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31-05-2006
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Oh I have found my people (great thread Anastasia!) I LOVE X-men I love anything to do with superheroes they just really appeal to me.. I like all comics and heroes almost. My least fave is probably Spiderman.

Ok Wolverine was especially hot in this one so i was very very happy But like u all said there was something just not right in this one.. I was never one to throw out the emotional real plot of a movie for extra special effects! I adore Phoenix, she is an excellent superhero and her history and developments are really interesting. I do hope she will be in the Wolverine spin-off, I liked her relationship with Logan more than with Scott.
I thought her part in the movie was what saved it for me, other than that I wasn't extremely impressed, they pretty much rushed through all the other characters.. And where was Night Crawler??
I could talk about this movie for hours.. I can't wait to see it again. At the end of the day I loved it, but it felt like it could've been really much better..

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31-05-2006
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it was ok. not really worth the money, but few movies really are.
5/10

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31-05-2006
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i gotta say i'm a big fan of the X-Men movie franchise!! i mean, it's not gonna win any awards or anything, but this was exactly the type of summer blockbuster movie i was expecting and hoping for (and we all know many movies fail to meet this goal). though i also have to agree with the angel storyline - he had so much potential to be an interesting character but was kind of ignored. room for X-Men 4??

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31-05-2006
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Well I'm not sure about angel because all he can do is fly.. at the end of the day.. I don't think he was that big a deal in the comics either if I recall correctly

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02-06-2006
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I'm watching it tomorrow! After 3 years of waiting!!! Although I know what happens already...still...

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02-06-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juliet
Well I'm not sure about angel because all he can do is fly.. at the end of the day.. I don't think he was that big a deal in the comics either if I recall correctly
Angel also has hollow, super strong bones that allow him to fly very fast (I think 150mph) and high and he can easily carry approx 500lbs...his feathered wings are powerful enough to kill a man if he hits with them, but he never does, because this is Marvel - Kitty doesn't go around sticking her hands in people's chests, disrupting the electrical impulses to the heart, either His eyes are adapted to great speeds and he has some kind of sheath in his lungs that allow him to extract more oxygen from the air at high altitude. He has essentially no body fat and lots and lots of muscle. Then there was his stint as Arcangel, but I like to forget about that, if only because of the color scheme.

Warren was a big deal in the comics in that he's been around since the beginning. He was one of the founding members (along with Hank, Bobby, Scott, and Jean). He remained with the team consistently until Giant Sized, when he flirted with Storm but couldn't stomach Wolverine and his animal ways and his hitting on Jean, so he left to go live in New Mexico with Candy Southern, who I always thought was pretty hot, despite her porny name.

He reappeared in time for the Dark Phoenix Saga, where he had one of his deepest and most interesting moments - in the comics, DP had killed an entire world, 5 billion Asparagus People - she wasn't supposed to, Claremont wrote the planet uninhabited, sent it off to Byrne, who is a mysogynist pig - I know people in the industry who worked with him closely for years, and they add anti-semitic bigot to that - and hated Jean powerful...remember, at the time, Jean and Phoenix were one and the same, like in X3...anyway, Byrne decides to draw the world populated by "mistake", and there's no time to correct the art before publication, so Jean is now a mass murderer and editor Jim Shooter declares she has to die, because it's a bad example. Previously, the original ending was that she had her powers taken away in #137, and in #150, she'd be kidnapped by Magneto and offered the return of her powers for her loyalty, and she'd accept.

Anyway, Jean was completely insane, but guilty of genocide, and the Shi'ar were going to put her to death. And bunches of the X-Men were going to fight for her life, and Angel had a rather remarkable panel where he was all torn up inside and confessing to Nightcrawler that even though he loved her, he didn't know if he could fight for her because of what she'd done. He wound up fighting anyway, but it was a nice piece of character insight, even if kind of moot since Jean started shifting back and forth between the Phoenix and Dark Phoenix personas, and tricked her friends into beating her down enough to where she could successfully kill herself right in front of Cyke. Poor guy never really got over it.

