[vagrants]

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by the co-writers do you mean the three guys in her band or the previous members?

TPR is essentially a solo act pretending to be a band. The album was co written and produced by a writer-producer team, with Momsen as the third (she's a singer, not a musician, so her contribution probably amounted to some lyrics). The two writer-producers (can't remember their names but check Wikipedia if you're interested) were also writer-producers for Paramore, which has a similar structure. The band members (whatever set you like, they seem to change) are essentially a hired touring band - they might appear in the videos but they're definitely not getting paid as band members. [/music geekiness]

[Boomer]

^ That situation doesn't sound like something that will serve Taylor well in the long term...

[lawaldorf]

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Originally Posted by vagrants It's not that she's failing at trying to be Diane Kruger, it's that she is a young girl (she started dressing in stripper gear at 16, and she might be almost 18 now but that doesn't make her emotionally or sexually mature) using her body in an incredibly adult way, which is disturbing. If it were just the makeup or just the shoes or just the occasional lingerie piece worn with pants or even any kind of clothing at all, etc, that would be one thing. But she's out selling, promoting, and performing her music dressed literally as a stripper.

I don't disagree, but I don't think 16-17 is too young to dress the way she does because I think the stuff she wears would be foolish and tacky on women of any age in public. Is it honestly better to wear that stuff in your 20s, 30s, or even 40s if you want people to take you seriously as a fully mature woman?

I get that her literal striptease is disturbing , but it would be just as disturbing if she did it while wearing a turtleneck and overalls (even more so). I'm simply saying if she goes off the deep end, it's an issue beyond her usual "style" of negligees and boots.

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It's completely normal for teenagers to experiment with style, with sex, to want to shock others, and goth and punk are legitimate styles, yes. But she is not a normal teenager - she doesn't appear to have parents who actually parent, she's the object of media attention, and she's on stage presenting herself for consumption. All of that is a legitimate subject for criticism.

I agree about her parents. There's a lot of trouble Taylor can get into that's way more worrying than wearing lingerie to perform and bad makeup.

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And she's not a train wreck, which makes her a guilt free object of snark. Other than the disturbing affinity for lingerie as clothing, the flashing, etc, she seems to have her act together. Which she deserves props for, but I can still hate on that awful effing makeup.

Yeah I get that her style is tawdry and people can hate it, but I see comments like "She could be SO pretty" and I'm saying the point is she is actively rejecting being pretty. She's the biggest cliche around, nothing she does is original, but neither is what people keep bashing her for over and over again.

[cloudyshambles]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vagrants TPR is essentially a solo act pretending to be a band. The album was co written and produced by a writer-producer team, with Momsen as the third (she's a singer, not a musician, so her contribution probably amounted to some lyrics). The two writer-producers (can't remember their names but check Wikipedia if you're interested) were also writer-producers for Paramore, which has a similar structure. The band members (whatever set you like, they seem to change) are essentially a hired touring band - they might appear in the videos but they're definitely not getting paid as band members. [/music geekiness]

doesn't she keep saying in interviews how she wrote all the songs on the album herself or together with one of her band members?

[vagrants]

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Is it honestly better to wear that stuff in your 20s, 30s, or even 40s if you want people to take you seriously as a fully mature woman?

You're completely right. At least at her current age, you can pretend it's teenage rebellion.

I think the pretty point depends on what sense of pretty you mean. She's definitely rejecting the perky blonde (and admittedly, completely dull) prettiness of Jenny in early seasons of GG, and she's taken pains to tell people about it so that there's no mistake. If it's more pretty in the sense of being attractive, there I don't agree. I don't think she's rejecting anything - it's an affirmative statement about being 'cool' and 'rock and roll' (which is a depressing misunderstanding of rock and roll), and I definitely get the idea that she thinks she's super hot. But obviously, I could be wrong. It's an interesting question whatever the answer.

What this really makes me wonder about is whether or not she ever wanted to act in the first place. She not only ran the hell away from GG, and made sure everyone knew how she felt about it, she's tried to erase Jenny and her younger, big smile and pretty dresses persona entirely. And done a really good job of it judging by the 'she could be so pretty posts', as you pointed out. That says more 'rejecting this crap my parents pushed me into' than 'I am authentically a twisted, ****ed up dark queen of rock and roll' to me.

