favorite musical artist ever would actually prefer deep down in their souls to find music that was more attuned to their individuality. I'd argue the same of all the people who are obsessively into Dior or Prada or any of the big houses whose appeal far outreaches their distribution.

If fashion becomes more decentralized and more humanist, it will mean more designers working and more originality in the marketplace. As with music, people will start to make more of their own choices as the choices available become more relevant to them. Presently, for most people the choice between "meaningless widget A" and "meaningless widget B" is meaningless until marketing tips the scale.

Yes, fashion will always have a justifiably high-priced high end, in which craft and materials necessitate the price. (e.g. Bespoke tailoring that provides a fair wage to the tailor will never be cheap.) But expense does not automatically equate to originality, not in this modern era of brand tyranny. A $250 Dior t-shirt is expensive primarily because of branding, not because of originality or the degree of craft required to produce it.

I don't fear a world of cheaper fashion because I don't think it will lead to the whole world walking around in Dior. Maybe I'm being idealistic, but I look forward to a future when people feel fashionable not because they are wearing Prada Sport with the little red bit hanging out for all the world to see, but because they are wearing something that suits them perfectly and they look so good it won't matter if no one recognizes the designer.



Quote:
Originally Posted by justinleaddict
Oh and something about the prices of high end items.

I like the high end clothing prices how they are, even though I can't afford them most of the time. Can you imagine if everyone who loved dior wore it every day? For me, the clothes wouldn't be as appealing. Not because of the price, but because they wouldnt be as original.

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07-09-2005
  25
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p.s. Thanks for the warm welcome, everyone. Here in Austin there's nowhere that even carries the vast majority of the designers discussed on this board (and if we're talking menswear, the situation is even more dire), so it's nice to have an outlet to ogle all the new ideas coming down the runways and talk about the art of fashion.

There's that centralization problem again, in the form of distribution.

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07-09-2005
  26
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Baron, you are truly an optimist--I love it

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Baron
Things don't have to be expensive to be original.

Look at the music industry. A CD from an indie label by an adventurous, creative artist will cost you the same amount as a CD by the latest corporate focus-grouped mass-market teen pop-slut sensation. If something is truly distinctive, it becomes inherently self-selecting.

I propose that the vast majority of the people who have been marketed into thinking Ashlee Simpson is their favorite musical artist ever would actually prefer deep down in their souls to find music that was more attuned to their individuality. I'd argue the same of all the people who are obsessively into Dior or Prada or any of the big houses whose appeal far outreaches their distribution.

If fashion becomes more decentralized and more humanist, it will mean more designers working and more originality in the marketplace. As with music, people will start to make more of their own choices as the choices available become more relevant to them. Presently, for most people the choice between "meaningless widget A" and "meaningless widget B" is meaningless until marketing tips the scale.

Yes, fashion will always have a justifiably high-priced high end, in which craft and materials necessitate the price. (e.g. Bespoke tailoring that provides a fair wage to the tailor will never be cheap.) But expense does not automatically equate to originality, not in this modern era of brand tyranny. A $250 Dior t-shirt is expensive primarily because of branding, not because of originality or the degree of craft required to produce it.

I don't fear a world of cheaper fashion because I don't think it will lead to the whole world walking around in Dior. Maybe I'm being idealistic, but I look forward to a future when people feel fashionable not because they are wearing Prada Sport with the little red bit hanging out for all the world to see, but because they are wearing something that suits them perfectly and they look so good it won't matter if no one recognizes the designer.


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07-09-2005
  27
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Quote:
Things don't have to be expensive to be original.

Look at the music industry. A CD from an indie label by an adventurous, creative artist will cost you the same amount as a CD by the latest corporate focus-grouped mass-market teen pop-slut sensation. If something is truly distinctive, it becomes inherently self-selecting.

There's that centralization problem again, in the form of distribution.
i would agree. the music industry by nature, however, has ALOT more options for distribution with file sharing, myspace music etc..basically eliminating the big bad corp. guys. take danger mouse for instance who sampled and file shared himself illegally to the most critically acclaimed album of 2004. basically they had to adknowledge that this 'epidemic' wouldn't go away and give some of the power back to the people.


how would you propose we get to that same place in fashion?

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07-09-2005
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frankly, i think the solution would be eliminating tv and banning ads. all the noise, and the obsession with pop. culture would be on mute so it would give people more breathing room to think. i think the majority of time people spend trying to fend off this type of assault, that rarely do people feel confident enough to distance themselves from it and allow themselves to think critically. once they do, they'll gain personal freedom.

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07-09-2005
  29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travolta
frankly, i think the solution would be eliminating tv and banning ads. all the noise, and the obsession with pop. culture would be on mute so it would give people more breathing room to think. i think the majority of time people spend trying to fend off this type of assault, that rarely do people feel confident enough to distance themselves from it and allow themselves to think critically. once they do, they'll gain personal freedom.
I like your idealistic thinking. I want the same things you want. But what would the capitalists say?

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07-09-2005
  30
Power to the 99%
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travolta
frankly, i think the solution would be eliminating tv and banning ads. all the noise, and the obsession with pop. culture would be on mute so it would give people more breathing room to think. i think the majority of time people spend trying to fend off this type of assault, that rarely do people feel confident enough to distance themselves from it and allow themselves to think critically. once they do, they'll gain personal freedom.
How many people feel the lack of personal freedom, I wonder?

Btw, I unplugged my TV in early '99 (around the time of the blue dress, I'd heard enough), and I love it. It really is an assault. My house is quiet and peaceful and I have so much time to read and do other things.

If you look at personality test results, it seems pretty clear that a lot of people are followers, who get a great deal of comfort and a sense of wellbeing from learning and following the rules. It's only a minority who get a great deal of discomfort from exactly the same thing. I don't like it, but I accept it

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