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02-08-2012
  31
Power to the 99%
 
fashionista-ta's Avatar
 
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^ I guess the question is, trust them for what? To choose something for you, or to have your back or pull you from a burning car?

I like spending time with people who have taste, taste for food at a restaurant, taste for art at a museum ... but you can have character without taste, or one kind of taste and not another. I have foodie friends who have terrible taste in clothes ... I don't want to limit my experience of other people by insisting that they all have taste and discernment in many different areas before I can associate with them. If I put these kinds of standards in place, I think it would really un-enrich my life, not to mention making it impossible for me to associate with my coworkers

I keep protein bars in the car, and when I see people with signs asking for help, I check out their faces. If I'm good with what I see, I ask them if they want one. I remember one man with a long white beard who thanked me in a really beautiful way ... he was just a perfect example of how to be thankful for whatever you're receiving in this moment. I really don't remember what he was wearing, I only remember him and where he was, but I think it's safe to say he wasn't well dressed. If I had been judging him based on his clothes and taste, I never would have had that beautiful encounter with another human being.

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02-08-2012
  32
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if i had a friend or had a peer who loved justin bieber or had similiar "taste" in music. i would seriously question their judgement, taste/sanity. it leads me to believe that the person cannot differentiate good from bad.

similarly, no taste in music/fashion/art troubles me. why shouldn't i look at philistines askance?

i would even go as far to say i consider philistines dangerous to society in my view.

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02-08-2012
  33
don't look down
 
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Given how many 'philistines' there are in society, any person is probably better off being friends with them rather than finding reasons to set themselves apart, because self-engineered isolation is more damaging than generic tastes.

You can never have too many friends and positive connections in life. A builder who never reads a book but who can create a beautiful home is someone worth knowing, even if he spends his life looking like he just stepped away from a cement mixer, and insists on playing the greatest hits of Genesis as often as he can.
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02-08-2012
  34
Power to the 99%
 
fashionista-ta's Avatar
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucy92 View Post
if i had a friend or had a peer who loved justin bieber or had similiar "taste" in music. i would seriously question their judgement, taste/sanity. it leads me to believe that the person cannot differentiate good from bad.

similarly, no taste in music/fashion/art troubles me. why shouldn't i look at philistines askance?

i would even go as far to say i consider philistines dangerous to society in my view.
It's certainly your right, but it will limit you.

Obviously Justin Bieber has an audience, much of it probably very young. As they grow up, probably many of them will likely continue to have a soft spot for his music. To me, that says they will have a taste for nostalgia. Nothing bad about that.

I noticed that my own taste in music changed fairly radically when I turned 30. Before that, I couldn't tolerate country music at all. Afterwards, I found it kind of interesting, amusing, and tolerable. Before, I liked alternative. After, I found its rhythms unsettling and not the music I wanted to spend time with. I was the same person at 29 that I was at 31. Same except different. People are welcome to judge me, but there is no one right, no one definition of good taste. One can also have taste without character. I feel people who fall in that category have really limited usefulness, and in my view they present a far greater danger to society than 'Philistines.'

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03-08-2012
  35
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^ i was only referencing my immediate peers however/folks my own age. i wouldnt begrudge a small child who grew out of their justin bieber taste because they didnt know any better...or the homeless.

i have often used "fashion" clues to make judgement calls that i believed affected my health or the health of those that i loved.

i asked to see another veterinarian at an animal hospital after the one that was assigned to us dressed, in my view, unbecomingly and odd. her hair was straggly and unkempt. she wore a scunchie with dated, worn clothes. if she cannot keep up with her own appearance how could i expect her to keep up with the latest health news and advances in the vet field? if she doesnt care about her own hair then why should she care about my pet's coat or appearance?

similarly, i asked to see another doctor after i saw that the primary care doctor that i was assigned to had bad skin. i felt that he might not take my own skin issues seriously or give me the medicine that i needed for my skin.

