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07-09-2005
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I'm trying to understand if the fashion system really cares about inovation or just newness. One thing is for sure, fashion is quick to drop things when they become not new. For instance I'm told that Margiella mens clothes are going to be moved from the directional designer floor (3rd floor in New York) to 4th floor next to Armani, Ermengilda Zegna excetera next season. Really Margiela is way more innovative than many of the designers still on 3rd floor, it is just Margiela doesn't feel new anymore. Rei Kawakuba is very good at staying new, even when she repeats herself.

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07-09-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Baron
I guess I'm just taking a narrower view of the concept of innovation than you are. I do think that Project Alabama in particular is a spectacular display of problem-solving. It's one of the most compelling responses to a lot of the issues I raised over in the "fashion problems" thread: sustainability, ethical labor, and local relevance. But a lot of what they do has been done before (albeit often with more pretense and less soul) by the likes of Imitation of Christ.

But in the end, maybe it's the soul that matters. Enough so that I'm willing to make my definition of innovation fuzzy around the edges and stick "arte povera" in the gray area.
I agree with that,actually. I think the whole idea of having a soul in clothing is still probably the most innovative concept in fashion. Despite the idea being around for quite some time amongst primarily the Belgians & the Japanese,I still think don't think many in the industry have responded to such a thing. There is no such thing as anything truly being personal right now.

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07-09-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haruki
IFor instance I'm told that Margiella mens clothes are going to be moved from the directional designer floor (3rd floor in New York) to 4th floor next to Armani, Ermengilda Zegna excetera next season. Really Margiela is way more innovative than many of the designers still on 3rd floor, it is just Margiela doesn't feel new anymore.
I take it you are talking about Barneys? They have Junya Watanabe men's on the fifth floor in CO-OP, so go figure

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07-09-2005
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Oops. I did indeed mean Barneys Faust. You must know your shopping to have figured out I meant Barneys from the few clues I left. Thanks for the Junya Watanabe info. Now I know why I can never find it at the New York Barneys. I thought they just didn't sell Junya Watanabe and I guess I am too snobby to shop at the fifth floor to have ever looked for it there.

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08-09-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haruki
Oops. I did indeed mean Barneys Faust. You must know your shopping to have figured out I meant Barneys from the few clues I left. Thanks for the Junya Watanabe info. Now I know why I can never find it at the New York Barneys. I thought they just didn't sell Junya Watanabe and I guess I am too snobby to shop at the fifth floor to have ever looked for it there.
Yes, you could say I know my shopping. Junya is lumped together with CDG Shirt line on the fifth floor. Needless to say the selection is underwhelming. I have no idea why they have it there, and why they have something like Duckie Brown and Libertine on the 3rd floor. Shouldn't it be the other way around?

It's pretty loopy that they are going to move Margiela to the 4th. Who told you that?

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08-09-2005
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^probaby because Duckie(isn't it?)and Libertine are NY labels and they're just trying to get people a bit more interested in NY indies. That said,perhaps if you spot Julie Gilhart during the shows,you should approach her and find out

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08-09-2005
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Innovation is impossible, unless you are not a homo sapien. Perhaps there is a sliding scale of innovativeness but over time, the ends of the scale will seem closer and closer together. Who here could look at various medieval costumes and point out which were pieces of innovative design and which were ye olde Ralph Lauren? I just wear things I like and try not to think about it too much.

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08-09-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faust
:

It's pretty loopy that they are going to move Margiela to the 4th. Who told you that?

Mr. Faust, my New York City host Mr. Philip Gentleman told me about Margiela moving to the conservative section at Barneys. One of the sales persons told him.

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09-09-2005
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it's true, margiela will be moving to the 4th floor, between the hugo boss and armani. that is according to philip at IF, who has an "intimate" contact in the men's boring floor.

haruki - remember how the first floor smelled like vomit? i heard that it was from philip from IF. apparently he ate an egg salad panini with a bad batch of homemade mayo from clancy's sandwich shop.