Back to Angel - he then went over to the Defenders, with Beast, and then they started X-Factor , destroyed Scott and Jean's history, characters, and personalities entirely so that they could "resurrect" her and and have the "Original Five Shockingly Together Again!". And it wasn't even well written. Kurt Busiek was actually the one to come up with the insultingly moronic "Phoenix Entity" garbage, but I don't blame him, he was a kid. Byrne and Shooter, on the other hand...my outrage is endless.

So Angel was with X-Factor....got changed by Apocalypse into Arcangel (don't ask, he was a metallic pink and blue smurf with a deathwish)...rejoined the X-Men when they went to Blue & Gold teams. Unconvincingly romanced Psylocke for awhile. Then I stopped reading the books, but I heard he had a thing with the barely legal Paige Guthrie, so I'm glad I quit them when I did

I've never been the biggest fan of Warren, but had a friend who was positively obsessed with the man, and learned to love to hate a lot of things about him. He was a very interesting character, and an integral part of the team history and dynamics, if not always the roster, since 1963. I really didn't like him in the movie though, perhaps because he didn't remind me at all, in body or mind or personality, of Warren Worthington III. He was just some kid with wings...outside of the name and the wings, I couldn't see anything in common with his comic counterpart.

And that's more than you ever wanted to know about Angel

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02-06-2006
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Thank u tons for that explanation!! Obviously I didn't know that much about Angel He does seem complex and interesting in the comics so ya they didn't do such a good job of him in the film.. that's too bad

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juliet
Thank u tons for that explanation!! Obviously I didn't know that much about Angel He does seem complex and interesting in the comics so ya they didn't do such a good job of him in the film.. that's too bad
No problem I forgot to mention what is his most dramatic moment (probably because of the later connection to Apocalypse) - in the 80's there were a large group of low level mutants living in an abandoned sewer system underneath the city, and led by Callisto (Storm's foe in the movie, though she's pretty different in the comics). Hundreds of them, quite like the masses that Magneto got together as his army. Pretty much minding their own business, except when they had a "fight to the death" for Kitty's freedom, because Callisto wanted her to marry Leech or something. And Callisto herself was hot for Angel.

Anyway, there was a storyline called the Mutant Massacre. The reasons and people behind it weren't explained until much later, and all you knew was that some VERY bad people, like Sabretooth, Arclight, Vertigo, Harpoon, etc, calling themselves the Marauders, went into the tunnels and started slaughtering the innocent Morlocks indescriminately. It was quite scary. The X-Men responded and wound up taking quite a few casualities themselves, with Kitty, Nightcrawler, and Colossus having to leave the team to recover on Muir Island with Moira MacTaggert (they later founded Excalibur when they thought the X-Men had perished during Fall of the Mutants). Magneto was left in charge of the school and students. And Angel had some particularly gruesome and haunting scenes where he was crucified by the Marauders, almost died, and wound up losing his wings.

I don't expect the movie to be the same as the comics, it's an alternate universe, and I enjoy that. But I really like for there to be core, basic, personality traits in common with the comic versions. So you know who they are without being told They did a good job with Xavier, Magneto, Nightcrawler, Kitty, Jean, Logan, etc, but really fell down with Warren, and I think Rogue as well. Rogue has had a couple of distinct incarnations...the most well known is what she was like in the 90's books and cartoon, all cleavage and mopey and punchy and mooning over Gambit at the expense of everything. In the 80's, when she joined the team (as a villain! Mystique is her mother, and she was part of the Brotherhood, and left not because of moral issues but because she wanted Xavier to help her control her powers...he gave that about as much attention as he gave helping Jean with hers - he was too busy running off with his bitchy girlfriend Lilandra to help Jean until it was way too late) she was kickass and firey, a little sulky and whiny at times, but a strong, independent tomboy who stood up for herself and always did things the hard way. I see none of that in Paquin's Rogue.

