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26-08-2006
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not all skirt/ ankleboot combos make you look stumpy, I didn't say that

and I'm not saying everyone should wear little tops, jeans and stilettos

I don't dress "sexy" I dress conservatively. I wear mostly slacks and sweaters, and in summer, mens style buttondown shirts with jeans, or simple (covered up) t shirts with a line skirts- Yes I love stilettos but that's not nescessarily what everyone should wear.

I do feel however that everyone can look good regardless of what style of clothing they are wearing-be it 80s or vintage-y or rocker, or avant garde or whatever it is

- and I think people should look as good as they possibly can

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Last edited by stilettogirl84; 26-08-2006 at 08:22 AM.
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26-08-2006
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some of us think we look good if we convey style, not just present our slimmest possible silhouette. that's all some of us are saying. you question why anyone would wear a floaty top if it conceals slim hips because then, god forbid, some style-blind shmoo on the street will walk past us and have a half-second impression of us as having bigger hips then we do before forgetting us altogether. i don't dress for him. i dress for myself, because maybe i fell in love with a gorgeous floaty blouse and know that it looks great with jeans or whatever and i put them together and feel beautiful and add my other favorite things to either enhance or contrast the romantic feeling (flats or converse, for example) and then i put my hair in a bun and add a ribbon, or wear it down, and then a pick a stronger lipstick then usual and leave the rest of my face bare and feel wonderful. you can't take that from me or convince me that i should wear a slim jcrew sweater and let zero creative, expressive juices flow. black looks best with my coloring, so i should stop wearing anything else and just completely supress all my personal style choices because i was born with certain color eyes or a certain size waist? that's crazy to me. i've been super blessed with a hyper metabolism, but i adore and revere lynn yaeger for her personality and self-expression in fashion. every seen her? to me she is not committing social suicide when she gets dressed in the morning - she is sharing some of herself with me and making my world more interesting, and THAT's how i judge her and respect her. i'm interested in her and my similar-minded peers and not the opinions of people who think every day is a wet-t-shirt contest and you win or lose based on how your ankles measure up to someone else's. i think we're just not all approaching this from the same position so we just won't agree, but try to understand that not everyone is trying to accomplish the same thing in their appearance/clothing. when i see someone dressing to display her body, i review her that way, i do not critique her style because i rarely see evidence of any, but i will acknowledge and appreciate if she has an amazing body. i'd rather be friends with and talk to someone who looks like lynn yaeger though, and i would rather have people want to talk to me because i'm interesting instead of a perfect 10 body or whatever. it's just a matter of superficial versus intellectual.

in short, there isn't one universal definition of "looking as good as they possibly can."

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26-08-2006
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It can get annoying when people who are not into fashion diss choices that are made. Usually I am considered to be one of the better-dressed people at school. But one day I took a huge risk and went for a go-go inspired look-a lot of people found it to be too risky. It was a pair of shorts (nothing too short), crocheted stockings, 4" chunky heels, a t-shirt, and a newsboy hat with a flower pin. It was, however, a risk, which is something that a lot of people are not willing to take. Also since I am larger than some people (a size 12 US) I get a lot of people on the streets who say that I should be covered up completely. It hurts to know that women with meat on the bones cannot be considered sexy, but then I realize that these are teenage guys who think that only women out of the urban mags are sexy.

That being said, I think a big crime is when women who are not model-skinny try to wear those kinds of looks. There is a look to flatter everyone, and it's a case of picking and choosing what works and looks best (and feels best too). I think that as long as it makes you feel good, and it's not too ugly/kitschy/retro, you should wear it.

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27-08-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiHeels
some of us think we look good if we convey style, not just present our slimmest possible silhouette. that's all some of us are saying. you question why anyone would wear a floaty top if it conceals slim hips because then, god forbid, some style-blind shmoo on the street will walk past us and have a half-second impression of us as having bigger hips then we do before forgetting us altogether. i don't dress for him. i dress for myself, because maybe i fell in love with a gorgeous floaty blouse and know that it looks great with jeans or whatever and i put them together and feel beautiful and add my other favorite things to either enhance or contrast the romantic feeling (flats or converse, for example) and then i put my hair in a bun and add a ribbon, or wear it down, and then a pick a stronger lipstick then usual and leave the rest of my face bare and feel wonderful. you can't take that from me or convince me that i should wear a slim jcrew sweater and let zero creative, expressive juices flow. black looks best with my coloring, so i should stop wearing anything else and just completely supress all my personal style choices because i was born with certain color eyes or a certain size waist? that's crazy to me. i've been super blessed with a hyper metabolism, but i adore and revere lynn yaeger for her personality and self-expression in fashion. every seen her? to me she is not committing social suicide when she gets dressed in the morning - she is sharing some of herself with me and making my world more interesting, and THAT's how i judge her and respect her. i'm interested in her and my similar-minded peers and not the opinions of people who think every day is a wet-t-shirt contest and you win or lose based on how your ankles measure up to someone else's. i think we're just not all approaching this from the same position so we just won't agree, but try to understand that not everyone is trying to accomplish the same thing in their appearance/clothing. when i see someone dressing to display her body, i review her that way, i do not critique her style because i rarely see evidence of any, but i will acknowledge and appreciate if she has an amazing body. i'd rather be friends with and talk to someone who looks like lynn yaeger though, and i would rather have people want to talk to me because i'm interesting instead of a perfect 10 body or whatever. it's just a matter of superficial versus intellectual.

in short, there isn't one universal definition of "looking as good as they possibly can."

