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21-02-2008
  1
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Hanne's Avatar
 
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Hotlinking - should we change the rules?
Speed or Longevity ?

What matters the most to you ?

The speed with which new pictures from runway shows appear on tFS
or
the ability to use tFS as an picture archive, where you can find working picture (not red X's) years after a rare picture was initially posted?

I'd like to stress that hotlinking images from sites that do not change their codes, is not the issue here.

I'm bringing the issue here, because of the amount of pictures posted during fashion week.

Many of the pictures posted are from sources such as Getty, wireimage, yahoo news, nymag.com etc.. sites where a hotlinked picture WILL eventually turn into red X.

Should tFS enforce that pictures from sites such as Getty, yahoo news need to be uploaded rather than hotlinked if posted in the fashion show threads ?

Please note that I'm not advocating that we go as far as forbidding hotlinking all together, because that would not be feasible, having to check every image for its code.

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21-02-2008
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Longetivity is important to me. But at the same time, I usually don't frequent a designer/collection thread that much after fashion week has been over. So I guess, longevity is more important to me in SC than D&C.

But it really doesn't take that long to upload a pic - there are some sites these days, such as imageshack.us that allow you upload so quickly! All you have to do is enter the URL, you don't have to save it to your computer or anything.

Or there's even an option on firefox to install an imageshack plugin/toolbar thing. So all you have to do is right-click on a photo and select upload. E.g




BTW, another site that picture links change is style.it (not to a red x, rather to a different pic altogether).

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21-02-2008
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^ I've been trying to stress the Style.it issue as well. The pictures generally change within a couple of weeks, yet many people are still hotlinking from it.

I wasn't aware that nymag.com deletes the images. I'll have to keep that in mind for next fashion week.

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23-02-2008
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Quote:
Should tFS enforce that pictures from sites such as Getty, yahoo news need to be uploaded rather than hotlinked if posted in the fashion show threads ?

Please note that I'm not advocating that we go as far as forbidding hotlinking all together, because that would not be feasible, having to check every image for its code.
Admin needs to keep in mind that hotlinking is illegal and sites can block tFS completely as ImageShack did a few months ago.

Also, many of the sites being linked from like Getty and WireImages are membership only sites, so posting their images here could also be considered content theft. "Crediting your sources" does not avoid this legal tangle.

Quote:
But it really doesn't take that long to upload a pic - there are some sites these days, such as imageshack.us that allow you upload so quickly! All you have to do is enter the URL, you don't have to save it to your computer or anything.
That's called 'transloading' and I've seen a few image hosts offer it including Photobucket, Imageshack, PicTiger and others.

I'm not sure what the sever capacity is here for members' Attachments, but maybe that's something the new ownership can address, possibly even blocking Hotlinking altogether at the server level (no need for Mods to review links) and allow ONLY Attachments. All they would have to do is disallow the IMG tag altogether, very simple to do.

That would also solve the overly large image issue.

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23-02-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Echoes View Post
Also, many of the sites being linked from like Getty and WireImages are membership only sites, so posting their images here could also be considered content theft. "Crediting your sources" does not avoid this legal tangle.
I've looked on the Getty website and couldn't find any clear information on this, but I don't see the problem with posting their images here.

When you buy an image or get a subscription to Getty, you're basically buying a license to it. Shouldn't you be able to post that image elsewhere, since you purchased it? Many news sources do so, although I would imagine they get specific permission first.

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23-02-2008
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Seanut ... If you buy the image, there are specific limitations as to how and where you may use the image. They have different rates for different uses. Very, very complcated.

Echoes ... Management and their attorneys are aware of the issues concerning copyright laws. Our terms and conditions (wrtten by their attorneys, I beleive) pretty much cover tFS in the copyright matter, as I understand it. And that is why we immediately remove any specified images if the legal copyright holder instructs us to (they must bring proof that they are the actual copyright holder, of course). We ask our members to credit all images merely as a courtesy and to make the information accessible.

But the issue here is which the members prefer .... hotlinking so pics can go up fast (important during fashion weeks) but loosing the images shortly thereafter .... or hosting them thus slowing down the influx of new images being posted but they will stay up longer as a resource.

And I like your thinking about attachements, Echoes ... but not being technical at all I have no idea if it's even feasable. It's something that management and their tech support should look at. I think I'll direct their attention to this as food for thought after we gather the general consensus about how the membership feels about this issue.

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23-02-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Echoes View Post
Admin needs to keep in mind that hotlinking is illegal and sites can block tFS completely as ImageShack did a few months ago.
Dont worry, admin is aware..

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23-02-2008
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are the red X's in alot of earlier posts on some thread hotlinking ? [please pardon me, i'm not a savvy internet member , like most here]

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23-02-2008
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It can be a server error, but for the most part its hotlinking.

