[Melisande]

I've been a Lancome sunscreen person for years. But since it's not available in France (all about "bronzage" here ), I'm looking at Shiseido.
Any thoughts about the one in the white tube? I think it's called Urban Environment or something...part of The Skincare line maybe.

I hear Anessa is more for the beach. I want something with high SPF but that can double as a primer to wear under makeup.

[JillianS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rayoflight But I'm kinda liking Burnout sunscreens at the moment, it's physical sunscreen (zinc oxide), but isn't greasy/shiny or too drying. It can be a bit white, but under makeup it's not visible at all. They are cheaper than Shiseido anyway, like $18 on their homepage for a large tube.

My derm-doctor says that physical sunblock is the best way to go. I'll have to check this brand out.

[JillianS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melisande I've been a Lancome sunscreen person for years. But since it's not available in France (all about "bronzage" here ), I'm looking at Shiseido. Any thoughts about the one in the white tube? I think it's called Urban Environment or something...part of The Skincare line maybe. I hear Anessa is more for the beach. I want something with high SPF but that can double as a primer to wear under makeup.

I use this one under my make-up and it holds up just fine. Not greasy at all.
http://www.sephora.com/browse/produc...egoryId=C16011

[imonabhaute]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JillianS I use this one under my make-up and it holds up just fine. Not greasy at all. http://www.sephora.com/browse/produc...egoryId=C16011

I use a similar one under makeup daily:

http://www.sephora.com/browse/produc...ategoryId=5337

[rayoflight]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cristina777 Rayoflight, which Anessa sunscreens do you recommend? All? Have you (or anyone else here in the forum) tried the Allie's sunscreens newest versions? If so, are they good?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melisande I've been a Lancome sunscreen person for years. But since it's not available in France (all about "bronzage" here ), I'm looking at Shiseido. Any thoughts about the one in the white tube? I think it's called Urban Environment or something...part of The Skincare line maybe. I hear Anessa is more for the beach. I want something with high SPF but that can double as a primer to wear under makeup.

I tried a couple before they reformulated (they do that like once a year), those UV Perfect and Perfect Smooth sunscreens (or something similar, they all had 'perfect' in the name and a metallic bottle ), they are really nice, almost like a make up primer, which can be heavy, but the SPF 50/PA+++ versions are meant for beach mostly, so they are quite water-resistant and need a good cleanser to get them off completely (like an oil cleanser or double cleansing, both popular in Asia). I don't think either of them are good for dry skin, could be way too dry and uncomfortable. I think they have a white bottle with a sunscreen more suited for daily use which was either SPF 36 or 46 or some odd number.
Anyhow the thing about the white Shiseido Urban suncreens was that they had Avobenzone listed as only UVA filter and I don't like that one particularity, the Tinosorbs and Uvinuls in Anessa and zinc in the blue Shiseido bottles/tubes are more reliable (meaning they don't get in-activated by UV rays like Avobenzone does).
They are kinda expensive though, and only seem to come in small 60 ml bottles, same as the Lancome fluid which is like 50 ml, so the cost runs quite high with daily use. In that regard the full zinc sunscreen like the Burnout is cheaper 'cause it comes in twice as large tube and costs ~50% less.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JillianS My derm-doctor says that physical sunblock is the best way to go. I'll have to check this brand out.

Yea, they are great, but not always perfect. Things that suck about them are that the high zinc % tends to be a bit drying and they look white-ish on skin in one way or another (worst is when they a just slightly blue-ish, makes skin look a bit dead) because they form a physical layer between skin and UV rays. Some of them cause skin to itch/sting as well it's the mineral particle that do that.

It's always some gripe with those sunscreens in one aspect or another.

Two more sunscreens that are quite good, both have zinc in them:
http://www.chanel.com/en_US/fragranc...SSENTIEL-89583
https://www2.devita.net/store/home.php?cat=290 (sometimes people say they get tan with Devita, so could be that it's not suited for places with higher UV intensity)

In the end it boils down to finding one sunscreen that works for individual skin. Some people rave about Badger or Purple Prairie sunscreens because they are natural and all, but I find they are incredibly oily and make skin look blue/white. Absolutely ghastly. Like bad clown makeup. Another fail for me was Marie Veronique Face Screens that are like a foundation, but suck every bit of moisture from skin, to the point where I got lines from dehydration and they turned out to be irritating due to all the oils and 500 plant extracts and essential oils in there - major zit producers. So just because it's made from organic/natural stuff and is better for environment doesn't mean it's even remotely skin compatible.

