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21-09-2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fashionista-ta View Post
What I find a bit hard to fathom is why the followers don't find it impossible to stomach the imitation.


Now The Row was never meant to be about originality ... OK, so I can understand that. They got into the business to create the perfect T. What's everyone else's excuse?


I don't think this is just about commercial concerns--otherwise there would be some stunning originality on each runway, along with the imitative stuff.


Do the copyists just not have it in them?
They gotta keep the lights on, pay bills and eat. They see the crazy success happening at Celine and want that for themselves. Maybe the financial success helps numb it away because few have the balls to risk commercial failure in the name of expression. Or maybe they simply can't because it's not their money that's making anything possible.

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22-09-2015
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^^^ That’s definitely one aspect of it. Another is yes, fashionista-ta-- I think it’s as simple as some just don’t have it in them to do anything that’s their own.

That, and the capacity to interpret influences can be very different for everyone. Some can take an influence and reinterpret it in totally new ways— even (high fashion) world-building in their hands— people like Dries, Miuccia, Gaultier, McQueen, Rei, Galiano are masters at that. While others like Jeremy Scott, Prabal, Altuzarra, Philipp Plein, Saab can only copy what they see around them, as is. But all can claim they love love love high fashion and can’t imagine doing anything else. There are all these different levels of design vision and I feel they all have a place in the industry since consumers’ taste varies as much as there are designers.

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22-09-2015
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^ Agree about Dries. I thought his take on grunge was masterful. He can take anything and make it his own. He's the Tilda Swinton of fashion designers

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23-09-2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phuel View Post
^^^ That’s definitely one aspect of it. Another is yes, fashionista-ta-- I think it’s as simple as some just don’t have it in them to do anything that’s their own.

That, and the capacity to interpret influences can be very different for everyone. Some can take an influence and reinterpret it in totally new ways— even (high fashion) world-building in their hands— people like Dries, Miuccia, Gaultier, McQueen, Rei, Galiano are masters at that. While others like Jeremy Scott, Prabal, Altuzarra, Philipp Plein, Saab can only copy what they see around them, as is. But all can claim they love love love high fashion and can’t imagine doing anything else. There are all these different levels of design vision and I feel they all have a place in the industry since consumers’ taste varies as much as there are designers.
I also think the need to be a star designer and to have your own brand has overtaken many recent (and not so recent) fashion graduates. We're seeing, for example, how overcrowded the NY show calendar has gotten, including a lot of presentation by smaller brands that a) don't have proper funding for an actual show and b) don't really add anything to the fashion 'conversation' at large.

A lot of outlets have been saying that perhaps not everyone is meant to be a designer, i.e. to have their own brand. Some people would do just fine being an assistant or playing some other background role.

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Last edited by arlekindearrabal; 23-09-2015 at 02:20 AM.
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23-09-2015
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Isn't it interesting that Gucci's new designer has been an assistant for so long, and is now generally viewed as having moved the conversation significantly forward?

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23-09-2015
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^^^ I like Alessandro. However, he’s not doing anything really new— just repackaging a look, a style that’s already been around, and some may even say tired. But he’s doing it in a very precise, and within the context of the Gucci label and its history, along with the right timing, he is offering something… refreshing.

Phoebe was Stella’s assistant, and look at her now… Whereas another assistant, Kris Van Assche— should have remained an assistant, as far as I’m concerned.

Imagine if there was some Harry Potter talking hat at fashion schools that would give: “You’ll be a fashion leader one day” and “You…? You’ll be assisting Betsey Johnson and that’s it…” May as well just off yourself right there.

It’s understandable that everyone aspires to be big- even if they may be extremely limited in the talent department. But, with strong, aggressive PR and a wealthy backer, even the lesser talents have proven to be able to raise to the top. But then again, so does sh*t.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fashionista-ta View Post
^ Agree about Dries. I thought his take on grunge was masterful. He can take anything and make it his own. He's the Tilda Swinton of fashion designers
No one is ever comparable to Tilda LOL

I client was kind enough to invite to a TIFF insider event once and we met her. I don’t care for movie stars, but meeting her— I felt like Edmund meeting the White Witch LOL She’s so surreal and otherworldly even in real life. Besides Tilda, Ewan McGregor would be the only other star I would be eager to meet.

Anyway, so many lesser designers can get away with being profitable at being copycats because most consumers of designer fashion aren’t— or just don’t care enough about high fashion like members here to be aware that Prabal copied Dries’ designs, or Jeremy’s Moschino just duplicates Franco’s original designs from 1992 and charges 2015 prices for them.

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23-09-2015
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I agree that it's not new what he's doing at Gucci ... but what I do like about him is he has taste and a very particular perspective that is proving influential. His own habit of wearing a mixture of antique and contemporary rings on almost every finger for example ... I'm almost tempted to start wearing more rings myself.


The Tilda comparison isn't perfect of course ... their personal style has nothing in common. But they are both exquisite under-the-radar talents ...


A sorting hat for fashion would be hilarious, but that stuff IMO is in no way predictable for a variety of reasons.

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Last edited by fashionista-ta; 23-09-2015 at 03:51 PM.
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23-09-2015
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^^^ Sorting Hat! OMG— you know its correct name LOL

I have nothing against Frida’s Gucci— but it was all so unmemorable to me. Alessandro right off the starting line, seemed to know precisely the story he wants to tell; it’s not an original, new and fresh story, but I am really attracted to how directional it is and how committed he seems to be t it.