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23-02-2008
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also another issue is that other sites could turn the images into porn or "do not steal my bandwidth" images as well....

i see this on ebay all the time.

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23-02-2008
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Quote:
Admin needs to keep in mind that hotlinking is illegal and sites can block tFS completely as ImageShack did a few months ago.
Are you saying ImageShack had a problem with people hotlinking? Or are you just using it as an example of a site that blocked images? The whole POINT of ImageShack and other upload sites, is that you can hotlink to the image you upload on their server.

And that's what we should be enforcing - uploading to sites such as ImageShack, ImageVenue, Photobucket, tinypic, etc.

Quote:
I'm not sure what the sever capacity is here for members' Attachments, but maybe that's something the new ownership can address, possibly even blocking Hotlinking altogether at the server level (no need for Mods to review links) and allow ONLY Attachments. All they would have to do is disallow the IMG tag altogether, very simple to do.

That would also solve the overly large image issue.
You can only upload so many to tFS, you have to purchase an account upgrade if you want more space - and if people don't want to do that it means that people would continually be deleting their attachments to make more room, which would give us the exact same problem we're trying to fix - dead images.

Also, the fact that many post HQ images, uploading those to tFS, would take up one's allocated space very quickly.

Another consequence to attachments-only would be that people who aren't members or logged in, won't be able to see any of the attachments. I don't know how exclusive tFS aims to be, but IMO that's too exclusive.

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Last edited by *Bianca*; 23-02-2008 at 05:12 PM.
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23-02-2008
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ImageShack blocked us of because of too much nudity posted here via them

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24-02-2008
  13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *Bianca* View Post
Are you saying ImageShack had a problem with people hotlinking? Or are you just using it as an example of a site that blocked images? The whole POINT of ImageShack and other upload sites, is that you can hotlink to the image you upload on their server.

And that's what we should be enforcing - uploading to sites such as ImageShack, ImageVenue, Photobucket, tinypic, etc.
I was using IS as an example that sites can block access to tFs quite easily. As Mr Dale noted, IS blocked tFs access due to violations of their site policy. Many websites have policies against hotlinking, so any of them could block tFs at any time.



Quote:
Originally Posted by *Bianca* View Post
You can only upload so many to tFS, you have to purchase an account upgrade if you want more space - and if people don't want to do that it means that people would continually be deleting their attachments to make more room, which would give us the exact same problem we're trying to fix - dead images.

Also, the fact that many post HQ images, uploading those to tFS, would take up one's allocated space very quickly.

Another consequence to attachments-only would be that people who aren't members or logged in, won't be able to see any of the attachments. I don't know how exclusive tFS aims to be, but IMO that's too exclusive.
Embedding HQ images is one of the big problems, their file sizes are HUGE, some in excess of 1Mb. They should not be embedded directly in posts. They should be hosted elsewhere and a thumbnail or link provided so someone visiting the page can decide if they want to see the full version or not. Some threads are so full of HQ images that it makes the pages very slow to load even on high speed connections.



As to one of the main questions regarding 'speed' of posting images after a show, I don't see how it would take that much longer to transload images to a hosting site before posting here, maybe a few seconds.

But then there is another issue. I know of several people that browse the hosting sites just to see what's been posted recently. Once an image is on a hosting site, it's open to the public that might not otherwise visit fashion type sites which some photographers, designers, models, etc. might not approve of. They are of course subject to being taken down if asked, which could still leave us with "red x's" or dead links.

So that brings us back to the possibility of increased storage space for attachments. Then the images would effectively be hosted by tFs and there would be a much lesser possibility of dead links. I believe the tFs attachment tool already has transloading capabilities, so there would be little if any delay in getting images posted here after shows.

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24-02-2008
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Quote:
Embedding HQ images is one of the big problems, their file sizes are HUGE, some in excess of 1Mb. They should not be embedded directly in posts. They should be hosted elsewhere and a thumbnail or link provided so someone visiting the page can decide if they want to see the full version or not. Some threads are so full of HQ images that it makes the pages very slow to load even on high speed connections.
I was talking about HQs posted as thumbnails (as most people that post HQs do)

With just attachments, there would be no choice but to upload a huge file to tFS since one wouldn't be able to post just as a thumbnail, which as I said earlier, would cause their space to run out very quickly and more dead links, which is what we're trying to avoid.

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Last edited by *Bianca*; 24-02-2008 at 02:39 AM.
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24-02-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucy92 View Post
also another issue is that other sites could turn the images into porn or "do not steal my bandwidth" images as well....
I see this on other websites all the time, and occasionally on tFS as well. That's why I recommend uploading to ImageShack or another image host when in doubt of hotlinking. It's better than the alternative in this instance!

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