[JillianS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rayoflight In the end it boils down to finding one sunscreen that works for individual skin.

So true!
I also have different sunscreens for different occasions. If it's just daily use, I use a sunscreen that is more agreeable with my make-up and such.
If I know I'm going to be outdoors all day long, I forgo my vanity and use the heavy duty zinc sunblock. And of course, wear a big hat. I live in a climate that my genetic background didn't account for. I should be somewhere much farther north...with lots of cloudy days

Thank you so much for all of the information. Your trial and error will be very useful when I'm shopping for my sun-protection arsenal this summer.

[Melisande]

Thanks rayoflight and Jillian, karma! Today I looked at the blue Anessa one and Urban sunscreen at Printemps Beauté...unfortunately the blue one was clearly too drying for my skin and leaves a very white matte cast...sort of like gesso for the skin and felt dry and puckered upon application...the urban one seemed moist though, will wait to get samples.

[rayoflight]

You have to try some 20 different sunscreens to find a couple decent ones...

Maybe La Roche Posay Melt-in cream works better for you? La Roche have finally come to senses and formulated a sunscreen using Tinosorb S and have finally left out octocrylene (and couple other 3rd tier filters) and lowered the avobenzone %, so it's their most effective sunscreen to date, as far as UVA protection goes and lacks most of the unstable and potentially estrogen mimicking chemical filters. (I'm keeping fingers crossed they upgrade Extreme Fluid range soon as well, as it still sucks )

This one, comes in 3 versions, scented, unscented and tinted: Anthelios XL SPF 50+ Melt-in Cream by La Roche Posay

Skinceuticals are very decent as well Imo, lightweight, non-sticky and non-greasy (somewhat matte even), don't stain clothes or look like full-on clown/geisha makeup, but they are a bit white on skin. A bit less than Shiseido Very High Protection, but Skinceuticals are harder to obtain, at least where I live.

Skinceuticals | Physical Fusion UV Defense SPF 50 (is a mystery one that I haven't tried yet, I have no idea how they get the SPF and PPD so high with those filters... )

Skinceuticals | Ultimate UV Defense SPF 30

Skinceuticals | Physical UV Defense SPF 30

The Physical and Ultimate Defense ones don't appeal to everyone though, since they are filled with silicones, waxes and parabens, but at least Skinceuticals is honest about the kinds of filters they use and they specify theirs are encapsulated which is always a huge plus.

As said, finding a perfect sunscreen is huge pain in the bum, but so worth the hassle.

[Melisande]

I know, it's so worth the hassle!!

Thanks so much rayoflight, your wealth of knowlege is greatly appreciated.

The La Roche Posay is great, and exactly what I've been using on a daily basis when I don't wear much makeup. It's moisturising, doesn't break me out or dry me out, safe, not too white, inexpensive. Except that it's too greasy under makeup and I still seem to get a little tan...

If I'm not hallucinating I think I've seen Skinceuticals around so I'll definitely go check it out. Thanks!

I remember liking a Korres one my sister had a few years ago too, but don't remember much. I should try it again.

[candeo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rayoflight Skinceuticals | Physical Fusion UV Defense SPF 50 (is a mystery one that I haven't tried yet, I have no idea how they get the SPF and PPD so high with those filters... )

I've been put off trying this as it's got a PPD of 21, but the high SPF (over what you'd expect from the Zinc & TiDi) must be boosted from the artermia extract which looks like a rather nice ingredient. Allegedly, according to the original research, "an extract from the plankton, Artemia salina protects DNA from UV damage and decreases the UV-induced inflammatory cytokines, suggesting a way to help sunscreens protect skin from UV damage".