And yes-- the rings... little details that reveal that this "look" for the label is very much a part of who he is. I just hope he can evolve the aesthetic from collection to collection— and that he’s given the time to do so.

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23-09-2015
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Come on, of course I know I do think it would probably be possible for a fashion sorting hat to separate the leaders from the followers at fashion school.


I do think there is some originality, newness, and freshness to what he's presenting though. Hard to imagine given the splash he's made (including with buyers) that he won't be given a completely fair chance.

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25-09-2015
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^^^ If you read the Sarah Bower review, the little details that are almost artisanal, really makes me appreciate Alessandro. So yes I'll agree, he is doing something very new in the current high fashion climate— as new as afforded to someone by a corporation.

You know, some people have it in them from a very early age and they just need the opportunity, while others need to develop their talent, skills, vision. I don’t know which one of those options apply to Alessandro as he’s in his 40s now when given the chance— same with Phoebe and her influence. I think Marc Jacobs is someone that took a very long time for me to finally be attracted to his designs. I hated his Perry Ellis days, and his Vuitton days are alright at best to me. With his own label, it was always love it or leave it from collection to collection. And his latest collection is one I’m very much attracted to. And that’s over 25 years into a designing career!

Are most designers given that privilege to hone their skills…? Should they even be given that long? It doesn’t matter what I think of course, but if I were the Sorting Hat LOL… Marc would be relegated to Betsey’s assistant at best-- and that's more than generous, on first impression 25 years ago.

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25-09-2015
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You are not an all-knowing sorting hat, however


The Perry Ellis thing at least showed that Marc is willing to take a risk. I find Marc hit or miss ... some collections I have really loved, others seem totally phoned in. Is it me? Is it him?? But he definitely has something, and I would definitely rate him above Betsey's assistant But he's not at the very top of the game.

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28-09-2015
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^^^ If only! Who would’ve guessed that a Harry Potter reference would have made it into this conversation LOL

People like Nicolas, Alber, Dries and Phoebe— whom I think have such a strongly defined asethetic at this point in their career, and have always kept it very much grounded as well, is the reason why they are such influences. It’s very easy to just keep up with what everyone is doing and carve out a career as a glorified dressmaker masquerading as a high fashion designer if thee’s enough money supporting you. And it’s also easy to design outlandish, silly props and costumes for the body without a thought to how people will look in it in real life-- and convince the industry you’re bucking the conventions. But it takes thought and dedication to design with the purpose of flattering the human body in a fresh, new way— all sizes, not just a 5’ 11”, size 2 woman or a 6’2” man built like a professional dancer.

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30-09-2015
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I think that the "Celine syndrome" started at a key point in the history of fashion. Remember what fashion was about before 2009: the 90's saw the rise of more experimental fashion while the forces of fashion from the 80's started to disappear (Alaia, Mugler, Montana). If you think about the middle to late 90's, the most influencial designers were Tom Ford, Miuccia Prada & Helmut Lang. They all defined the aesthetic of the era.

From the early to mid 00's, the era was totally dominated by the sexy aura of Tom Ford. From Miuccia to Lang, from Lagerfeld to Lanvin, everybody was doing his version of sexy. He gave something fresh to the industry and helped his peers. What was the greatest thing? Those designers were talented and confident enough to just capture the mood of the time without copying each others.

When he left, Nicolas Ghesquiere became really this force of fashion because he has created this cult around Balenciaga. For me, Balenciaga was the ultimate fashion house. Miuccia is influencial yes but no one has been more influencial than Nicolas Ghesquiere.
But yet, Nicolas Ghesquiere was very creative but he didn't established an "aesthetic".

IMO, the mid 00's to 2009 were the "glamour" era: the rise of the redcarpet dressing, excessive runway shows, big stores, Vogue Paris and VOgue Italia are the most influencial magazines. It was a time when people craved for luxury and excess: Balmain, Dolce & Gabbana, the return of Donatella, the Dior madness, the Chanel OTT runway shows, Chanel's Resorts collections.

Before Phoebe Philo, Stefano Pilati was really the first one to go for this return to modesty and minimalism with his FW2007 but it was without conviction.
I remember, her first ever collection was critisized for looking too much like YSL by Pilati but she had a vision and suddenly, seeing real, simple and well constructed clothes on a runway seemed possible.
She redefined the notion of luxury by adopting the Margiela method at hermes: shapes, materials,simplicity.

Fashion needed that. The fact that she was intelligent enough to move from that aesthetic to something more abstract influenced a lot of designers.
The thing is that, if you're looking at her collections, you will see some glimpses of Ghesquiere, Elbaz, Ford, Lang, Lagerfeld, Prada, CDG...etc.

I feel like we will always need a strong designer to respond to the excess of fashion. Like the ones before her, her fashion will always be around and slightly influencial but now, i feel like Hedi Slimane is the biggest influence now.
Not in terms of design but in terms of the approach of fashion.

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01-10-2015
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Yes, Slimane is in little danger of influencing design ...


To me, Nicolas had a clear futuristic, fembot aesthetic at Balenciaga.

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27-06-2016
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Mod Note:

Thread Moved from Fashion In Depth.

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