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17-08-2004
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Quote:
Originally posted by softgrey@Aug 17 2004, 09:19 PM
umm.....heard of cloning
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Softie, what I was speaking of was something different from cloning, cloning implies a process which "is not too far" (relatively speaking) from the developpement of humans. What I was speaking of was the creation of a human being "mechaniquely".... Believe me, I've worked on a one year project on stuff related to cloning and all that stuff.

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18-08-2004
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kimkhuu@Aug 17 2004, 10:07 PM
Softie, what I was speaking of was something different from cloning, cloning implies a process which "is not too far" (relatively speaking) from the developpement of humans. What I was speaking of was the creation of a human being "mechaniquely".... Believe me, I've worked on a one year project on stuff related to cloning and all that stuff.
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why would anyone expect to create a living thing mechanically?...nothing living is created that way...it has to grow...but it can be grown artificially...by the hand of man...not necessarily the hand of god...

that's my point...

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18-08-2004
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Kimkhuu, I certainly understand where you are coming from.

I often question why so we readily accept the reality with which we are presented.

A lot of people think it's pretentious and naive to question this, as it has 'all been said before' - but shouldn't it be the other way around?

Of course, I doubt there will ever be an answer as such, certainly not one everyone will agree upon, so in the meantime, I suppose we'd all go insane.

I agree with your sentiments on religion. It is hard to say this without offending anyone, but I feel it is so ludicrous to believe a story about a God creating the world, in this day and age of scientific progress, an equasion, a drug, a theory, a formula to solve every problem.

I think therefore it's important to keep questioning our own lives, and constantly looking at things from a different perspective, finding meaning and quality in our own thoughts and activities.

I hope that made some sense.

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18-08-2004
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When one sees the intricacy of the world, the ingenious nature of the human body, the variety of species, the ocean, weather, stars, planets, everything ever made by human hands, to me it is much easier to believe in a creator God than that it is all a big accident. That's like observing a tornado plow through a junk yard and expecting to find a new, fully-assembled Porsche 911 left in its wake.

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20-08-2004
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Quote:
Originally posted by softgrey+Aug 18 2004, 03:19 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(softgrey @ Aug 18 2004, 03:19 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'>umm.....heard of cloning?...we're making living tbeings as we speak...what used to be incomprehensible is now commonplace...think of the internet for crap's sake...or cell phones or tv;s...everything will be comprehended eventually...humanity is actually very young...relatively speaking ...we haven't existd for all that long...and at the rate we are progressing....we will either solve all of life's mysteries pretty rapidly or blow ourselves up...


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Quote:
Originally posted by Kimkhuu@Aug 18 2004, 04:07 AM
Softie, what I was speaking of was something different from cloning, cloning implies a process which "is not too far" (relatively speaking) from the developpement of humans. What I was speaking of was the creation of a human being "mechaniquely".... Believe me, I've worked on a one year project on stuff related to cloning and all that stuff.
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<!--QuoteBegin-softgrey
@Aug 19 2004, 01:23 AM
why would anyone expect to create a living thing mechanically?...nothing living is created that way...it has to grow...but it can be grown artificially...by the hand of man...not necessarily the hand of god...

that's my point...
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Only Picaso can make a work of art that can be called a piece by Picaso, but, people can copy (or clone) his work, but can never call it, their work. Cloning a person and creating a person are not one and the same thing.

We still dont fully understand how each DNA chomasome counts for each feature, we may have mapped the human genome, but trying to make a human from scratch is still a far flung possibility.

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20-08-2004
  36
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these are the real problems of our world.....

-Unequality (which covers starvation, bad healthcare, poverty, gender/sex/colour issues )
-Evilness (which covers violence, crime, terrorism, general unfriendlyness to people)
-Man made problems (pollution, obesity, destruction of nature)
-Physical problems (weather causing problems for people...ie: floods, lack of water, hurricane's...etc......and also possibility of meteor hitting earth)

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20-08-2004
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The one thing I've always wondered, but never dwelled upon cause it hurts my head after a while, is how is it that the universe just doesn't end? Like, if we were able to go that far into space, how is it that there would neve be an ending??? Can something possible be infinite? And if it isn't then what's at the end?

