The 4-5 piece French wardrobe

[Ianastar]

Beautiful Stranger - you always pull that stuff off beautifully. Do it. They are gorgeous.

[HiHeels]

Originally Posted by salomelovesjohn

HH, it's such a process, but I've moved away from sales, although I still look b/c you never know when you'll find something amazing!

if i skip the sales, i skip the 10% chance i'll find something great, and 90% chance i'll buy a mistake - the statistics are based on experience.

[salomelovesjohn]

^^^
Good point - the worst is when I buy something online only to find that it invariably doesn't look or fit right. I'm just not sure how other people shop so much for clothing online. I have about a 10% sucess rate there. Also, I must admit many lovely, but never worn items that I really need to Ebay come from sales. Its so odd how paying full price can save you money. Still for some items I've gotten great deals and use out of them, I think the key for me is 1) buying something that works in my existing wardrobe, 2) that I can try on, and 3) that I can return if I don't wear it in 30 days.

[HiHeels]

Originally Posted by salomelovesjohn

^^^
Good point - the worst is when I buy something online only to find that it invariably doesn't look or fit right. I'm just not sure how other people shop so much for clothing online. I have about a 10% sucess rate there. Also, I must admit many lovely, but never worn items that I really need to Ebay come from sales. Its so odd how paying full price can save you money. Still for some items I've gotten great deals and use out of them, I think the key for me is 1) buying something that works in my existing wardrobe, 2) that I can try on, and 3) that I can return if I don't wear it in 30 days.

i have found this to be frustratingly true for me. i still peruse the occasional sale, but much much less than i used to. it just doesn't pay for me. i usually cannot remember to be certain the item fits the three good points you brought up, when i'm in a sale atmosphere. i am either pressured or panicked or my bloodsugar level is low from looking and looking and looking, and by then i'm determined not to come away empty handed so i imagine that something is better than it is.
i'll tell you this though, avoiding sales and paying full price is one way for me to ensure that i have a small wardrobe.
(i guess that's another way that paying full price saves me money.)
but in the past, if i've balked at a highish price tag for something that was perfect, i usually end up scooping up "affordable" random stuff to make myself feel better, and i end up with too much, with things that are not perfect, and i'll have spent nearly as much on all that stuff, instead of perfection.

[cosmogrl5]

^ I completely agree with the posts above. I always thought I was the only one who wasted money on sales by buying things I do not need, that do not fit me right, that I have nothing to go with, etc. just because they were marked down. I decided to put aside a small amount of money from each paycheck (I get paid bi-weekly) and go on 2-3 shopping trips a year with this money to buy just a few things that fit well and that I can use. I have a billion things hanging in my closet that have never been worn (and never will be worn), but gosh darn it, I didn't pay much for any of it! Actually, it depresses me...if I add up all that I bought on sale, I could have bought one or two really amazing pieces.

[fashionista-ta]

^ I am under no illusion that I can buy something without trying it on, or at least being very familiar with how the label fits There's one mid-range place I like to shop ... they have a catalog, but I pretty much always go to the store. I have tried on multiple sweaters in the same size, and there'll be a variation of several inches in the sleeve length. I want to pick which length I want rather than leaving it to random chance

[HiHeels]

salomelovesjohn - i have unfortunately decent success with online purchases. i say "unfortunate" because it only encourages me. lol

cosmogrl5 - love your sense of humor and love your new plan even more! what discipline. and it will really pay off. as you said, you have a lot of stuff that you aren't using. people often say they would rather quantity for variety, than just limiting themselves to 1 or 2 pieces, but i would rather "only" wear 1 or 2, than house (and not wear) dozens. and of course, you will have more than 1 or 2 - i just meant that with the $ spent to buy dozens of mediocrity, 1 or 2 great items can be had, and enjoyed/worn!
and ps, you are really really not alone in the "wasted money on sales" dept.

[cosmogrl5]

^ Thanks HiHeels! I am glad to know I am in good company.

[fashionista-ta]

Just wanted to mention that Marina Rust's article in the new Vogue is about spending less (contemporary level) on 1-2 pieces to take you through the holidays.

My big problem with dressing for the holidays is that I lost a button off my Christmas sweater last year, and so I really really need to find the spare, or I can't wear it without replacing all of them. The button is somewhere in my storeroom (I think ). (Now I store all my spares in my sewing basket, but I bought the sweater before I started doing that, and clearly I wasn't very smart when I came across the spare button last.) I went in there & took a look around and picked a box I "think" it's in ... I have been going through it over the past week. Good Lord ... it's got papers I wrote in college, files I took with me when I left the place I worked in 1992 I think it was , including some that weren't even mine but belonged to the person long gone who used to sit at my desk , newsletters from the apartment where I lived before I bought my house & much, much more. Paper is my weakness This is what's known as stagnant clutter, people ...

On another note, I have my eye on a very cute pair of wooly slippers to complete my wintry (at home) wardrobe.

