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29-06-2010
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good question :p

I have some fragments of answer in mind... For exemple I remember how I could spend time just browsing through pages of my mother's catalogues the likes of La Redoute/3 Suisses and imagine as many stories as possible... not even a story with a plot or anything... just a feeling that tells a story... you can imagine their lives, what they like to do in the morning, how they spend a summer evening, how they would cheer themselves up, what is their way of life... People are inspiring in that way, you can virtually borrow their lives and visit them, just for the pleasure of experience... Clothes unveil fragments of life and may add some taste to the story...


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Last edited by mariemaud; 29-06-2010 at 03:34 AM.
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29-06-2010
  17
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it´s like to define what is number to Math.a hard question but ,why not,essential too.
Fashion are doing (it always did) too much for me than the opposite. i love magazines, the art behind the lens, the conceptual behind the clothes ,make ups,ideas, the balance of all these expressionisms in our societies.
Fashion is generic, a father/mother/educator to each person's own (as existencial m.).you don´t know what born first ,if your art or if the art that you consume and live from the others.in the end the result is a melting pot of life breathing by eyes,ears,hands...

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29-06-2010
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Well this is an example of a very lucid question but it's very difficult to answer. I am enthralled by this industry and all the hardwork behind it. At first I wasn't appreciative of it, but as more months came I learned how to. I just started to love fashion 10 months ago and it feels like I've been loving it forever. I think I got to fashion because of television. At first I was watching some Hollywood talkshow and I remember being fascinated by the clothes they wear on the red carpet. And from that my knowledge evolved. I started watching FashionTV, reading fashion blogs, collecting magazines, and registering to forums like the Fashion Spot. In the future, I hope to be in this industry.

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29-06-2010
  19
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oh....
so many good answers...
i need to take some time to read and absorb them all...

and i want to hear from as MANY people as possible...
it's really amazing and fascinating to read everyone's responses...


personally-
i have a love/hate relationship with fashion- with a capital F...
it's like a drug to me...
and i am totally addicted...
even though it makes me crazy sometimes...
...

more later...


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29-06-2010
  20
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fashion is art. it is also a form of expression and identity, and its just so fun!

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29-06-2010
  21
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I disagree about the above statement .. there was a REALLY cool thread about this topic (Is fashion art?) somewhere in the archives and the conclusion was that it couldnt be because its wearable .. and art isnt utilitary ... clothes are, tho

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29-06-2010
  22
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If you find it, please send me the link

I truly disagree with the statement that fashion could not be art. We definitely have to bring that thread into the In Depth forum.

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29-06-2010
  23
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I feel like I cringe when people say "she loves fashion" or "she's so fashionable" about me, because i don't necessarily see myself that way...
BUT, i do admittedly love fashion
i think the reason i cringe is because i don't think they really "get" how i feel about fashion, and i don't want their perception of me to be that i'm this sort of obsessed shopaholic breathlessly talking about how i love fashion..

i feel like... i'm a connoisseur of fashion in a way...
like, i want to see as much as i can and absorb and appreciate as much as i can
i love discovering those up and coming designers who make beautiful clothes
i love appreciating the talent and innovation that it took to create something..
the ingenuity in the cut of a shirt that makes my waist look even smaller or a pair of pants that make my legs look thinner and longer..
or ingeniously combined prints and textures...

i think there are always so many interesting things going on in fashion...
it's never boring
that's what i LOVE

i also love that it helps me to express myself and my real personality and tastes in a way that may otherwise be hidden
i'm not the most initially outgoing or loquacious person, but i think fashion is a great way for me to express that i can be a little bit of a risk taker, or that i have a good eye and a creative side... and maybe a hint of quirkiness
maybe i get a perverse sort of pleasure out of hearing, "that looks great on you but i could never pull it off"
i don't like to be "safe" all the time.
and fashion is a pretty risk-free way to take a risk if you ask me