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09-09-2005
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regarding the location of the junya watanabe collection on the co-op floor at barney's in new york, i heard it is because of the amount of collaboration projects he is working on. apparently the buyers feel that collabo = co-op as a paradigm, and also because they feel that everyone is sick to death of the bad jeans with motorcycle patches on them. the head buyer is rumored to have mistaken the collection for von dutch clothing and accidentally placed them on the 5th floor! i do not know if there is any truth to this, but that's the story at the water cooler according to philip at IF...

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11-09-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrinceOfCats
Innovation is impossible, unless you are not a homo sapien. Perhaps there is a sliding scale of innovativeness but over time, the ends of the scale will seem closer and closer together. Who here could look at various medieval costumes and point out which were pieces of innovative design and which were ye olde Ralph Lauren? I just wear things I like and try not to think about it too much.
I think we all wear things that we like, but there wouldn't be much point in having any discussion about fashion at all if that was it. I don't understand your comment about innovation being impossible. Leaving aside the question of whether you could uphold that argument on the basis of a narrowly puristic definition of innovation - which of course, again, isn't really the point of this thread - surely that can't be right. We can all come up with "new" things.

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11-09-2005
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I agree with Johnny. PrinceofCats' definition of innovation is really stringent. We have to accept that any human being is going to be influenced by something, someone and that their ideas aren't gonna just pop out of thin air. Innovation nowadays will be taking a different slant on something, altering perceptions or challenging conventions.

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11-09-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny
I don't understand your comment about innovation being impossible. Leaving aside the question of whether you could uphold that argument on the basis of a narrowly puristic definition of innovation - which of course, again, isn't really the point of this thread - surely that can't be right. We can all come up with "new" things.
Not really. You'd have to be highly deranged or completely immoral to come up with something new in a 'narrowly puristic' sense. But you don't feel that that is relevant.

However, in A brief history of fashion, published 2100, who do you reckon will get the longer entry, H&M for pioneering cheap sweat-shop manufacture, or [insert hip designer of choice] for pioneering...what, relevant to many, exactly?

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30-09-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrinceOfCats
However, in A brief history of fashion, published 2100, who do you reckon will get the longer entry, H&M for pioneering cheap sweat-shop manufacture, or [insert hip designer of choice] for pioneering...what, relevant to many, exactly?
A thing can be "relevant to many" without being consumed by many.

Vacuum-tube computers were never widely available, but through the lens of history they are massively relevant to everyone who now uses a computer, calculator, microwave, or any other of thousands of computerized products.

You wouldn't argue that computer innovation was irrelevant until integrated circuits came along, would you?

I'll grant you, most of what gets lauded as "innovation" in the fashion press is largely irrelevant to most people on this planet, but that doesn't mean no one is pursuing something more relevant and purposeful than a change in the height and width of pant cuffs.

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30-09-2005
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innovation is innovation regardless of how the word is used.I get the feeling some people are trying to change the meaning of the word to suit thier argument, it is simply creating something utterly new and original, or using something that exist already in a way that was never done before. in the context of fashion the sad reality is, a lot of what is called in the media "innovation" really is'nt. and often you read a great article about a designer who is regarded as original and innovative and when you see thier work in person you wonder if it's the same person you read about.
i said already, and i say again that there is a real problem existing in fashion, a lot of the new designers are not properly trained, they have no knowledge of cut fit and design, they spend too much time copying vintage garments and following trends, therefore it becomed difficult for them to be innovative.innovation requires research ,the ability to think independently and the skill level to execute new ideas (something that very few new designers have the ability to do)
design in fashion seems to now be dictated by the press and the stylists who work with the designers, who more and more cannot seem to put together a collection by themselves.
this is the reason why we have so much celebrities entering the fashion business, they are invited into the front rows and private worlds of the designers and they see designers hiring ppl to sketch, to make patterns, to scour thrift stores for vintage garments to copy, to sew the samples and stylist to put together the looks for the shows. they now say to themselves "if this is what a designer does, we can hire these same ppl, to do these same things, put our name on the label and call ourselves designers". and as much as i hate it, this is exactly what is happening .
until the hypocrisy that exist in fashion that credits ppl who can hire a publicist to talk a good game about them ceases in fashion and ppl begin to suceed on the merits of thier talents the ppl with the ability to truly innovate in fashion will be left to die in obscurity, Especially in American fashion.

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