[laika]

ta-ta....you have a Christmas sweater?

Just wanted to pipe in about sales, because they seem to be getting a bad rap in this thread. I think sales can be great, if you don't wait for the 75% off dregs of the season. Case in point....last week, I finally went to try on a dress that I've been eying all season--found it, in my size, and found out that it was eligible for 40% off pre-sale. Needless to say, it came home with me, and dress and I are now happily in love... In my euphoric state, I went on to find two more items from my beginning of season wishlist--a cardigan (perfect size and color), and a top, that I had actually pre-ordered in August for full price, but never received due to a stock problem. So I wound up getting all three items for 40% off and, being utterly pleased with their perfection (cost-wise and selection-wise), I feel no compulsion to shop the sales any further. This seems to be the happy medium for me--I can't always pay full price to get exactly what I want; and I know I won't get exactly what I want if I wait for some crazy bargain...but being reasonably patient allows me to get the perfect thing and pay less for it.

I'm starting to think patience is really the key to this whole thing, actually...a wardrobe can really take years...

[salomelovesjohn]

^^
I'll have to look for that article! Thanks.

I too have paper issues. Keeping articles on various topics is probably my biggest problem.

Laika, good point about sales and getting things that you wanted anyways. I still shop sales, I'm just not getting so many items per a sale. Nothing so far this season, but tomorrow I'm going shopping so we'll see.

[salomelovesjohn]

Neat article today from the wsj.com.