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Last edited by Anastasia; 02-06-2006 at 04:14 AM.
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02-06-2006
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WARNING SPOILER
please don't read this if u haven't seen the film!!

Anastasia: Ah I see.. Ya that sounds pretty scary!! I didn't know how he lost his wings so thanks for telling me all about that.

Was Rogue Mystique's daughter in the newer comics? Coz in the ones I read she wasn't she was in the comics before Mystique was! So maybe ur talking about different comics? I know all about Rogue's history , how she was, and her whole love affair with Gambit, and I used to love love that character in the comics and was so pumped to see her come to life in the movies.. I was quite happy with her relationship with Wolverine in the first movie and kinda in the second but the third one she seemed so weak and the thing she did for Bobby most of my friends said that she just wanted to be able to love and it's not something you can blame her for but just knowing how she was in the comics as the way you described her I wouldn't think she'd do that for those reasons at all. And she was also so much more bombshellish in the comics I was really disappointed with rogue as I used to love her but I ended up disliking her story the most in the X3 Don't u think they could've used that more to their advantage, like they could've shown how she was strong and said Bobby is not worth it and not gone and done that by learning that a guy thing isn't a reason to throw ur powers away, and then hey if she wanted to make it a bit more complex and reasonable than that!! U know what I mean? it was too superficial and rash in my opinion

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Last edited by Juliet; 02-06-2006 at 06:01 AM.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juliet
WARNING SPOILER
Was Rogue Mystique's daughter in the newer comics? Coz in the ones I read she wasn't she was in the comics before Mystique was! So maybe ur talking about different comics?
I'm talking about 616 universe (main continuity, not Ultimate) Uncanny X-Men issues, which came out in the early 1980's Rogue and Mystique both existed in the Marvel Universe before showing up in X-Men - I know they were in Avengers, as villains, that's where Rogue and Carol Danvers had their life-altering encounter - and I believe Rogue's first appearance in X-Men is #158. She joins the team in #171. And she's definitely Mystiques (foster, but treated as natural, calls her mama, etc) daughter I will scan some pages for you this coming week, including Mystique's first appearance in X-Men, which was around #141 if I'm remembering correctly





Quote:
I ended up disliking her story the most in the X3 Don't u think they could've used that more to their advantage, like they could've shown how she was strong and said Bobby is not worth it and not gone and done that by learning that a guy thing isn't a reason to throw ur powers away, and then hey if she wanted to make it a bit more complex and reasonable than that!! U know what I mean? it was too superficial and rash in my opinion
I agree very much! It didn't bother me that she took the cure so much as the way she did it, and how it wasn't explored enough. I see it setting up big, big problems for them down the road, since he seemed ready to move on even before she did it. And she's never going to be able to live with herself (or she'll kill him if she feels like she did it for nothing.

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02-06-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anastasia
I'm talking about 616 universe (main continuity, not Ultimate) Uncanny X-Men issues, which came out in the early 1980's Rogue and Mystique both existed in the Marvel Universe before showing up in X-Men - I know they were in Avengers, as villains, that's where Rogue and Carol Danvers had their life-altering encounter - and I believe Rogue's first appearance in X-Men is #158. She joins the team in #171. And she's definitely Mystiques (foster, but treated as natural, calls her mama, etc) daughter I will scan some pages for you this coming week, including Mystique's first appearance in X-Men, which was around #141 if I'm remembering correctly
Oh thank you so much!!!! I would really appreciate it!! Allright now I see what issues you are talking about That's really interesting that she was her daughter!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Anastasia
I agree very much! It didn't bother me that she took the cure so much as the way she did it, and how it wasn't explored enough. I see it setting up big, big problems for them down the road, since he seemed ready to move on even before she did it. And she's never going to be able to live with herself (or she'll kill him if she feels like she did it for nothing.
Yeah I know that's exactly what I mean.. The reason they made her do it was so horrible and it's like just sad u know, it disappoints u in Rogue It's not something she'd have done!!

Anyway take your time with the scanning and thank you very much for all the info u've been giving me!

