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15-08-2013
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I don't think grunge has ever really not been in style, especially since it was labeled as such in the 90s; it seems to me elements of it are everywhere and have really become classics: in japanese design, in the northwest coast aesthetic, in downtown girl/boy looks, in punk rock, in mod 60s babydolls. It's nothing new, really, except for maybe how it's all mashed together. Maybe that's why if you look through this thread, grunge is always "coming back" year after year. Perhaps it never really left? It certainly didn't for me.

Funny, there's this old photo of my grandma and grandpa in a wheat field wearing oversized cargos/rolled up denim and plaid shirts. It could be poster work for grunge. Rock on gram and gramps, up there in the sky!

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Last edited by Not Plain Jane; 15-08-2013 at 05:03 PM.
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16-08-2013
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^^^ Aaawwwwww... so cool, Jane: Riot grrrrranny and grrrrramps!

Grunge definitely never went away for sure. It's been a mainstay. I think it's just a very practical way of dressing for a lot of young people. Most of the models right here in Toronto have been dressing this way; Skinny ripped jeans, oversized flannels and madras shirts, field jackets paired with Chucks or combat boots. It's cheap, comfortable, and let's face it-- these guys and girls can get away with looking grungy and still beautiful. And models all over the world dress like this-- it's the uniform of the young and skinny.

So to see it promoted for A/W just now is so... so what? I cannot stress how much I despise that Vogue Paris edit; couldn't they come up with a new way to show "Grunge"? Wheat fields, old battered sofas, and a top model with a sheared, croptop????? Why not just pull out the Meisel edit from Vogue US Sept 1992? It was definitely better than this version-- which brought absolutely nothing new. Mert & Marcus need to go away; despite their pretty shots, they're so bland and unoriginal.

As for Hedi: I try to block out the literal grunge styling and just appreciate the sharp designs and immaculate constructions of his latest offering. Still too expensive for my blood and too skinny for my body, but I do appreciate the realness of his take on modern classics behind the seasonal gimmicks. (He's still a creepy man, though.)

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16-08-2013
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COME AS YOU ARE
W September 2013

Hair: Lena Ott & Malcolm Edwards
Makeup: Yadim
Stylist: Edward Enninful
Photographers: Mert Alas and Marcus Piggott







source | models.com via Flashbang

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16-08-2013
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...



source | models.com via Flashbang

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16-08-2013
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Phuel.

The September 2013 editorial in Dazed and Confused with Lizzie Olsen definitely has grunge elements - the makeup and hair, the Saint Laurent. But it has a real urban and more polished tone. I love that editorial!

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16-08-2013
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The Gregory Harris edit? Oh yes yes yes! That is great! Refined grunge that's cool on any age. Presenting sharply-tailored, classic designs, part-Anglocentric, part-Japanese eccentric with the disheveled attitude and mood of grunge is so intelligent and fresh-- unlike this crap that Mert & Marcus spews: They're so one-dimensional and predictable. I hate that W "Come As You Are" edit even more than the VP one: Let's look at some Smashing Pumpkins and Soundgarden videos and just copy the look.

Thanks MissMagAddict for the W edit!

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16-08-2013
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RAGGED GLORY
US Vogue September 2013

Models: Edie Campbell, Ali Spencer & Otis, Isaac & Tara Ferry
Hair: Julien D'Ys
Make-Up: Val Garland
Styist: Camilla Nickerson
Photographer: Mario Testino



Digital Edition US Vogue via Mat Cyruss

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18-08-2013
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^^^ Thanks Miss!

Testino makes Mert & Marcus's versions look like messy, juvenile student-projects with his effortlessly energizing take on grunge. I really like this (minus the awkwardly photoshopped in horse...) Who would've thought Vogue US and Testino are the ones who are able to execute the grunge concept in such a modern and refreshing way that's never costume-y or gimmicky?

The compositions alone are so masterful and the styling and casting is so laid-back and naturally cool; I love the (Ralph Lauren) preppy, roadtrip-vibe. What a great idea to cast guys that aren't Kurt-lookalikes, and not title the edit after a "Grunge" hit song... Good going Mario-- you've still got it.

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23-08-2013
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Ha, I have the opposite opinion. To me, Testino's ed is sterile, bloodless and the boys look like a bunch of preppy douchebags, the antithesis of grunge. There is nothing grunge about this whatsoever.

The M&M ed expresses the grunge look with set and lighting that create a corresponding atmosphere.

Grunge is a thing, it's defined, if you don't like it or are tired of it, don't do it, but don't give me a bunch of preps and call it grunge, what is the point? Boo Testino!

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23-08-2013
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I find the Testino shoot to "clean" and "smiley" for grunge.

Still my favourite is the Dazed and Confused editorial with Lizzie Olsen (on her thread); her hair and make up are right. And something about the atmosphere.

