[Inaya]

wiwu, thank you so much for those Hannelore images, I hadn't seen a couple of them before. she is always great.

[luckyme]

what about Lynn Yaeger? is this just wacky or avant garde? she has always confused me as far as definition of style goes...educate me.

also loved the picture of the fashion school, working on a design that seems to have the intent of being fashion forward.

the girl with the gorgeous flaming hair, is this a style that can be conceived as avant even though the hair is the main focal point?

thesatorialist.com

[wheneveriwakeup]

Thanks for the karma everyone!!

I wouldn't call Lynn Yeager avant garde... not at all...
She definitely does not look like the average person, but nothing about her look is forward, imo... she hasn't styled her clothing in a progressive manner...
She is also missing a very vital aspect akin to the whole movement... simplicity...
her make-up alone is more 'costume' than avant garde...

Flaming redhead, while very cool looking, isn't avant garde either, imo...
Her look is very 'of the moment'... she still looks good though..

Two ideas that don't really correlate with avant gardism are 'nostaligia' & 'trendy'...
Nostalgia, especially, is an idea that always manages to be labeled as 'avant garde'...
If someone only wears vintage, ppl tend to deem that person's style avant garde b/c they're the only individual in their circle of friends doing it. However, if the individual is taking these nostalgic pieces and breathing new life into them by way of styling and subversiveness... making the piece timeless, if you will, that is avant garde...

As far as personal style goes... it's all about the way items are blended together... there is no template..

** Question for you all...
Would you all call Tilda Swinton's style avant garde? What about Johnny Depp?

[softgrey]

i agree lynn yaeger is just wacky...
gotta love her ...

yes- i would call tilda swinton avant garde...often...
also kate blanchett...very often...

johnny depp also has his moments...
but more often than not i would just call him eccentric and sexxxyyy........

[chanelnumber5]

Quote:

Originally Posted by softgrey but i think that true avant garde style goes even beyond fashion forward... it's doing something that no one else is doing yet...anywhere... it's pulling stuff out of the sky...or out of your imagination...or from the bottom of your soul...[/B]

I love this idea, the concept of emotions and something "deeper" influencing avant garde style. It is so...refreshing when so much of fashion has been reduced to wearing such-and-such a logo in the most obvious way or owning the latest it bag in every colour - I guess avant garde can be seen as a 'movement' against such things.

Thank you to everyone whose posted pics

[runner]

it needs a certain kind of destructive energy that may basically be the same thing as what wiw referred to as creative energy.
it is based on things that have already been there before you, like tradition.
you have to know them well in the first place because, without the subjects of destruction, you cannot destroy/create anything.
you understand what they are, then some of you might come to have some drive, or volition against them. and you learn to see your own direction you wish.
so mostly the avantgarde are able to be a classic, orthodox dresser beautifully too, if they had to. maybe they have mastered the fundamentals. that's part of why instant avantgarde is impossible.

[BerlinRocks]

^ nice post !

Quote:

what about Lynn Yaeger? is this just wacky or avant garde? she has always confused me as far as definition of style goes...educate me.

anyone read her article in the last vogue us ?
insane !
...
but i'm going off-topic !

[gius]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inaya indeed... I would say that most people who are truly of an avant garde style are not lovers of the spotlight. the want for attention, opinons and acceptance, imo, is basically the antithesis of someone who is avant garde.

and maybe this is also a reason a lot of the photos in this thread are generally black and white or beige. neutrals..

colour doesn't hide anyone.
it's like when i am on the bus and take a red book out of my bag. everybody turns to look at it.

what does everyone think??



i was reading through the older posts before i saw the last page in the thread, with all the colour...
i really love this one http://www.thefashionspot.com/forums...3&d=1242320247 the jacket even matches her hair.

[wheneveriwakeup]

Quote:

Originally Posted by runner it needs a certain kind of destructive energy that may basically be the same thing as what wiw referred to as creative energy. it is based on things that have already been there before you, like tradition. you have to know them well in the first place because, without the subjects of destruction, you cannot destroy/create anything. you understand what they are, then some of you might come to have some drive, or volition against them. and you learn to see your own direction you wish. so mostly the avantgarde are able to be a classic, orthodox dresser beautifully too, if they had to. maybe they have mastered the fundamentals. that's part of why instant avantgarde is impossible.

That is very true. I feel that most avant-gardist are very open ppl. In order to truly formulate a style of this caliber, one must be very aware of not only what is behind them, but also what is in front of them as well as what is to come. That also goes back to the whole idea of ppl believing something is avant garde due to a lack of knowledge about the genuine origin it hails from.. ex: Kate Lanphear's style

Good pt. about the very minimal, but unexpected use of color, Gius.
Perhaps in the mind of an avant gardist, texture and silhouette take precedence over color...?
I feel that texture and silhouette have a more permeating affect than color in regards to this style of dress...
Color can be so haste and all-consuming when you think about it... the exact opposite of what an avant garde dresser strives for...
Texture and silhouette, however, are two elements that will cling to the memory and resonate at all levels.. at the emotional core as well as the mental core..
it can truly be a feast for the senses... it's an enigma, whereas excessive amounts of color may just give everything away... much too soon.