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27-08-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stilettogirl84
most people in the world are quick to judge

--If your cool floaty dress makes your hips look gargantuon- well people don't know that they arent. They just assume you're fat.
--If you're trendy ankle boot /skirt combo makes your legs look stumpy- well people just assume they are.

What other people see is, to them- what you really are.They do not know and can't read your mind
They may pick up on your cool girl rocker vibe-

but they'll still think you're a cool girl rocker with fat hips and stumpy legs
and I cannot comprehend why anyone would want to give that impression
Well as long as they think you are cool, why would a bigger hip/ stumpier legs still matter? As long as you feel comfotable in your skin, who cares what others think?

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27-08-2006
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I dunno, but I don't think that being stylish or experimenting has to be unflattering. You just have to be careful and choose pieces that fit your style, as well as make you look the best you can, you know?

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27-08-2006
  52
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**this is a fantastic thread and a fantastic discussion...
you are all making very thoughtful comments and it is SO interesting to read everyone's points of view...
...

Hi Heels-
that is one of the more thoughtful posts i have ever read on tFS...
and i def agree with your assessment..
superficial v. intellectual approaches...
*i am not going to judge which is better or worse..
because i think it is interesting to try to understand one anothers' points of view..


what i find-
i think that if you are insecure about the way you look...or what size you are..
you make a greater effort to look slimmer...it becomes more of a priority...and that is your starting point when you are deciding what to wear...'how can i look as slim as i possible can?'

but i think that if you are already slim..
it really isn't as much of an issue...
you don't have to TRY to look slim if you already are...
so your starting point can be a LOT of other things....


tall, slim and BORING?????????????????????????????........
boring?!?!?!?!?!!!?!?!?!!??!?!?!?!?!!?!??!?!?!?!?! ?!??!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!??
DEATH......

save boring for workout clothes...and around the house....
street clothes should be fun and make you feel good!!!...

what they should look like depends on what makes YOU feel good...
imho...


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27-08-2006
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Oh I definitely do think about the figure factor..par example, I just couldn't bring myself to wear short-shorts this Summer. It just didn't feel..I don't know, right - I suppose, for me. However longer shorts I did wear. I like short skirts though, so that's a different story. I tend to avoid tight and spandex-y things, esp. t-shirts. And I don't wear skin tight skinnies - you know, the ones that you can barely pull onto your legs. But those are my own personal no-no's and I am ready to wear something that doesn't really make me look slimmer by any means. Once my mother's friend said - when I turned up to the beach in a bikini - oh my, you're quite slim in reality aren't you! I wish you wouldn't conceal it underneath all those layers and blazers of yours. I like baggy shirts and tops a lot, even though I realise that if I wore something much tighter I'd look more 'attractive' esp. to some male eyes..but it's not something I try to achieve. I'm more concerned with how I present myself overall vs how people see my various body parts. Anyway basically what I really want to say is that I completely agree with HiHeels. :p

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27-08-2006
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^ I too am loving this discussion ... I think an important point to bear in mind is that there is no one right answer to the question "How can I look my best today?" Our varied approaches to answering this question make us who we are, and I celebrate that diversity!

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27-08-2006
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it was from the heart.

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27-08-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stilettogirl84
most people in the world are quick to judge
True, but in my world anyway, most people are quicker to admire than to judge. And if there are people who automatically assume that those who wear non-fitted clothing, like a "cool, floaty dress," have something to hide, I think that's a little sad and narrow-minded. It's also a different thing altogether when you see someone walk down the street in a cool, floaty dress - there's movement and grace that aren't captured when someone posts a picture on an internet forum. And I think that's why I get just as many compliments (and unfortunately, lewd comments) when I'm wearing a lightweight flowy "sack" dress as I do when I'm wearing a fitted tee and jeans.

All I can say is, thank goodness designers don't design primarily to flatter a woman's body! We'd all be stuck with Azzedine Alaias and Herve Legers... not that there's anything wrong with their designs, but I'd take Cristobal Balenciaga's bubble shapes, Ann Demeulemeester's masterful layering, or Chloe's romantic floatiness over them any day.



And that's my two cents. Great thread, by the way, I enjoyed reading all the replies!

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27-08-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kokopuff
but I'd take Cristobal Balenciaga's bubble shapes, Ann Demeulemeester's masterful layering, or Chloe's romantic floatiness over them any day.
yum, yum and more yum.