Last edited by ChrissyM; 29-06-2010 at 06:10 PM.
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29-06-2010
  24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iluvjeisa View Post
If you find it, please send me the link

I truly disagree with the statement that fashion could not be art. We definitely have to bring that thread into the In Depth forum.
i think that thread may be in Art & Design... I'll see if i can dig it up

*edit - did some digging
i think it must be this thread... which was already moved over to this section of the forum
http://forums.thefashionspot.com/f12...ack-67196.html


Last edited by ChrissyM; 29-06-2010 at 06:19 PM.
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29-06-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrissyM View Post
i think that thread may be in Art & Design... I'll see if i can dig it up

*edit - did some digging
i think it must be this thread... which was already moved over to this section of the forum
http://forums.thefashionspot.com/f12...ack-67196.html
Thanks! Though, I find that to be a slightly different topic...that seems to be art references in fashion. I would argue fashion, and its supplements, can be art without having to emulate a known piece of art. There's got to be a thread on that already....

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29-06-2010
  26
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i think you guys are talking about this thread...

http://forums.thefashionspot.com/f60...sign-3955.html

i've moved it into this forum and updated the title...

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29-06-2010
  27
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kinda Off topic:

Close approximation but the first one Im certain is not and the second one may be but its too "young" (2004) and the title was different ... looking it up with the search tool has proved senseless for me cuz "art" is a 3 letter word and the search tool only will look up from 4 letters on ... (same thing happened when I looked up the end of sex, tho I found it via google, lol)
So softie .. what was the original title?


On topic:

Oh .. and yeah ... i totally get what Chrissy says .. its like when people call you a "fashionista" it gives me chills up and down my spine ... and it may make me sound snotty/snobby but its true! lol

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29-06-2010
  28
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ultra...
it was originally called 'art & fashion design'...and was in D&C...
the one you're thinking of may be in A&D, like chrissy said...

* yeah- and the three letter search thing is for the birds!...
but i did find some other stuff that was interesting and moved it in here...



it's amazing to go back and check out some of those old articles posted and discussions had...
i've just been re-reading some old threads from the D&C forum...
*and thinking how so many of those designers who have old threads are out of business now....
...


JEEBUS!!!...
i MUST love fashion if this is what i spend my time doing, right?!?!...
i DO love fashion...
i just can't help it..........................

EDIT-
i found the thread- fashion/sex/politics..!!!
* it was already in this forum---bette moved it here!...

http://forums.thefashionspot.com/f12...cs-5741-2.html

now back on topic...
....


:p

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Last edited by softgrey; 29-06-2010 at 11:20 PM.
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30-06-2010
  29
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Why I Love (to Photograph) Fashion – Random Musings on Clothes & Pictures
Here's a little essay on that topic... I've written it this March and reworked it last week. A bit theoretical, but maybe some points do interest some of you...
--------------

Why I Love (to Photograph) Fashion – Random Musings on Clothes & Pictures

Thomas Sing

Fashion photography is the staging of a written play whose main parts are lost. A good fashion photograph does not tell a story – it provides a seductive surface of signs that evokes a story in its viewers’ minds.

Fashion as free play

The same is true for fashion as such: fashion isn’t a narrative in itself, it induces multiple narrations of different kinds. Fashion as a sign-surface doesn’t provide any distinct intrinsic meaning, but it is open to fluctuating assets of meaning according to how, where and when it is worn.
Fashion as a free play (I don’t speak about its merely functional aspects here, neither about an exclusively upper-class phenomenon) is neither a substantial nor a ‘lexical’ phenomenon, it is a structural and social one. That is to say it is not working symbolically in the way in which every word of a certain language has a specific meaning that all members of the linguistic community understand; it is on the contrary a loose system of indices where symbolical meaning can be temporarily linked, but never permanently attached. At its heart, fashion is anti-totalitarian, though it can be adapted by totalitarian purposes (remember e.g. how various regimes use fashion to create a rigid and enclosed aesthetics of power).
It is a main principle of fashion and one of its most subversive strengths that it can reverse any usurpation by appropriating the symbols of power and de-symbolizing them into an iconic-indexical play of cuts, colors and forms: the current military shapes that we saw in many of the A/W 2010 collections e.g. do not stand for something anymore as an inflexible code (like an uniform does in the army), but create a self-reflexive aesthetic value that merely causes associations of a certain social or historical field (‘military’) without signifying a particular denotation.