Some more info:

http://translate.googleusercontent.c..._f09wzS5qOnb8Q

...and it's the link with Artemia extract boosting HSP70 which supposedly makes this such an interesting ingredient in protecting skin from UV damage whilst on retinoids (Retin-A, retinol etc) as retinoid therapy apparently depletes this which is one of the reasons skin becomes so sun-sensitive whilst on it (mmm, can't post that link, unfortunately)...

Still, I need a higher PDD and that's that

As well as a UV booster, artemia extract is used as an all-round anti-aging ingredient by La Mer, Lancome, Murad...

[JillianS]

I have never personally used Skinceuticals, but if it's worth anything to anyone, it is one of the brands my dermatologist uses. So, it must do some good.
He also recommends Tizo which I sometimes use as a physical block:
http://solarprotectionformula.com/th...n_products.php

[candeo]

Oh, I'm sure it does a lot of good - Skinceuticals has a good range of stuff in general.

I'm probably just rather high maintenance when it comes to sunscreen: pale skin, tans/freckles easily and like to swim outside almost every day here in australia, land of the scariest sun in the world

And terrified even of the thought of sun aging me.

For me, going up from a PPD of 20 to 30+ feels important even though in % protection terms I guess not so much difference...Tinosorb works really well for me...so I'll try the Anthelios Melt-in cream

[rayoflight]

Quote:

Originally Posted by candeo I've been put off trying this as it's got a PPD of 21, but the high SPF (over what you'd expect from the Zinc & TiDi) must be boosted from the artermia extract which looks like a rather nice ingredient. Allegedly, according to the original research, "an extract from the plankton, Artemia salina protects DNA from UV damage and decreases the UV-induced inflammatory cytokines, suggesting a way to help sunscreens protect skin from UV damage". Some more info: http://translate.googleusercontent.c..._f09wzS5qOnb8Q ...and it's the link with Artemia extract boosting HSP70 which supposedly makes this such an interesting ingredient in protecting skin from UV damage whilst on retinoids (Retin-A, retinol etc) as retinoid therapy apparently depletes this which is one of the reasons skin becomes so sun-sensitive whilst on it (mmm, can't post that link, unfortunately)... Still, I need a higher PDD and that's that As well as a UV booster, artemia extract is used as an all-round anti-aging ingredient by La Mer, Lancome, Murad...

Maybe, I just don't know if having the HSP to protect skin actually increases the UV absorption/protection (sounds like their CE Ferulic "phoprotection" that isn't actual UV protection, except for what the 0.5% of ferulic (a relative of cinnamic acid) can absorb in UVB spectrum), I mean, other extracts/actives allegedly increase HSP production in skin, like white willow leaf or teprenone, never heard of them boosting UV filters. I wish I could get my hands on a monograph on the actual UV protective properties on this plankton.
But if Skinceauticals says it does work and they can prove that with the SPF/PPD then there *must* be something to it, they already threw the Artemia in their Sheer Physical Defense as well and it has similar filters to Physical Fusion.

[The_Ida]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JillianS My derm-doctor says that physical sunblock is the best way to go. I'll have to check this brand out.

Mine says the opposite, but I guess it depends on who you ask.

I'm back to Riemann's P20. Have been using it for more than 20 years. I guess I should just stick with it. It appears to be working just fine...I still don't have a wrinkle. I'm trying to get a frown line though, it will make me look much more doctor-ish next year during clinic duty

[rayoflight]

What some derms say about sunscreens is kinda weird sometimes though. There is this one doctor with a youtube blog that maintains that sunscreen has to go on skin first and then serums, moisturizers etc. should be applied on top. Same one also said that the measly filters in daily moisturizers are enough to protect skin... Another one thinks that it's beneficial to use sunscreen at night as well to 'build up protection'...
I rather stick with what cosmetic dermatologists say since they are most skin care oriented and know them inside out, like Leslie Baumann or really, really pretty derms with decades of hands-on experience like Cynthia Bailey (there was a link to her blog a couple posts above).


I'm kinda curious about Riemann's P20, what filters are in that one? I tried to find it in drug stores and pharmacies, but they haven't even heard of it and the couple online places that carry it don't have ingredients.