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03-08-2012
  36
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I have met a good number of people in the fields of science and technology who clearly had different priorities than 'dressing to impress' but that certainly didn't mean they weren't astoundingly brilliant at their particular jobs. Their focus was on matters of life and death, doing endless hours of research, getting things right, getting things done, rather than wearing the appropriate hair accessory according to someone else's arbitrary tastes.

And someone like a vet might reason that people will judge them mostly by results - because if an animal dies, their client isn't going to be consoled by how impressive their vet's watch is or how expensive their highlights seem. Those things can even start to seem like an insult in such moments, as if the vet is generally more interested in painting her nails than attending to the often 24-7 demands of keeping animals alive.

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03-08-2012
  37
Power to the 99%
 
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My vet tends to look a little bedraggled ... roots showing, etc. Usually looks tired, not much makeup, hair damaged, poor choice of hair color. Not once have I seen her really look great. If I were judging by her appearance alone, she'd be history. But I already know that fashion and dogs don't much go together. I judge a vet practice by the cleanliness, neatness, etc. of the non-public areas, which I get a tour of immediately. Also how they treat my dogs and me, and just like a human doctor, how open they are to my being part of any decision making process. Because I used to foster dogs for a breed rescue, I've been to many different vets, and I can't remember a single one I'd give a gold star for appearance.

I've been going to this vet for years, and I know she's good. When my dog needed to be put to sleep, she made a house call on a Saturday, which was very important to me. She found a parasite in one of my dogs that the rescue's vets failed to identify and treat. Etc. ...

Maybe working in high tech my entire career has trained me not to judge people by appearance At work, it's not unusual for the most attractive, well-groomed people to be among the least effective and competent.

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04-08-2012
  38
Noblesse oblige
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucy92 View Post
i wouldnt trust any of my peers that have bad taste in music (or no taste in music) or bad taste in art.

so why should bad taste in fashion be any different?
Nobody can be an expert in all fields - maybe they have a deep insight in other topics.

Fashion is fun, and surely it can be used to express yourself, but some people simply don't find it interesting. It doesn't mean they are not trustworthy - unless you ask them to buy clothes for you.

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04-08-2012
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I must admit I do the same, judging people by their appearance. Not saying I'm not ready to have them prove me wrong, but when I go to the dentist and he has crooked and neglected teeth (that has happened to me before!) I will certainly wonder how he can have the capacity to decide over my teeth. If he doesn't seem like his own appearance is important enough to invest a minimum of time into it, why would I believe he wants the best of results for his clients?
Same goes for when I'm in a boutique and a sales assistant is wearing ill-fitting or mismatched clothes. I'm not going to let anyone give me styling advice when they themselves don't know how to put together a nice outfit and choose clothes for themselves that are actually flattering on them. Chances are I will assume they are only after my money and don't actually want to advise me.

Does that mean I couldn't be friends with those people? Of course not, I'm not judging their character by their fashion sense, but I do think it is in some cases justified to make judgments based on physical aspects when it comes to deciding whether or not you trust them to be the best in what they do. Especially with people who work at hospitals or restaurants there is the hygiene coming in as a factor, too. If someone reeks or has greasy hair I wouldn't trust them to meet all the regulations concerning cleanliness and such.

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04-08-2012
  40
Noblesse oblige
 
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Being clean and being fashionable are two different things imo. Of course it gives a bad impression if you are dirty and smell badly.

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04-08-2012
  41
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Yeah, the only way an impression interferes for me is when there's a lack of hygiene. Even then, I remember there was this man in an old job that obviously showered like 3-4 a week (outrageous in my book) and would wear the same clothes in a way that would make you wonder if he ever got home.. but he was wonderful, one of those rare politicians that are almost visionaires in many ways, and the moment people would see him, they'd speak so timidly to him even if they weren't sure of who he was.. he definitely had a way of impressing and accidentally intimidating that was more about the way he carried himself.

