A Materialistic Society?

[gius]

did anyone else watch the youtube video laboheme just posted? any comments? that idea of ego eckhart is talking about... it makes me think of some threads at the forum, like people saying how much they need something or a new look or how much they buy but the buying just never stops... etc.

[MUXU]

ego...yes eckhart explained parts of what ego is but there are still some aspects i can't quite get.

but...same old words. don't let your possessions own you, you own your possessions.
so...i guess when someone says how much they need or want something, maybe sub-conciously they need or want it because without it, others will not know who they are or even they themselves don't know who they are. i guess this is what being materialistic is about. not really about buying or owning a 'thing', but identifying one self with a 'thing' or 'things' as part of who they are. or expecting to find who they are in a 'thing'

it's nice to occasionally buy a piece of garment that you think is truly beautiful and that you enjoy the time while you wear it. there is nothing wrong with that.
with the average income from a working person, he or she should be able to afford one good piece designed by a creative mind (aka a fashion designer) once in a while. but i guess the idea or fear that we are getting fed by from the media or some controlling authority saying if we don't buy the latest trendy piece, we loose our status as fashionable people in society is...meh
so people resort to having many pieces from mid-chain stores that have garments come as fast as they go.
it's this fear...

[pucci_mama]

This is such an interesting topic...

I will have to read though it, before coming back.....

[lollicandy]

Wow! I read all 23 pages in this thread in one go. Such a shame some members who posted no longer are here, I would have liked to hear more from FrugalSquirrel (spelling?) too.

I have been really struggling with this lately. I think I've gotten over the first step, denial! And am now pondering what action to take with regards to my own personal habits. The proliferation of Polyvore, (with links to buy the items and prices), personal style blogs, and chictopia offering "prizes" if you get enough chic points or whatever...I find it slightly repugnant now. It not only encourages mass consumption but enables it too. To the point where you can go from seeing an item to buying it in just a few seconds! No windowshopping and contemplating required. And I'm not crazy or a hypocrite, I freely admit that I used to buy things because I saw a lot of other people having it, but now that I'm slightly older I think I am mostly immune to it although I do stumble here and there.

I think sometime back I fell into that vacuum of accumulating "stuff" to while away time or get my mind off whatever problems I was having and one day I realized my room was filled! I mean, literally of just "stuff." I could barely walk around in it. There was an Oprah episode (I can't stand her but I couldn't help watch this episode) about "hoarders." And an Intervention episode about a woman who is a compulsive shopper. They actually really frightened me, because it made me think am I like that? Which was good, because it made me reflect and think about how much I accumulate things. And now I feel like I have really changed the way I think about why I buy things and the difference between wanting and needing (which doesn't make me perfect, just that I have noticed a huge difference in my habits before and after). I started out small with toiletries, trying to scale back on all the different lotions and potions to fix everything and ended up with 1 bottle of castile soap for almost everything And it made me realize maybe I can keep going with bigger things (clothing, food etc.) I still have a lot of thinking to do and action to take, but I find my life just that little bit easier.

I guess I don't really have anything new to add, but everyone made such great points so thank you for all the enlightening discussion

[sojou]

I have that ^ exact same hoarding problem. My room is overflowing. Apart from when I need to get changed etc I avoid my room because it makes me feel so guilty. But then I still go out and buy more stuff...yet I always seem to rotate the same clothes/makeup so I'm hoarding all these new things that I think I'm going to wear/use one day. I've been mustering up the courage to fix up on this front and this thread has given me some inspiration


.

[fashionknows]

Wow! It's so interesting to read everyone's opinions about our world. I think that as long as you're comfortable with who you are and in control of what you spend, you don't really have to become materialistic and like some of you, I don't think it's a bad thing. It's human nature and we all want to belong to some type of association.

[fashionista-ta]

^ There's more to life than stuff, though, and it's the really important things

MUXU, if you have any questions, please say so, and maybe we can clear them up here I myself was confused about "ego" for many years & I think I've actually got it now.

I quite like Oprah myself ... she does have her moments, but when you get right down to it, I can't think of anyone who does what she does in the world today (or yesterday, come to think of it). And it's not just in the West, it's all over the world that people are listening. Gayle was traveling in the Middle East recently & was mobbed with "Is Oprah here?!" I don't watch her show since I don't watch TV, but I subscribe to the magazine and I get her XM channel. As far as I can tell, it's better than the show (at least to me).

[gius]

I rewatched that Eckhart+Oprah vid ^^

Another word I'd use for when he says "identifying" with (something)
would be attachment

ie. It is okay to have likes and dislikes and opinions and thoughts
but make sure you don't get 'attached' to it

I do remember some times ago identifying with certain material things, and I found myself not liking that thing anymore. In that case I had to 'change' my views... I guess it's important to remain flexible

--

I'd like to ask about something else though
for example you don't exactly like crowds so you don't always go to parties, social functions
Is it ego saying you dont want to go?
or is it something part of the real you?
If I 'make' myself go, I do end up hating it/feeling lousy. Is that ego though?
It's easy with material things, but like the woman who was known for being beautiful in the video and is now old and has a hard time letting go, it's harder to analyse these non-material situations

[lesypersound]

More on consumerism from Tolle on Oprah.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=vKerJp8k32M

(Part 8 of the originally posted youtube on pg22--Re:a shopaholic mom)

I really like the suggestion that people go out and appreciate nature and don't pick flowers or take physical things away from the environment -- deny that compulsion to acquire things you think are pretty or of value but have no real purpose for you to take home w/ you. I liked this example of flowers because it's less obvious than things you can buy in a store...

