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29-09-2009
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Ryan Weld's Avatar
 
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I don't want you to think that I'm just being a dick here, but I actually played with the 50D and D90 side by side and from what I remember the auto WB was really bad, the colours weren't as good and the high ISO was noisier. The lens (which cost well over 1K) felt like cheap plastic and the ergonomics of the body was also lacking. I mean, the 50D is still a good camera but I think the D90 is better and cheaper.

If you have lens that you can use with the 50D then I guess buying a 50D would be the sensible thing to do, but I'm not sure if the film lens would work with a DSLR (I know Nikon DSLRs have excellent compatibility with film lens) and keep in mind that the film ones are FX so the photos would be cropped on the 50D. For example, using a FX 50mm prime on a DX camera is a pain in the arse because it's so narrow.

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29-09-2009
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Hmmmm ok, very interesting post. Gives me something to think about that's for sure.

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29-09-2009
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I am trying to get my hands on a Nikon D80. They are so hard to come by. I'll keep checking ebay for a deal.

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29-09-2009
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I imagine that those would be very hard to find these days. I hope you can find one in good condition for cheap, they are a very good camera.

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29-09-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CherryBomb01 View Post
...Also, I have a couple of lenses which I believe will fit it from my old EOS 500n which is a 35mm camera. It's about 8 or 9 years old now and I don't use it anymore. I'm 99% sure the lenses fit the current DSLR range.
I believe the 500n uses EF mount lenses, which will work on the 50D, albeit there is the crop factor that Ryan mentions. This means that, for instance, your 50mm lens will become effectively an 80mm lens. This is not inherently bad; Canon's L lenses are all full frame (aka FX) lenses, and they are excellent and highly recommended for use with the 50D.

If you want one walkaround lens that will serve most purposes, the EF-S 17-55 f2.8 IS USM is generally considered to be very good (though not as well-built as the L lenses). Ryan, you neglected to mention that the Nikon lenses cost significantly more than the Canon lenses where there is an equivalent lens. There are plenty of people who will support your assertion that if cost is no object, Nikkor lenses are better, but for most people the cost could well be a significant consideration.

It can also be argued that in the crop factor (DX) range, Canon's offerings are much more diverse and better than Nikon's, and it's not until you start comparing the FF (FX) lenses that Nikkor has the upper hand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Weld View Post
...I actually played with the 50D and D90 side by side and from what I remember the auto WB was really bad, the colours weren't as good and the high ISO was noisier. The lens (which cost well over 1K) felt like cheap plastic and the ergonomics of the body was also lacking.
I'm not entirely sure what you mean when you refer to the ergonomics, but if you mean the comfort of holding the camera in your hands and operating the controls, this is something that to a large degree is subjective. (I have not compared the two cameras you mention, but when I compared a Nikon D60 to a Canon 450D, I also preferred the feel of the Nikon; not everyone will agree).

The noise issue is one that has been mentioned often with the 50D. The high resolution combined with the sensor size makes it even more important to have good lenses, preferably fast ones so you don't have to use the high ISO so much. I strongly recommend getting very good lenses if you get the 50D. If you know what focal lengths you are most interested in, I'll make some specific recommendations. And of course dpreview.com has pages and pages of (sometimes strongly expressed) opinions on this subject.

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29-09-2009
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Nikon Digi Cameras maybe are The Best...

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29-09-2009
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Tangerine, I'm pretty sure my friend with the 50D had the EF-S 17-55 f2.8 IS USM and he told me it cost him $1100AUD, whereas my other friend bought his Nikkor AFS 17-55mm f2.8 for $1200AUD, so it's only a $100 difference (both bought them second hand). I think even when it comes to the FX lenses, the prices are comparable. However I have no idea about the L series, only that they are very good, and I do agree that Canon has a better range of DX lenses.

Yes, ergonomics are entirely subjective but most people that I've talked to, both Canon and Nikon users, agree that Nikons feel better in the hand and have more intuitive controls.

I have no intent to incite a multi page debate about Nikon vs Canon because both are good (I came very close to buying a 5D MkII) but in this case I just think a D90 is better and cheaper, because as you said, "for most people the cost could well be a significant consideration."

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29-09-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tangerine View Post
I believe the 500n uses EF mount lenses, which will work on the 50D, albeit there is the crop factor that Ryan mentions. This means that, for instance, your 50mm lens will become effectively an 80mm lens. This is not inherently bad; Canon's L lenses are all full frame (aka FX) lenses, and they are excellent and highly recommended for use with the 50D.

If you want one walkaround lens that will serve most purposes, the EF-S 17-55 f2.8 IS USM is generally considered to be very good (though not as well-built as the L lenses). Ryan, you neglected to mention that the Nikon lenses cost significantly more than the Canon lenses where there is an equivalent lens. There are plenty of people who will support your assertion that if cost is no object, Nikkor lenses are better, but for most people the cost could well be a significant consideration.

It can also be argued that in the crop factor (DX) range, Canon's offerings are much more diverse and better than Nikon's, and it's not until you start comparing the FF (FX) lenses that Nikkor has the upper hand.



I'm not entirely sure what you mean when you refer to the ergonomics, but if you mean the comfort of holding the camera in your hands and operating the controls, this is something that to a large degree is subjective. (I have not compared the two cameras you mention, but when I compared a Nikon D60 to a Canon 450D, I also preferred the feel of the Nikon; not everyone will agree).

The noise issue is one that has been mentioned often with the 50D. The high resolution combined with the sensor size makes it even more important to have good lenses, preferably fast ones so you don't have to use the high ISO so much. I strongly recommend getting very good lenses if you get the 50D. If you know what focal lengths you are most interested in, I'll make some specific recommendations. And of course dpreview.com has pages and pages of (sometimes strongly expressed) opinions on this subject.
Wow, that's a lot of great info. Thank you so much for posting. I have a lot to learn about digital cameras before I make a purchase..... especially the lenses. I'm still leaning towards a Canon model because I've owned a few in the past and they have been excellent. I see no real reason to jump ship.


