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01-09-2005
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very good thread. but you guys ar missing the point in a sense. first of all, in what context are we using the word innovation? an innovator is someone who creates new ideas and products, the problem with fashion is that it is limited by the anatomy (we only have four limbs and one torso, so whats the point of making four legged pants, for who? horses?
McQueen was an innovator with the bumster pants that created the low Rise pants that exists to this day,Galliano was an innovator because he created the Modern couture spectacle (althugh one could argue though that claude montana, gaultier and mugler was ahead of him in the eighties) theyskens was innovative with the new way we look at gothic fashion
the problem with innovation in fashion is that fashion changes every six months so if i as a designer create something today i have to forget about it and start preparing for next season therfore the impact and usefulness of it is not always felt.
truly though mass merchants like H&M seem to have now a greater impact on the way ppl dress than high end designrs (even though they are largely copying the work of said designers)

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01-09-2005
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i think with fashion it's either got to change what clothing IS like issey miyake eliminating the needle and thread and traditional methods of manufacture (sweatshops) it's a very real thing that would be felt across the world.

or, it is looking at how we see life. it's like the introduction of new ways of thought, almost like religion.

in the case of issey miyake and rei, they both were born either pre world war II or around the time of, which is significant because japan was for the most part closed off from the western world. when they introduced the 'hiroshima chic' look to paris it did seem like another species. it wasn't pristine, but you could feel the garment's or wearers mortality. it wasn't a uniform or a symbol representing a person's ego, it was suited for real people's lifestyle and in a way,saying individualism isn't so important cause it's all the same. rei is able to be so flexible because she sees things arent so seperate..aesthetics, trends, design areas, cultures (hence the name comme des garcons) etc. they are innovative because it's about connecting things not seperating them.

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01-09-2005
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i would have to say any of the punky designers, Comme des Garcons (spelling?) or Vivienne westwood (again with the spelling). And as for minimalism its still around you can deffinately see it in the designs of Hedi and Helmet, although Helmet is a total moron with the way he designs, NOBODY IS GOING TO WEAR THOSE SHOES HELMET NOW STOP. STOP I SAID!!!

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01-09-2005
  34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by softgrey
i think there is a different set of skills being nurtured these days in the fashion world...

just like you have sampling in music...
but some people (like vanilla ice let's say) will just steal the melody...and others will take it and layer on different nuances and intricate sounds and details to come up with something that stand on its own in a totally unique and beautiful way...

i also compare it to collage...
it's a matter of taking some things that already exist...
but there will be hundreds, maybe thousands of ways of combining those elements...
some will be remarkably innovative and yield as a result something that has never been seen before...

that's how i see it anyway...
I agree ... I think sampling is a very good comparison. (Anybody else been listening to rap week on NPR?)

I'm also not sure that innovation is always a good thing. For example, the fraying/raw seam/heavy distressing trend mentioned earlier ... is that really a good thing? Doesn't it ultimately lead to poorer overall quality/durability in the industry? Isn't at least a lot of it just additional planned obsolescence ... delivering the goods half worn-out already?

What I'm suggesting is, perhaps some innovation is good (moves us in a positive direction), some is bad (moves us in a negative direction), and some is neutral.

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01-09-2005
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For me... I am into WESTWOOD
But it bores me as in my Country, they don't bring in her labels... sad case

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01-09-2005
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What's happening to fashion? I think the dream isn't there anymore

Those designers who dare to dream and come up with these beautiful creations are the innovators. As far as design goes, nothing is original. It's a cliche, sure! However, those who treat the fabric in a certain way in order to make clothes a big deal are the people who should be given credit.

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01-09-2005
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Good post zamb... but just like we don't care about four legged pants, why do we care about low rise pants? Some of us do, I guess, but I'm totally unsatisfied with the innovations going on... they don't mean anything. The designers are missing some important things that need to be "innovated on." First, I can't believe there aren't a few high fashion designers out there who have the right idea on different body types. I know, it's too hard to sell clothes when you show them on big people -- that's the point of innovating! This has to be overcome, I guess it is, slowly, with minor steps like the CdG lumpy volumes collection. But I'd like to see more.

At the same time... this isn't an era of rebellion. Fashion can't change the world on its own, there is no important counterculture at the moment to cue the innovative designers. I can't see how the world would make important changes in their dress unless there's a politic behind it.

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01-09-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travolta
i think junya watanabe and hussein chalayan are on the second tier? junya because he's creating clothing in the spirit of the japanese avant garde movement, but with a utilitarian interest -- soulful smart clothing.
exactly! i couldnt have put it better myself... i am so utilitarian, thats why i like him the most...