And later on in the video the point is made that when people are concerned w/ placing their understanding of themselves among people that they meet or know of (celebs) it's always the Ego at work (YOU as inferior v. superior, wealthier v. poorer, better dressed v. less stylish, more articulate v. less articulate, authentic v. inauthentic, more spiritual v. less spiritual, exceptional v. mediocre).



guis, i think the example you're asking about isn't Ego... why must you force yourself to do anything? In the video above a question was brought up on whether correcting bad habits is just another form of Ego at work (e.g. still assigning importance but this time a negative one in need of a solution)--Tolle's answer is that there shouldn't be a need to feel forced to correct bad habits because they ought to fall away once you stop giving them the false importance you assign to them in the first place (at least that's how i interpreted what he said, ha).
SO, I think the consideration of forcing yourself to go to a party you don't want to attend = Ego... but if you're neurotic about crowds or make blanket statements about all get-togethers and incorporate that into your identity then that'd be Ego too.

[fashionista-ta]

Originally Posted by gius

I rewatched that Eckhart+Oprah vid ^^

Another word I'd use for when he says "identifying" with (something)
would be attachment

ie. It is okay to have likes and dislikes and opinions and thoughts
but make sure you don't get 'attached' to it

I do remember some times ago identifying with certain material things, and I found myself not liking that thing anymore. In that case I had to 'change' my views... I guess it's important to remain flexible

--

I'd like to ask about something else though
for example you don't exactly like crowds so you don't always go to parties, social functions
Is it ego saying you dont want to go?
or is it something part of the real you?
If I 'make' myself go, I do end up hating it/feeling lousy. Is that ego though?
It's easy with material things, but like the woman who was known for being beautiful in the video and is now old and has a hard time letting go, it's harder to analyse these non-material situations

Yes, you can tell Tolle is very influenced by Buddhism (among other things), and the concept of attachment is very important there. The idea is to avoid suffering by avoiding attachment to "me, my, and mine." Rather easier said than done

In answer to your question, I would say you're an introvert and that's why you feel that way. I see that as part of your soul's mission in this life, and really nothing to do with the ego. I'm an introvert too, and I had this very strict fundamentalist upbringing. When I'd go to a party or a bar, I'd come home feeling so lousy, and think that I must have done something wrong All it is, is that the energy has been sucked out of you by the crowd, and you need to recharge your batteries by being alone. I find it easier to socialize with a small group. I never understood bars until I found out 75% of the population are extroverts

[GasolineRainbow]

I just discovered this interesting thread, but I must have a read-through before I contribute.

Fashionista-ta, so true about introverts, of not feeling the "right" feelings in many social situations. And then if you buy into some aspects of Jung/Briggs-Myer personality theories, there are certain types of introverts that are even rarer, and thus have that much more difficulty in the interpersonal realm. I find those personality theories very flawed, but I concede with some basic ideas. If I were to fully believe in them, apparently less than 2% of the population has my personality type. No wonder I feel like no one understands me!

[suan]

I don't have too much to say. all so true

[fashionista-ta]

Originally Posted by GasolineRainbow

I just discovered this interesting thread, but I must have a read-through before I contribute.

Fashionista-ta, so true about introverts, of not feeling the "right" feelings in many social situations. And then if you buy into some aspects of Jung/Briggs-Myer personality theories, there are certain types of introverts that are even rarer, and thus have that much more difficulty in the interpersonal realm. I find those personality theories very flawed, but I concede with some basic ideas. If I were to fully believe in them, apparently less than 2% of the population has my personality type. No wonder I feel like no one understands me!

I hear you I'm an INTJ, which I believe is about that percentage of the population. There are also far fewer female than male NTs, which also contributes to the feeling ...

All models are just models, but for me, Myers-Briggs is one of about 4 that I find helpful ... the others being astrology, a book called "The Instruction," aka (per me) Myers-Briggs for the soul (though it is rather challenging to analyze on your own), and the Enneagram. I'm not very into the Enneagram, but I have this book that has a chart that correlates Myers-Briggs & the Enneagram, and I found that quite interesting ...

Btw. One of the things that's most interesting/helpful about the Instruction model is that it allows for internal conflicts/paradoxes. So according to that model I have both a mission of Connection (extrovert) and a mission of Isolation (introvert). (Hopefully I'm remembering the terminology correctly.) It also allows for both sides of the T/F continuum in the same person. When I take the M-B test, I'm straight down the middle on that one.

If you get involved with academia at all, those folks will do their best to make a Thinker out of you, regardless of how you come in ... so what Myers-Briggs shows you is kind of your current status in some ways, but it may not show your true nature in all its complexity.

I guess we should start another thread about personality theory so we can discuss why you feel it's flawed

[Romantic Rebel]

Originally Posted by fashionista-ta

When I'd go to a party or a bar, I'd come home feeling so lousy, and think that I must have done something wrong All it is, is that the energy has been sucked out of you by the crowd, and you need to recharge your batteries by being alone. I find it easier to socialize with a small group. I never understood bars until I found out 75% of the population are extroverts

I believe that really applies to me also. Yeah you got it right... all of the time after I had been to a party I always wanted to be alone. I think I was INFJ or INFP which is also a rare type.