Last edited by CherryBomb01; 29-09-2009 at 08:00 PM.
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29-09-2009
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tangerine, in terms of lenses I'd be interested in... when I used my old Canon SLR I had a 28-80mm (which come with the camera) and an 75-300mm Ultrasonic which I bought later on. I hope that's not too vague. I found those 2 lenses pretty covered everything I needed but I guess now days they are old hat.
I need to do some research...

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29-09-2009
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Team Nikon I have failed you, but I tried my best LOL

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30-09-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Weld View Post
Tangerine, I'm pretty sure my friend with the 50D had the EF-S 17-55 f2.8 IS USM and he told me it cost him $1100AUD, whereas my other friend bought his Nikkor AFS 17-55mm f2.8 for $1200AUD, so it's only a $100 difference (both bought them second hand). I think even when it comes to the FX lenses, the prices are comparable. However I have no idea about the L series, only that they are very good, and I do agree that Canon has a better range of DX lenses.

Yes, ergonomics are entirely subjective but most people that I've talked to, both Canon and Nikon users, agree that Nikons feel better in the hand and have more intuitive controls.

I have no intent to incite a multi page debate about Nikon vs Canon because both are good (I came very close to buying a 5D MkII) but in this case I just think a D90 is better and cheaper, because as you said, "for most people the cost could well be a significant consideration."
I agree there is no point to having a "religious war" between Canon and Nikon, and in any case I am not firmly in either camp; last round I went for the D60 over the 450D, and next round I am leaning towards either a used 40D (may have a line on a good deal) or a 50D. The introduction of the 7D is likely to cause some lightly used 50Ds to appear on the market.

If I was buying Nikon again, the D300s is the one I'd be looking at... but that is more than I want to spend now. I don't doubt that the D90 is very nice.

Buying secondhand lenses can definitely equalize or invert any price hierarchy that exists in the retail/discount market. Prices I have seen for new lenses put the Nikon lenses a little to a lot higher, but that's only strictly applicable to buying new.

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Team Nikon I have failed you, but I tried my best LOL
Nah, you didn't fail, but you did tip your hand.

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Last edited by tangerine; 30-09-2009 at 12:40 AM.
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30-09-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CherryBomb01 View Post
tangerine, in terms of lenses I'd be interested in... when I used my old Canon SLR I had a 28-80mm (which come with the camera) and an 75-300mm Ultrasonic which I bought later on. I hope that's not too vague. I found those 2 lenses pretty covered everything I needed but I guess now days they are old hat.
I need to do some research...
Yes, do as much research as you can stand! There are a lot of lenses out there.

Remember that with the 1.6 crop factor of the 50D (and its relatives), your 28-80 becomes effectively a 44-128. If you like shooting at the wide end of the 28-80, you will want a lens that starts at 17 or 18mm.

Then you need to decide how fast you need it to be, whether you need image stabilization, etc.

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30-09-2009
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Ryan, if it makes you feel any better, I'd most likely buy a top of the range Nikon if I had unlimited funds. To me they've always been the rolls royce of cameras.

I've just been doing some research on the net and I was wondering if this camera lens combo has the crop factor Tangerine has mentioned? Canon EOS 50D 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6 IS lens Kit

Any thoughts at all on this lens with the Canon 50D.... good or bad?
This has given me a headache, all the specs are swinmming in head.

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30-09-2009
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^ Researching cameras and lenses online is probably one of the most excruciating things that I've ever done. I think you should just go to several shops and talk to the pros/play with the camera.

Tangerine, it was fun and games this time but next time it will be a fight to the death! And I will bring my A game*



*this will most likely involve animated gifs and lolcats

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30-09-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CherryBomb01 View Post
Ryan, if it makes you feel any better, I'd most likely buy a top of the range Nikon if I had unlimited funds. To me they've always been the rolls royce of cameras.

I've just been doing some research on the net and I was wondering if this camera lens combo has the crop factor Tangerine has mentioned? Canon EOS 50D 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6 IS lens Kit

Any thoughts at all on this lens with the Canon 50D.... good or bad?
This has given me a headache, all the specs are swinmming in head.
The EOS 50D, as well as the 40D and Nikon D90 are all crop sensor cameras. Any lens you put on these bodies is affected, so to speak, by this sensor size. With Canon, the crop factor is 1.6; with Nikon, it's 1.5. Multiply the focal length by the crop factor to see the full-frame (35mm) equivalent.

There is an in-depth review of the lens on dpreview.com, you can read it here if you want.

To summarize it, this class of zoom, called a "superzoom" because of the very great range of focal lengths it covers, inherently has some compromises. You trade off some image quality for the convenience of having an "all-in-one" lens. It's really up to you if it is worth it.

Specifically, this lens exhibits a fair amount of distortion, especially at the wide end, and a fair amount of chromatic aberration, both of which can be corrected somewhat in software if you are willing to do so.

On the plus size, it has extraordinarily good image stabilization.

The lens does not really allow you to fully appreciate the resolving power of the 50D.

The conclusion quoted directly from dpreview.com:

Quote:
So overall, this lens has to be accepted for what it is: a general purpose solution which allows the photographer not to worry about fiddling around changing lenses when out traveling, but which makes inevitable optical compromises to achieve this goal. Those seeking the ultimate in technical image quality will need to look elsewhere, but as an overall package it's likely as good as any other DSLR superzoom out there. So for users looking for the convenience of such a lens, it's a perfectly good choice.

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