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Fashion: Don’t you recognize me? Death: You should know that I don’t see very well and I can’t wear glasses. Fashion: I’m Fashion, your sister. Death: My sister? Fashion: Yes. You and I together keep undoing and changing things down here on earth although you go about it in one way and I another. Giacomo Leopardi, “Dialogue Between Fashion and Death.”abridged
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25-08-2013
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^^^ See, that's why Mario's version works for me: He's giving me his version of grunge: Mario's world is always rich, beautiful, clean with happy, shiny preppy faces.

He's able to see beyond the cliches of Kurt and Courtney; he's not trying to bring back a 90's aesthetic and because of that, the shoot never verges on retro, or gimmicky. I understand some don't like preppy, but there's a lot of his style in that shoot, and for that, it feels and looks authentic to me despite the overly clean and yes-- I see it, sterile feel. Mario's not pretending to be anyone but himself, whereas Mert and Marcus are such wannabes I don't know who they are (I guess unoriginal "homages" that are overly processed and photoshopped is their trademark?).

The styling in Mario's shoot is how some already dress right now: Here in Toronto on Queen West, the majority of people dress as is styled in the editorial. Mario's version is obviously more expensive and more idealized than how people on the street are wearing it, but at least it's a modern take on grunge that isn't predictably "dirty" and "gloomy" costumey like all the Mert and Marcus versions, which bring absolutely nothing new to the equation unless you like pure retro, or weren't around in 1992: Do we really need anymore shoots with bored stringy haired Kurt lookalikes lounging on a velvet sofa in the middle of a wheat field...? And as editorials, they're just amateurish messes with too much PS filters. That's the type of direction expected from 1st-year art students and best reserved for ModelMayhem territory-- not editorials for top high fashion magazines.

Mario's shows restraint, and I appreciate him very much for that-- even if it's all so "pretty", "joyful" and "clean". And even if you don't like the styling, the vibe... you have to admit how beautiful and masterful his compositions are here.

BTW tangerine, from my experience, it's always the desperate fashiony-types that are the douchebags-- and that goes for all the fashion-victim queens carrying status purses... YMMV and all, of course.

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26-08-2013
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It seems that the crux of our differences of opinion is that we define terms differently.

To clarify my use of the word "douchebag": the current slang use of "douchebag" has a pretty specific, if possibly localized meaning, and it's the opposite of desperate. The primary characteristic of a douchebag is someone whose obvious self-satisfaction and sense of entitlement is their most notable feature. The "fashiony" aspect of douchebaggery is more debatable but I'd say the archetypal douchebag wears very mainstream, "safe" clothing, probably from A&F if he is from the US. This example from urbandictionary.com is illustrative:

Quote:
Damn, i thought "Beverly Hills 90210" won the permanent award for most douchebags casted in one weekly television show, but then someone had to go make that show, "Friends."
Back to the primary topic, is Testino's ed "grunge"?:

Quote:
Mario's world is always rich, beautiful, clean with happy, shiny preppy faces.
Couldn't have less to do with grunge! Grunge is poor, messy, dirty, and depressed. It was born under the gloomy, overcast skies of the Pacific Northwest, dressed in Goodwill and thrift (not "vintage") stores, and slunk around the streets of Seattle in the rain like a beaten dog.

Even the women in Testino's ed don't evoke any aspect of grunge; they are more like neo-hippie/boho types, reminding me of Peaches Geldof five or six years ago.

This debate reminds me of the Humpty Dumpty chapter in Lewis Carroll's Through the Looking Glass, where Humpty Dumpty says "when I use a word, it means exactly what I want it to mean - neither more, nor less.

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27-08-2013
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^^^ Oh-- any smug, self-centered, and entitled type is a douchebag, to me. My addition of "desperate" to the equation is that these types don't know they're desperately status-chasing: There are as many douchey types in high fashion as there are of the typical Guido-variety. I'm only speaking and defining the term through experience. I think we can all agree douchrbags come in all forms.

As for how Grunge is defined: I agree with all you've described as the essence of Grunge. I'm just glad to see a photographer give me his take on it rather than subscribe to the predictable and obvious template. Mario's version may be completely, and utterly wrong, and a totally misses the point to some, but I appreciate him staying true to his sensibilities and having a point-- his point, rather than churn out another bland Kurt and Courtney tribute. Had someone told me ahead of time that Anna and Mario were attempting "Grunge" for 2013, I would have since I'm not a fan of theirs. But, this time, I really liked what they did, and I like their version best because the essence of Mario and Anna is in this version. It may be all wrong and completely lost in their translation, but it just feels right for the times, for me.

And you're so right to reference Lewis Carroll tangerine: High fashion and all its pointless and brilliant spawn just feels so right... through the Looking Glass.


Last edited by Phuel; 27-08-2013 at 02:02 PM.
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