I love street food anyway, so I feel like no matter what I say, I'll just sound like a hypocrite.

One thing I believe in is that most people do express themselves through clothes, even as a way of fitting in or to showcase creativity, to not conform, to conform.. and this is regardless of their place in society.. it's an expression that's actually quite democratic, you see the same wishes of being a part of something in someone wealthy and in someone that eats every few days, except the way someone wealthy will dress tends to impress more easily a majority (those who are as wealthy or those who aspire to be as wealthy) whereas, because I assume no one wants to be poor, the poor man's look is detestable for most, any subculture that's born there (often associated with music and vandalism) has a dress code that is even condemned by society. And that's when impressions come into play.. tied to what we get impressed by, what we aspire to or what we don't want to acknowledge.

This takes me to certain impressions by people in services.. like where I live, people are likely to go back to a restaurant if they were served by someone white-ish and middle/upper-middle class-looking instead of a Chola. Because that's associated with cleanliness and safety. In high school I hung out with a girl that was/looked like a chola for an entire semester and I remember people asking me if I was going to have a meal that day too with my chola friend (sarcastically). She didn't talk to anyone but no one talked to her either, and because I hated everyone at that point, I decided to talk to her and she actually turned out to be quite possibly the only genuinely nice girl I met in high school.. the fact that she had greasy hair, no eyebrows, bad skin, awful English and hideous Spanish and an overall aggressive look had nothing to do with who she actually was.. I think she used to dress like that because she grew up in like the outskirts of Indio, I doubt she even knew how to use a knife for carrots.

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Last edited by MulletProof; 04-08-2012 at 03:16 PM.
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06-08-2012
  42
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... " said Ms. Fales-Hill. "Though I never knew a 16th of the hardships my mother experienced, like many black women, I was raised to use elegance as a pre-emptive strike: Do not give people the opportunity to dismiss you or mistreat you by looking less than your best. That means everywhere, even to the grocery store." ...



Excuse me but as a mexican woman who has lived in the United States that is the most oppressive thing I've heard in a long time. "Oh dear daughter, since you're black you must know that people are going to judge you for your skin color immediately before they get to know you so spare them the horrible sight of you in effortless clothing by always being tied down to your wardrobe and make up products."

Because people shouldn't learn not to dismiss or mistreat you for being black, but instead you should wear your best Chanel everywhere to not give them the opportunity to do so?

I love fashion. I take very much pleasure in collecting amazing pieces by my favorite designers and looking good. I am also majoring in architecture. My mother has a PHD in Computer Science. Sometimes I'm in finals and haven't slept in 40 hours so excuse my sweats but I'm trying to turn something in. When my mother was finishing her thesis as a mexican woman living in the USA I'm sure she attended my school meetings without concealer on numerous times. I adore fashion but as a minority, and a feminist intellectual woman raised by another feminist intellectual woman, if someone is stupid enough to judge me because I'm not always dressed in couture that is society's problem and the solution isn't me never being spotted out of couture.

And it certainly isn't teaching my daughter never to be either.

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09-08-2012
  43
scenester
 
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@karina_zb: I understand some of what you say but not everything. I understand that dress shouldn't be the main reason to judge but that doesn't mean I should neglect how professional I look. My mother too had a PhD and she always look impeccable. She didn't dress with couture but she dress professional. How will I even believe you are a PhD when you show up to the office in sweats? Professional dressing is different from every day dressing. As a professional we all know better than show up in sweats.

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11-08-2012
  44
scenester
 
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Yes we totally should! Why?

Because every day is a fashion show and the world is your runway. So dress your best and walk with confidence. It shows you know how to take care of yourself, and people will respect you for that.

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11-08-2012
  45
front row
 
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i like to dress up just b/c i want to...it's like a hobby to me. but i don't like some people stare at me head to toe and with some kind of look on their face....

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