Style Showdown:
$1,000 Sweater Faces $100 Rival
November 29, 2007; Page D1

It's one of the abiding mysteries of fashion: Is it really worth paying $1,100 for a white cotton blouse or $750 for one of the turtleneck sweaters we see in high-end stores and magazines?
If the labels fell off, would these basic items still feel like they're worth so much? The question arises more often these days, as stores like Zara and H&M thrive on selling inexpensive fashions that resemble those of high-end designers like Chanel and Dior.
A $950 cashmere sweater from Brunello Cucinelli
With the holiday gift-giving season upon us, I decided to put a couple of standard sweaters to the test. While I anticipated differences in style and quality, I was unprepared for the political issues that arose from my study of these two sweaters. What started out as a look at fashion choices turned into a lesson on globalization.
For this test, we chose two cashmere sweaters from clothiers with excellent reputations for quality and service, one at each end of the price spectrum. One came from Lands' End and cost $99.50 before tax and shipping. The other, from Italian luxury cashmere maker Brunello Cucinelli, cost $950 before tax and the valet parking fee at Saks Fifth Avenue in Beverly Hills.
The sweaters are outwardly similar: long-sleeved black mock turtlenecks, knitted with two-ply yarn, which means each string is made of two strands that have been twisted together. Both sweaters are made of cashmere combed from Mongolian goats, which are said to grow fine, long hairs to survive the tough winters. The long hair leads to less pilling, which is a real sweater killer.
And both garments arrived with deficiencies. My Lands' End sweater felt stiff and glossy. After wearing it twice, I tossed it in the delicate cycle of my washing machine, and it emerged soft and supple.
I chose a style called a "cashmere tee" that is trimmer and more feminine than the company's core big and snuggly cashmeres. New this fall, the mock turtle is cut to layer under a jacket. Despite the fresh styling, it lacks sophistication, and the fabric tends to wrinkle, particularly at the crook of the arm. Still, it's an attractive, basic sweater -- soft, comfy and, hey, the price was right. According to Michele Casper, a spokeswoman for Lands' End, it should last for many years. If not, she noted, I can exchange the item or get a refund. "Everything we sell at Lands' End is guaranteed. Period."
The Cucinelli sweater has a springier weave that drapes gracefully and hasn't wrinkled or bagged at stretch points. It was a little more uniformly soft than the Lands' End fabric. While all Mongolian goat hair is prized, prices vary according to quality, and some Italian manufacturers pride themselves on buying the best grades of cashmere at auction -- one reason for some sweaters' higher prices. The sweater also has subtly stylish details -- such as small buttons at the back of the neck that make it easy to pull the sweater over a hairdo and makeup.
That's a nice feature, but when I got it home, I discovered the sweater had unraveled at the teardrop opening at the nape of the neck. This required a tiresome trip back to Saks, where they repaired the tear, telling me that if it happens again, I should bring it right back. At that price, they can count on it. But Cucinelli should probably incorporate some sort of reinforcement at that pressure point. A spokesman for the designer called the flaw a "fluke" and said Cucinelli has a damage-return rate of just 0.005%.
The standout facets of the Cucinelli sweater are sleeves that taper at the forearm and then flare at the wrist, and layers of silk chiffon that have been hand-sewn at the neck and wrists. My friend Roberta tried it on. "It does feel really nice on my neck," she said, noodling her head around. These style details drew attention as I wore the sweater (the Lands' End sweater garnered no compliments). But people looked stunned if I told them the price.
Clockwise, from upper left: back view of Brunello Cucinelli's sweater; a detail of the neck (top); Lands' End's sweater (right), the Italian factory that made the Cucinelli sweater; raw cashmere.
So there were style differences between the luxurious designer sweater and its counterpart, however solidly made. Another sort of distinction emerged as I learned how each sweater was manufactured. The goat hairs took very different paths after being bundled into bales and taken to auction in Mongolia.
The label of the Lands' End sweater says "Made in China." Lands' End gave me an extensive primer on its Mongolian yarns. But it turned out that the company isn't involved in that part of the process. It purchases the finished sweaters from a factory in China -- and it's the factory that buys cashmere at auction. Ms. Casper said the Chinese factory spins, cards, combs, and dyes the yarn and weaves it into garments according to Lands' End's specifications. Lands' End, she said, tests the results and requires the factory to meet "all compliances" from Sears Holding Corp., which owns Lands' End. She declined to elaborate or to divulge the name of the factory or even the region of China where it's located. She did say: "The cashmere factories are very clean and feature all state-of-the art, updated equipment. The employees feel honored to be employed there."
I was troubled by the company's reticence about the factory that made my sweater. This came against a backdrop of news stories out of China's industrial sector that included recalls of toys, toothpaste and other consumer products. Many people have seen film and photos of Chinese factory workers living in sparse dormitories far from home and working long hours. Concerns about Chinese labor and manufacturing standards have led to the recent increase in "Made in the USA" labels on products made here.
All this contrasts sharply with Brunello Cucinelli, a company founded in 1978 by 54-year-old designer Brunello Cucinelli. Both the Saks saleswoman and Massimo Caronna, Cucinelli's U.S. spokesman and owner of Italian fashion distributor IMC Group, eagerly elaborated on the manufacturing. Mr. Caronna even invited me to visit the factory where my sweater was made, in the tiny Italian village of Solomeo in Umbria, though I didn't make the trip.
According to him, the goat hairs in my sweater traveled in bales from Mongolia to one of several factories in Italy where it was made into yarn. Cucinelli buys about 70% of its yarn from the Italian luxury thread purveyor Cariaggi.
The yarn was then shipped to the Cucinelli factory, which is in a 17th-century castle. Each of its 1,500 employees has a key, says Mr. Caronna. They work each day from 8 a.m. until 1 p.m., breaking for a 90-minute lunch. Many go home for lunch, but Mr. Caronna says that those who stay are served a free three-course meal cooked up by three local women who shop for fresh groceries every morning. Employees return to work from 2:30 until 6 p.m. and then head home.
Mr. Cucinelli wanted to improve on the conditions he saw his father endure as a farm laborer, Mr. Caronna says. The designer has donated some company profits to improvements in Solomeo, such as restoring the town square, building a local school and, most recently, constructing a town theater. The company, which competes with Loro Piana and also owns the Gunex and Riva Monti fashion lines, expects revenue of $163 million in 2007, Mr. Caronna said.
The Italian manufacturing process also explains a little more about the cost of my $950 sweater. Hand work allows sophisticated design details, like the chiffon, that would be impossible in a garment made entirely by machine. And 25% of the factory employees are devoted to quality control. Before leaving the factory, every item is washed by hand -- one reason the Cucinelli sweater arrived softer than the Lands' End.
Lands' End won't tell us details such as whether its Chinese factory has paid for local schools or serves its workers free three-course meals. But it's safe to say that the Cucinelli is the superior sweater when it comes to style, quality and global social awareness.
Whether it's worth nearly 10 times the price, though, is a matter for you and your wallet.
Email Christina.Binkley@wsj.com

[fashionista-ta]

^ Great article--and I think it is worth 10x the price. But hey, if you don't care if your sweater's ugly & was made by slave labor, then Land's End is for you

[fashionista-ta]

Originally Posted by laika

ta-ta....you have a Christmas sweater?

I wondered if that would alarm anyone Decades-old clutter, no problem--Christmas sweater, oh dear

Yes, I do ... I bought it some years ago and now it's tradition It's lovely hand-knit royal blue pima cotton intarsia ... Santa makes an appearance I believe that kitsch has its place in my life

[fashionista-ta]

Originally Posted by salomelovesjohn

^^
I'll have to look for that article! Thanks.

I too have paper issues. Keeping articles on various topics is probably my biggest problem.

Laika, good point about sales and getting things that you wanted anyways. I still shop sales, I'm just not getting so many items per a sale. Nothing so far this season, but tomorrow I'm going shopping so we'll see.

Btw, I may have lied about the issue the article's in--it may possibly be November. Both are floating around my house

I think the real key on sales is not to lower your standards. And really that applies across the board. True ... you do have a bit different expectations at Ann Taylor than you do at Bottega Veneta ... but as mentioned in the article salome posted, just because people might ooh and aah at the low price you paid for something, doesn't make up for the fact it's ugly.

As laika said, these are things she wanted anyway, the fact that they're on sale is just a lovely bonus.