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20-08-2004
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well......if it does end.....we know for sure its something black

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20-08-2004
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Quote:
Originally posted by softgrey@Aug 18 2004, 07:23 PM
why would anyone expect to create a living thing mechanically?...nothing living is created that way...it has to grow...but it can be grown artificially...by the hand of man...not necessarily the hand of god...

that's my point...
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even with cloning, man isn't really making a being "grow" ...they are just finding other ways to START the growing process...and change the codes for physical outcome....we are FAR from actually creating these codes (ie. an actual DNA nucleotide from scratch), and we are far from actually being the ones inducing the growth (i.e. getting the DNA to make a cell, which will then split, which will then serve a specific task, etc)

but even IF we create the final physical being from scratch and learn to make it grow, we are very far from making that physical being actually LIVE...(i.e. make choices, love, hate, form opinions, etc)

these things, as of today, are IMPOSSIBLE for man to create...cloning is childs play

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20-08-2004
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Quote:
Originally posted by CaptainJackSparrow@Aug 20 2004, 01:32 PM
even with cloning, man isn't really making a being "grow" ...they are just finding other ways to START the growing process...and change the codes for physical outcome....we are FAR from actually creating these codes (ie. an actual DNA nucleotide from scratch), and we are far from actually being the ones inducing the growth (i.e. getting the DNA to make a cell, which will then split, which will then serve a specific task, etc)

but even IF we create the final physical being from scratch and learn to make it grow, we are very far from making that physical being actually LIVE...(i.e. make choices, love, hate, form opinions, etc)

these things, as of today, are IMPOSSIBLE for man to create...cloning is childs play
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Very well put

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20-08-2004
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Quote:
Originally posted by Spike413@Aug 20 2004, 01:11 PM
The one thing I've always wondered, but never dwelled upon cause it hurts my head after a while, is how is it that the universe just doesn't end? Like, if we were able to go that far into space, how is it that there would neve be an ending??? Can something possible be infinite? And if it isn't then what's at the end?
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Imagine for a moment that you are traveling forward in a straight line, but in reality, you are going in a circle.

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20-08-2004
  42
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Quote:
Originally posted by Spike413@Aug 20 2004, 02:11 PM
The one thing I've always wondered, but never dwelled upon cause it hurts my head after a while, is how is it that the universe just doesn't end? Like, if we were able to go that far into space, how is it that there would neve be an ending??? Can something possible be infinite? And if it isn't then what's at the end?
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and then when you throw in the theory of parallel universe :dizzy:

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20-08-2004
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Quote:
Originally posted by CaptainJackSparrow@Aug 20 2004, 08:32 AM
even with cloning, man isn't really making a being "grow" ...they are just finding other ways to START the growing process...and change the codes for physical outcome....we are FAR from actually creating these codes (ie. an actual DNA nucleotide from scratch), and we are far from actually being the ones inducing the growth (i.e. getting the DNA to make a cell, which will then split, which will then serve a specific task, etc)

but even IF we create the final physical being from scratch and learn to make it grow, we are very far from making that physical being actually LIVE...(i.e. make choices, love, hate, form opinions, etc)

these things, as of today, are IMPOSSIBLE for man to create...cloning is childs play
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This reminds me of an old joke. The devil says to God, "I'm going to make me a man." God says, "Go ahead, make you a man." The devil bent down and began to scoop up some clay. "Ah, ah, ah -- start by making your own clay!" (see Genesis 2:7 for the reference.)

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20-08-2004
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Quote:
Originally posted by ahhGucci@Aug 20 2004, 08:37 AM
Imagine for a moment that you are traveling forward in a straight line, but in reality, you are going in a circle.
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Too much for my brain to comprehend......seriously that question gets me all

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20-08-2004
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kimkhuu@Aug 12 2004, 04:26 AM
..........you can never get an answer to anything!!! Ex.: let's say I ask you why does a pen fall down when I dropo it.....* You'll tell me it's because of gravity, and you can even go on an talk to me about Newton and you can even make calculs out of it all, but all you're explaining to me is HOW things happened not WHY!!!!* Don't know if you guys are getting it.... But even if you finally (FOR EXAMPLE!!!) get to an answer that it's because of God.* But there's still another WHY and you'll go on and on and on and asking why all the time, so you're never gonna get an answer.....

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They say that science can answer the "how" questions and religion can answer the "why" questions. There is and interesting article on this at Science v. Religion


I have always been intrigued with questions of the quantum world. We live in the "normal" world, where we label everything and have explanations for how things are, for example, Newton did not "invent" gravity, it always existed. He merely gathered the information to explain it and gave it a name.

I don't think that it is such a crazy notion to believe that such discoveries come from a different realm, like a sixth sense, like when you get "in the zone" when u work out, or get a gut instinct about something. The periodic table came to a russian scientist in a dream! Maybe this is what we are missing (the 96% of our brain that we don't use) as we have been conditioned from an early age as a child to accept what we see and what we are told. Kimkhuu's "whys" remind me of being a child always asking "why" and never being satisfied with the answer "it JUST IS!!". Maybe we have closed off our ability to receive it so easily from birth. Maybe it's an ESP thing!

If you think I am crazy, can you proove me wrong

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