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27-08-2006
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I love Balenciaga and "cool, floaty dresses" myself. I don't think the point of this thread was to say, "Would you rather be cool or boring?". I think that what stilettogirl84 was trying to ask was how much thought do you put into presenting your body as well as your style?

It's not like I walk around in a burka 24/7. I love to experiment and try new things as much as the next person. I just also take my figure into consideration as well. For example, I love empire waisted tops. They can be very flattering, but they can also make you look pregnant. So when I'm shopping, I look for one that has a flat seam along the waistband rather than one with a more pleated seam, which can add extra volume.

I LOVE experimental fashion. My top three favorite designers are Balenciaga (Nicolas AND Cristobal), Viktor&Rolf, and Txell Miras. All of them are wildly experimental, and that's beyond fabulous! They're why I love fashion, and am soooo friggin' addicted! And while I may adore super-skinny jeans, I'm quite aware of the limitations of my figure. So while I may lust after them, I choose not to wear them because they don't suit my shape. It's great that other girls can wear them and look oh-so cool, but, hey, that's life.

I know that I probably sound bitchy, but I'm honestly not! I'm just trying to present a different point of view

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27-08-2006
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a good meaty discussion - i just read thru all three pages! from my perspective, it seems like there are at least 2 different layers to the discussion, mostly related to the different things that 'flattering' means to people - one group (and the person who started the thread, i think) seems to be talking about 'flattering' as in working with challenging physical proportions and so on, and others seem to be talking about 'flattering' as in trying to look as hot and attractive, or as tall and slim as possible (and most seem to champion personal expression over cookie-cutter attractiveness).

i'm in the first group, having a lot of 'challenges' with my body type. from the waist up i'm thin and angular, from the waist down i'm curvy (or 'stocky' if i gain weight). To me, when i say i dress to 'flatter' my body, i mean clothing that is graceful, treats me well. it's not about showing off or trying to impress others or look hot - if i don't pay attention to cut and shape, my body can look completely weird and mismatched, so this is a definate priority!! some people have more factors like this to consider, and some have less, and i think it affects how one sees this topic.

on the other hand, i don't say 'no' to trends or shapes across the board though, for me or anyone else.
like ta-ta said, if you can tweak it right, a lot of things can work but it takes a good eye and patience. i think you have to realize that your body is the medium through which you're interpreting any aesthetic, and go more for the overall look than getting caught up in wanting to wear the exact brand of skinny pants that's being promoted everywhere...

i think understanding how your body and clothes interact is a lost art, to a certain degree. people used to work with tailors and dressmakers more in the past, and they educated themselves. on the sartorialist's blog he's always going on about this, recently pointing out the perfection of cary grant's tailoring in north by northwest. i think all of the great 30's and 40's movie stars were amazing in the way they dressed, especially the men, who were much more idiosyncratic-looking than the women and had more challenges.

and i have to bring up diana vreeland, just to add some spice to this discussion of what's flattering. i think most people in the U.S. would be itching to give her a makeover, complete with soft highlighted hair and natural, dewey foundation and maybe even a nose job. it's obvious that she hated that kind of bland idea of 'attractiveness' and at the same time from her memoir, you find that she knew her face and body incredibly well and always dressed to make the most of her looks. in other words, her clothes flattered her, down to minute details of tailoring, but without sacrificing her original style for some mainstream idea of what's 'attractive'. although i'm a 'natural type' and don't go for much drama in my style, i'm with her in spirit in how she navigated these issues.

so for me it's yes to flattering clothes, yes to different trends and styles and yes to creativity and personal style.. but for me, flattering cuts are always the base, the part i struggle with the most, so that i can be more free with the rest.

(and of course the semi-annoying part is that when i get it right, people say 'it's easy for you, you're slim' etc)

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28-08-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maiden voyage
it seems like there are at least 2 different layers to the discussion, mostly related to the different things that 'flattering' means to people - one group (and the person who started the thread, i think) seems to be talking about 'flattering' as in working with challenging physical proportions and so on, and others seem to be talking about 'flattering' as in trying to look as hot and attractive
yes you understand what I am trying to say quite well

I think it's hurtful and untrue to say that just because I do care what my body looks like in my clothes, that makes me somehow less intellignet than people who do not care, or dress without that consideration.

I do not dress for the purpose of attracting men. I do not dress to look "sexy" or "hot". Instead, I try to create a balance. To create a pleasing proportion-

but it is not just the clothes which have to be proportionate to each other
Clothing is not like a statue or a painting. It is only beautiful insomuch that it makes it's wearer's body beautiful as well. It is the interaction between the clothing and the wearers body which can be attractive (not sexually, but like good art) or it can be disproportionate and ugly

Like Maiden Voyage Said
Quote:
Originally Posted by maiden voyage
i don't say 'no' to trends or shapes across the board though, for me or anyone else.... if you can tweak it right, a lot of things can work but it takes a good eye and patience. i think you have to realize that your body is the medium through which you're interpreting any aesthetic

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