‘Dress’ as a complicity between clothing and body

It could be that the often-stated close relation between fashion, eroticism and death (as analyzed first by poets like Baudelaire and thinkers like Walter Benjamin) comes from this mode of fashion being a ‘zero-sign’ which structurally does not allow any clear signification of lexical meaning. Erotism and death are eruptive and discontinuous spheres in which the formation of symbolical meaning is dissolved into unintelligible vectors of desire, ambiguity and obliteration. Fashion can of course be a way to make these vectors visible on the body – up to their permanent inscription by means of body modifications, tattoos, and so on. And by doing so, fashion is deeply human: a singular enigmatic statement against all systematical knowledge. Every dress is one of a kind. Because a ‘dress’ is the complicity between clothing and body. And as serial as clothing may be – the body always is unique.

I think to argue in a (post-)postmodern society that fashion was simply a capitalist vehicle of reification is completely beside the point of such a complex phenomenon of contemporary culture. Fashion today is the self-conscious quotation of reification; it is an ironical play with commodity culture far more than a dumb assimilation to it.

Deeply superficial

Being a ‘fashion-victim’ thus would not mean to surrender to the bewitching forces of an all-devouring capitalism running at idle; it would just mean a thoroughly modern refusal to the cultural dictate of being a well-defined subject with a stable and unchanging substance. Fashion is a constant flux, a never ending re-invention of the self through the means of a potentially infinite alteration, combination and re-combination of surfaces that have no meaning in themselves but produce volatile and fragile associations of meaning exactly because they are put together to an actual dress. A free play of forces without a distinct goal other than creating the “cocktail effect” (Omar Calabrese) of style that makes the impact of a ’stylish’ or ‘fashionable’ dress much more than the sum of its single pieces of clothing.

Frankly said, I don’t understand photographers who aim to portrait people ‘like they really are’. It’s simply impossible for a two-dimensional medium like a photograph (that’s punctual and frozen in relation to time and space) to depict any reality even approximately adequately; – still the most ‘documentary’ picture is determined by a far too large variety of codes and selectional decisions on the part of the photographer and his camera to give a trustworthy evidence of ‘the real’. Today every child knows that images are digitally manipulated, and contemporary photography also self-reflects this fact in many creative ways (just think of Alison Jackson’s ‘celebrity’ portraits…). A photography does not make a decisive statement on what it is depicting. It’s making a supposition on what it could be.

This meta-discourse on the real is also always evident when it comes to photograph fashion. Even the most ‘provocative’ fashion pictures (think of Jürgen Teller, Oliviero Toscani or Terry Richardson) do not make a final statement. Toscani’s Benetton ads or Teller’s lipstick-Versace-heart shocked the public not because they had been ‘provocative’ per se, but because they had been taken for depictions of a reality that they never were and never could be. Taking into account that provocative potential of an image, it’s clear that it deals with reality; but it’s the socially coded reality of the viewer where the shock takes place, not the medially coded virtual reality of the image. The image always remains silent.