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01-09-2005
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Quote:
For example, the fraying/raw seam/heavy distressing trend mentioned earlier ... is that really a good thing? Doesn't it ultimately lead to poorer overall quality/durability in the industry? Isn't at least a lot of it just additional planned obsolescence ... delivering the goods half worn-out already?
i think rei created a new way to think about deconstruction and aesthetics, but she didn't apply it as an actual product the average joe could buy. that said, there is something to deconstruction if you think of it rather like seams in concrete floors of buildings to distribute pressure. pre- distressed. it is broken in a bit or built in 'flaws' to create a much more usable design. to uncover flaws and highlight them such as pilling or wrinkles is innovative because it is designed to be lived in without much maitenance... that way you don't need 'tons' of clothing, and it also isn't designed to stay the same either just as wood weathers warps...you can design for the way people fluctuate weight and fabric that breaks down.

that's wear innovations such as pleats please comes in because it's practical for all shapes and sizes without seams that unravel and dry cleaning. i think there are TONS of ways to innovate, certainly industrial designers never think everything has been done! clothing is a product just like anything else. but like it's been said, most high fashion designers choose to recycle the same nostalgia over and over and miss the point and the opportunity.

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Last edited by travolta; 01-09-2005 at 10:00 PM.
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01-09-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lena
agreed on Margiela brian, he has already done enough innovation to last him two creative lifetimes
I love that! Certainly most notable in capturing the spirit of recycling before anybody really...

I still think Kawakubo innovates though-not just in her work themselves but also her various projects. Boudicca designers Zowie Broach and Brian Kirby are perhaps the most innovative of the present. The sharpness of their tailoring....the interesting and unique fabrication treatments....the precision detailings...not to mention their vision.

That said,I do think there are still plenty of designers who use their work to push boundries.....whether that be interpreting things from the past and making them feesable for the future or going all out in a completely new way like Zowie and Brian does now...it's all still relevant to me,I think. As long as it's original and completely personal to their own ideals,at least.

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01-09-2005
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It seems no one is innovating on a broad enough basis. To be a full innovator you should take the world by storm, not just those 'in the know' as a few have mentioned before. I think fashion has leveled off because of mass marketing and big brands toted around by celebrities - it is about the money.. it's always about the money nowadays. Perhaps if the designers have stopped innovating, we must start. Find new ways to work old pieces. Add couture details to ready to wear clothes. We cannot complain if we haven't tried to change it ourselves.

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01-09-2005
  42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bellavita
It seems no one is innovating on a broad enough basis. To be a full innovator you should take the world by storm, not just those 'in the know' as a few have mentioned before. I think fashion has leveled off because of mass marketing and big brands toted around by celebrities - it is about the money.. it's always about the money nowadays. Perhaps if the designers have stopped innovating, we must start. Find new ways to work old pieces. Add couture details to ready to wear clothes. We cannot complain if we haven't tried to change it ourselves.
exactly, thats why i've stated that the economic situation at the moment does not allow too much 'innovation' to get through to general public..
boutique owners are cutting down budgets and just want to invest in ordering 'safe' this has a very real effect
marketing makes a difference
even if there are designers with REAL innovative work its too herd to know their work since boutiques play safe

welcome to tFS bellavita

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02-09-2005
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I wonder if avant garde designers really ever influenced mass fashion anymore. I think it's really only people like, as menchend befor, heidi sliamen who has a 'diffrent' astehtic but has enough PR and money.

As far as true inovation I think Rei Kawakubo is still at the top. Theres also junya, miyake, (early) chalayan and others. Personally I think the socialy aware 'post modern' designs of bernhard willhelm, wendy&jim, raf simons, undercover are also very inovative, and anne sofie back for chalanging what is 'beautiful', willhelm has been doing this a little to.

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02-09-2005
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Ah, thank you Lena, it's always nice to be welcomed

And you are very right. Exposure is key.. I wonder what I'd do if I was in the position of one of those few innovating designers. It'd be so frustrating knowing (or hoping at least) that you have the styles of the future even though everyone is paying attention to old outdated ideas. I think I'd try to latch on to a big name until I get enough credentials for people to notice, but that's slightly awful isn't it?

I think I'd boycott all big overused lines and stick to the unkown innovators who go against the norm... if only my budget would allow it. I do believe it's time for change, but I fear that few others outside fashion would agree.

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02-09-2005
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miguel androver

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