Color is there to support and/or highlight rather than lead the way...

[wheneveriwakeup]

I think Marni designer Consuelo Castiglioni's style is avant garde...
She is elegantly esoteric..

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source: style, zimbio, thesartorialist

[uberwench]

I think I finally get the concept of this thread...
The difference between eccentricity and being avant garde is that being avant garde is quieter, less attention-seeking. It's being different, but by accident. Eccentrics are different because they try to be; the avant garde happens to be different, but is following its own momentum.

Or, at least, that might just be the line we draw to rationalise the fact that there are some looks that seem to work in a full, sophisticated way; and there are others we just don't. Could be entirely arbitrary.

That said, I love all of the pictures in this thread (apart from maybe some of the guys with the very bright colour, perhaps a bit too 'NOW' for me). So maybe there is something intangible but real which we're tapping into here?

I've been thinking a lot about the way I dress recently and find that I'm torn between aiming for something beautiful, artsy and which I will look back on in ten years and still find balanced and not dated... and between looking fashionable, so that people will know I'm so fashionable and be like, oh, yah, you're so cool, yah? . I feel like I'm maturing and hopefully I will break out of the chrysalis of topshop into the avant garde... or at least, halfway there.

That's an interesting question, especially for the people who don't work in fashion -can you be avant garde and still have a practical wardrobe? The Hannelore pictures make me think yes.

[wheneveriwakeup]

Quote:

Originally Posted by uberwench I think I finally get the concept of this thread... The difference between eccentricity and being avant garde is that being avant garde is quieter, less attention-seeking. It's being different, but by accident. Eccentrics are different because they try to be; the avant garde happens to be different, but is following its own momentum. Or, at least, that might just be the line we draw to rationalise the fact that there are some looks that seem to work in a full, sophisticated way; and there are others we just don't. Could be entirely arbitrary. That said, I love all of the pictures in this thread (apart from maybe some of the guys with the very bright colour, perhaps a bit too 'NOW' for me). So maybe there is something intangible but real which we're tapping into here? I've been thinking a lot about the way I dress recently and find that I'm torn between aiming for something beautiful, artsy and which I will look back on in ten years and still find balanced and not dated... and between looking fashionable, so that people will know I'm so fashionable and be like, oh, yah, you're so cool, yah? . I feel like I'm maturing and hopefully I will break out of the chrysalis of topshop into the avant garde... or at least, halfway there. That's an interesting question, especially for the people who don't work in fashion -can you be avant garde and still have a practical wardrobe? The Hannelore pictures make me think yes.

Nothing the avant gardist does is by accident. A lot of thought and conscious effort goes into every aspect of their style.
This style of dress is one that requires lots of thinking + pondering...
very cerebral as well as organic...
However, because it is such a personal, subjective experience, the avant gardist never looks overt or fussy...
because it is their natural disposition to be dressed as they are..

Eccentrics definitely want to be different, too. Some want to seek attn and others really don't give a damn. However, unlike an avant gardist, Eccentrics never really capture that sense of timeless. I feel this happens because they are mostly hellbent on setting themselves apart from the 'now'. Whereas avant gardists aren't really following a scale of time... their instincts and motives are from within.... it's somewhat of a war raging with themselves... to do what has not been done and never repeat themselves... it has nothing to do with society or what society may think of what they're doing...

You can definitely be avant garde and still have a practical wardrobe. As softgrey mentioned, most avant gardist have many classic pieces in their wardrobes. The classic pieces serve as a basis... like clay that is ready to be molded into something subversive + fresh by way of styling and/or the aid/support of garments specifically derived from the science of avant gardism as well as counteractive garments... two elements, that, otherwise, would never have been paired together...
ex - mixing Yohji with J.Crew & vintage pieces.. but in a thoughtful, elegant, timeless manner... one that defies the trends and satiates the desire to find new light in a dim surrounding...

Uberwench, you can shop wherever you want! There are no restrictions! That is the beauty of it... it's all about what you do with the items... and how far you're willing to push your mind and bend the rules...

[softgrey]

it seems that we should have a link to the japanese avant-garde thread in D&C posted here...

lots of amazing info, interviews and images here...
enjoy...


http://www.thefashionspot.com/forums...rde-25936.html

[fourboltmain]

Loving this thread. I only skimmed the first couple pages, now I may even be so bold as to subscribe. I'm bust trying to tie avant gardism to music and art without being pretentious or hi-jacking the thread...

[softgrey]

wiw- you seem to have an excellent grasp of this entire concept...

tFS member petite lucille recently posted a cute shot of herself in WAYWT...
very cool use of colour...
i will have to pull it over here ..