And, cloudyshambles, I think so, but she had two co-writers, neither of whom play in the current band, and I would bet my house they wrote all the music and probably worked over whatever lyrics she started with. It's catchy and formulaic, which is what a writer/producer does for a living. The irony is that she has a voice good enough to make an actual contribution to a band. If she were giving a voice to a band with real musicians writing original music, she could be a rock singer. There's no shame in just being a singer. Not all members of a band have to be writing the music.

[vagrants]

Eek, forgot:

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That situation doesn't sound like something that will serve Taylor well in the long term...

It works really well for most pop stars, but indie artists are expected to write their own music. Not because of indie cred, but because artists who aren't making lots of money for the label need to write their own music to keep costs down. They might shell out for a couple more albums hoping that Taylor will become the next Paramore, but at some point they're going to lose their patience. Especially if she keeps putting herself outside of the mainstream. Labels tolerate a lot of small time artists, but only if said artists will do what they say to try and sell more records. Wearing lingerie is probably less of a problem for them then wanting to make original but not lucrative music, but the bottom line of paying writers will kill TPR unless she gives in and goes pop.

[lawaldorf]

One of her band members is her co-writer and the other is producer Kato Khandwala (Paramore, Papa Roach, Blondie). And I don't for a second buy that she's this music prodigy who writes her music by herself, lol. I think the music she did when she first debuted with her old band was better and more fun, but she can't use any of those songs (save for Zombie, my favorite... probably cut some deal with them) because she doesn't have the rights to them after she fired those guys and hired the current older guys. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Boomer]

^ All good points...I was just reading a good bio of Lady Gaga, and they had asked her what she would be doing now if her record deal hadn't hit it big (it was looking very doubtful for a time) and she said she'd be back working the downtown bars and clubs where she started out and trying to pay the rent...I wonder if this isn't going to be Taylor's fate too, at this point...

(BTW- shouldn't this thread be moved over to the Art of Noise section now? With Taylor, there isn't really any acting or 'style' issue to pay attention to anymore...)

[cloudyshambles]

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Originally Posted by vagrants And, cloudyshambles, I think so, but she had two co-writers, neither of whom play in the current band, and I would bet my house they wrote all the music and probably worked over whatever lyrics she started with. It's catchy and formulaic, which is what a writer/producer does for a living. The irony is that she has a voice good enough to make an actual contribution to a band. If she were giving a voice to a band with real musicians writing original music, she could be a rock singer. There's no shame in just being a singer. Not all members of a band have to be writing the music.

interesting! that's true, not all band members have to be writing the music, but I respect bands a lot more when at least one of the members writes the music. I think it's kinda sad if someone claims to have written all the songs when in fact they didn't (as in Taylor's case)

I think your theory that she behaves the way she does to reject the role and the job her parents pushed her into at an early age sounds very plausible. she's in the typical rebel teenage phase and if her parents had pushed her into music, maybe she'd be pursuing acting now? lol

[#strawberry#]

Gosh, when will you EVER get that she's writing her own songs since the age of 4 ??????
It's not she's never mentioned it or something ....

[cloudyshambles]

^

[Boomer]

Noted songwriter/rock legend Taylor Momsen continues her goodwill tour, showing the underage class and professionalism that has made her such a success!

Taylor Momsen Gives Female Fan Lap Dance at Concert

Sure Taylor Momsen wants to distance herself from her former life as the Upper East Side's 'Gossip Girl' queen bee in training, but is she going overboard when it comes to letting her bad girl side run wild? The 17-year-old actress turned singer got more than a little close with several of her fans at a performance with her band, The Pretty Reckless, in Barcelona on Wednesday, the UK's Daily Mail reports.

This singer's shows are known for getting fans in the mood to take it all off but from the looks of it, Barcelona was more than eager to strip and grind with the boundary pushing starlet. A swarm of topless girls danced on stage with Momsen as she belted out her wise-beyond-her-years tunes and even straddled one fan for a lap dance.
Although fellow pop stars like Rihanna and Katy Perry are often slammed for their overtly sexual lyrics or skimpy on-stage getups, Momsen, who is still a minor, takes the cake for her provocative performances -- most likely attended by a majority of fellow minors.


Popeater.com

[vagrants]

Someone call social services before she's 18. Even just a few months of parenting from a total stranger would be better than what she's got now.

[lawaldorf]

LOL girl.... you're making it hard for me

startraks

Why she's more authentic than music today, English accent, f-bombs, and all

[Boomer]

^ That Lady Gaga better watch out- Taylor is coming to take her crown!! She will be selling out Madison Square Garden any time now!! (And she has been writing songs since she is 4 years old!! Match THAT, Gaga!!)