The razor blade within the picture

A good fashion photograph provides nothing than a surface structure that’s open to phantasies, stories and imaginations, but also to fears, prejudices and insecurities. This surface can be well-styled (e.g. in mainstream commercials), or it can be rough and full of trip wires. Of course the reality effect that is created when I look at an image and feel touched (no matter if positively or negatively) is starting on the side of the image – but it is solely my own reality that I feel if it ‘hits’ me. A bit like music or a poem: it gives you some hints, but it has to be felt and interpreted. And there’s never just one interpretation, one truth.
That’s what distinguishes literature and art from an user manual or a propaganda sheet, and it’s what draws the distinction of Teller and Toscani from simple porn; – of course you can get off to some pictures of Terry Richardson while other ones make you want to throw up, but his imagery can never be reduced to such a plain functionalization. It’s the implicit irony even in his most explicit photographs that make them a multi-directional surface on which any one-directional interpretation inevitably has to slide and fall. Every good picture has at least one element that can be substituted by a razor blade. (And that’s the point where the ‘real’ slips back into the picture… Roland Barthes knew that when he spoke of the ‘punctum’, and Jean Baudrillard was searching for it in his own photographs… and both were aware of the fact that this ‘reality effect’ was the only thing in a picture that cannot be planned or ’styled’.)

Fashion & fetish

Eroticism, desire, seduction and sexuality are surely parts of the ‘fashion drive’, and their influence on it cannot be valuated highly enough. High fashion and the sometimes exaggerated behaviors connected to it are often compared to fetishism; ‘commodity fetishism’ is a widely used term in sociology and cultural studies since Marx, Benjamin & Co., and I think we cannot deny there’s something true about it. But it is more than that. A ‘fetish’, by definition, is always fully determined: it is a (e.g. sexually charged) object that unambiguously stands for something, and this one-way-conjunction can be analyzed and named. Fetishism’s main difference to fashion however lies in the fact that fashion’s conjunctions are ‘open‘; actually, fashion brings no fixed conjunctions with itself, more a ‘connectibility’ which can develop associations in different and unpredictable directions, with its indices being invertible in a way that the whole system will be influenced and possibly even re-written: Aimee Mullins’ carved artificial legs in McQueen’s SS 1999 show for example are – needless to say – not some strange mutilation- or prosthesis-fetish (as a weird porn-movie would perhaps determine them); they are high-fashion items that provoke discussions on aesthetics, on fashion’s relation to the body, and so on. And it’s the images that make fashion’s communicative drafts public and effective.

An infinite wardrobe

Discourses on multiple layers (theoretical, sociological, historical, narrative, emotional, of course also functional and sexual) – that’s what fashion at its best accomplishes. And that’s what I have in mind when I shoot fashion pictures. Of course photographing fashion is a cool job and lots of fun, but more than that for me it’s the challenge of transposing a fragile system of textile signs that lives through its organic relation to time, space and the body into that fascinating two-dimensional photographic medium without obtruding it a meaning that’s cropping away the open (and at the end: ‘modern’ and ‘democratic’) communication value that it has when it’s worn.

Fashion provides the paradigm, photography the discourse. Or, simply but true: fashion is a huge wardrobe, pull out some pieces and suggest with your cam what they could mean…

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30-06-2010
  30
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Why do I love fashion?

It's hard to think of something that is less distant from my actual being than clothing. People are not born with clothing on, but pretty much the instant we come out of our mother's womb we are wrapped in clothes.

It's on rare occasions that we undress and most people feel more comfortable dressed, than undressed. Actually the only reasons for undressing are washing and sex.

Clothing is a pretty decisive element of our appearance. We use it to protect ourselves against the elements, to cover up our nudity or protect ourselves from injury.

Fashion goes a bit further. We use it to develop our personal 'brand', to express our individuality, to show that we belong to a certain group, to convey messages, to advertise corporate identity, to show off our wealth and status, to complement our bodily features, to show, to disguise, to attract and distract...

What is there not to love of such an intricate phenomenon, that influences us at so many levels. Socially we are driven by prejudice and guess what? We can influence the way people think of us, by choosing the right clothing. Our clothes can even influence our self-conciousness and self-awareness. Clothing can make the difference in feeling happy or sad, bold or shy, strong or sensitive.

What I like most of fashion is that it appeals to my sense of aesthetics. Fashion can be quite beautiful and enjoyable. It has an ability to make people look their best, when applied with consideration. Fashion is a way of inventing yourself in numerous ways, over and over again...

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