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03-06-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juliet

Anyway take your time with the scanning and thank you very much for all the info u've been giving me!
You're welcome

I went through 2 boxes and scanned a couple things here and there - I want to do some of the Silvestri/Claremont mid '80s Rogue too, because she's my favorite, but she's in another box along with Mystique, apparently, so I'll have to look for them (I haven't gone through these and they're all out of order, no idea what happened

This is just a recent Logan/Jean thing from Endsong, I hated the story in general, but this page was perfect and reminded me of the movie:
http://www.sevensparrows.net/xmen/endsong3-001.jpg


Rogue's first ever appearance in the pages of Uncanny X-Men (the mothership), issue #158:
http://www.sevensparrows.net/xmen/uxm158-001.jpg
http://www.sevensparrows.net/xmen/uxm158-002.jpg


Rogue arrives at the mansion/joins the team, Uncanny #171, methinks Kitty is protesting so much because she knows Logan hates Rogue:
http://www.sevensparrows.net/xmen/uxm171-001.jpg
http://www.sevensparrows.net/xmen/uxm171-002.jpg
http://www.sevensparrows.net/xmen/uxm171-003.jpg


Rogue earns acceptance by the X-Men through Wolverine, who previously wanted her dead for what she did to Carol, Uncanny #173, these pages aren't consecutive:
http://www.sevensparrows.net/xmen/uxm173-001.jpg
http://www.sevensparrows.net/xmen/uxm173-002.jpg


Random pages from the Roy Thomas/Neal Adams days, love the art and the stories were fun and surprisingly deep, if you take away all the !!!!!!!!!!!!

Magneto inexplicably asks Marvel Girl (Jean) to rule by his side! She should have said yes! Probably would have had much less heartache in the long run! http://www.sevensparrows.net/xmen/rtna001.jpg

Beast is perturbed! EXTREMELY PERTURBED! Hank & Jean are my favorite comic friendship, I should scan some of them in the old days.
http://www.sevensparrows.net/xmen/rtna002.jpg

I never noticed, until today, that Sauron's death (fantastic story) is almost exactly the same as Jean's eventual death. You even have Scott saying "Maybe it's best this way...two beings struggled for supremacy within Karl Lykos...one of them a monster...but it was the man who won out, even in death. We must find strength in that!" which is his DP speech! Jean's got a 'filing this away' look on her face
http://www.sevensparrows.net/xmen/rtna003.jpg

And oh look! Professor Xavier ISN'T dead! He was just fooling! Devastating one and all! And look, he made Jean help him and lie to her friends and lover every day for over a year! Good man, that Charles :p
http://www.sevensparrows.net/xmen/rtna004.jpg

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Thank you so so much Anastasia!!! I officially am in your debt I enjoyed them so much! Haha it was so cool to read them, and the Phoenix Wolverine one was my favorite.. their relationship is my favorite You're right it does remind me of the movie too..
Now I know more about Rogue She really really is so much different in the movies unfortunately! That Kitty part was funny. And I loved the last page where Wolverine saves her and explains why he's doing it, he's such a hero.
I loved the Beast being preturbed!!!
and scott calling jean jeanie heheh... X-Men are just all brilliant characters, I wish the movies could depict them better but they dont' have much time or room for that I guess. Haha yeah poor Jean! What a burden!!

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03-06-2006
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Obviously I'm not as HUGE a fan as some other people here

Even though it wasn't in the comics, I was always hoping that the movie would do it's own thing and have a relationship between Rogue and Wolverine. I think Iceboy is too much of a ninny and Jean isn't anything fabulous (sorry Jean fans! ).

Wolverine

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04-06-2006
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Recently saw the movie. It was OK, nothing more, nothing less I'd say. 3 on a scale of 5.

The actual story was probably the best out of the three movies so far. I however found some of the scenes to be a bit corny if I may say so.

One thing's for sure though, Batman Begins set a whole new standard for comic books becoming movies and this one is nowhere near that one.

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