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02-07-2012
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I believe it has been established so far that 1] 50% of the folks here don't know much about Jil Sander and her brand philosophy and 2] the argument "what is couture" is still argued to death in every single HC thread and at this point, it's kind of redundant.

It is obvious that Simons is following a similar path as when he first started designing for Jil Sander. His first JS presentation was very much "Jil", very close to her own minimal aesthetic and as time progressed, he was injecting more and more of his personal ideals into the house up until his last collection for the brand, which everyone seems to remember so fondly. That last collection though was not so much Jil, it was all Raf so people commenting on the "Jil Sander-ness" of the clothes, well, it's too simplistic of an argument to me.

This collection is certainly not a flamboyant one but knowing Raf's subversive and obscure line of work, I wasn't expecting kitschy theatrics anyway. What we witnessed here is a very smooth transition. I do have high expectations for the future but waiting for him to "revive" the brand with just one showing, within only 3 months, would be silly imo.

PS. Gaytten, from a technical point of view, is a skiller designer but if I were to describe his contribution to the brand so far, I'd say he was mostly paying tribute to Galliano, not Dior.


PS2. Not too fond of the weird heels but those silhouettes are doing things to me.


Last edited by Morphe; 02-07-2012 at 04:11 PM.
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02-07-2012
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...cont



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02-07-2012
  213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MulletProof View Post
Wish I'd have the time to read the whole thread and read more criticism because I jumped straight to the HQs + details of the collection and anything that's in my head right now is adulation. I feel like someone has finally packed up all the notions of haute couture and brought them to present time, the tailored suits combined with all saccharine elements has not been paired with such precision and.. beauty since.. ever. I cannot remember a single designer that ventured into this 'princess gown' territory and didn't overdo it or reduced a woman to a window display on legs, or a designer that did fantastic suits from beginning to end (Yohji Yamamoto 2003) leaving little room for elements that are almost scary for all the clichés that surrounds them. Even the furry dresses here are so perfectly made that it's hard to think of a woman wearing them and getting overpowered by them and/or not looking incredible.

This seems like a follow-up to what Christian Dior was doing back in the day.. I think he'd be pleased, cause all the experiments are still happening in details, discreetly just like his work, and they're very likely evolve in the coming seasons.

I could not agree more with this. I just opened onto the pictures and it was....perfection. The tailoring, the detail, the precision but with some foresight. Things don't have to be an elaborate embroidered taffeta explosion to be amazing, and I just feel like Raf captured the true spirit of the house with the collection. It's so sharp - I can't wait to see what he does with RTW.

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02-07-2012
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Just as ugly up close...

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02-07-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morphe View Post
Not too fond of the weird heels but those silhouettes are doing things to me.
Those weird heels are a reinterpretation of a pair Vivier did for Dior in 1952.

Fashion is becoming more and more unprofessional... People praise everything. It's truly disheartening.

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02-07-2012
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Is unsettling to see the attendees looking bored!

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02-07-2012
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Wow... This doesn't seem couture at all! Nor even Dior! I'm kinda disappointed, I had high hopes for Raf!

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02-07-2012
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I feel silly, getting excited over nothing, I knew Raf Simons was not John Galliano but this? There are nice pieces that I would have fallen in love with had I seen it in, oh idon't know, a resort collection or in boutique but for Haute Couture? I would have thought Raf Simons will continue the tradition of fantasy and dream that is dior couture


Last edited by pinkpooding; 02-07-2012 at 04:52 PM.
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02-07-2012
  219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crying Diamonds View Post
Seeing the HQs.. woah, there is a mind-blowing amount of work gone into some of these pieces, and you can really appreciate them in these pictures.. such absolutely undistated beauty.
These silk velvet circles that split into halves either side of a box pleat in chiffon..
This incredible interally-structured dress in mink and Persian lamb..
What looks like layers of fabric laser-cut into grids and layered upon each other to create another fabric, in several of the pieces like this.
And god only knows how this is embellished, but to me it looks as if chiffon petals engulf the dress.
Absolutely! I disagree with the post that states the collection is 'just as ugly close up.' In fact, the close up shots demonstrate how beautifully detailed each piece is. The fabrics are incredible and so much work has gone into the embroidery.

To me personally, the quality of the materials is a huge part of Haute Couture. The same amount of craftsmanship and detail has gone into these fabrics as is necessary for a Couture collection. The difference is that they fabrics have been used to incorporate both classic Dior silhouettes and Simons' more modern aesthetic.

Of course, this isn't the perfect collection - far from it. As Menkes said, it's a pleasant taster for what's to come. The comments in this thread have been very interesting to read.

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02-07-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkpooding View Post
I feel silly, getting excited over nothing, I knew Raf Simons was not John Galliano but this? There are nice pieces that I would have fallen in love with had I seen it in, oh idon't know, a resort collection or in boutique but for Haute Couture? I would have thought Raf Simons will continue the tradition of fantasy and dream that is dior couture
The issue shouldn't be that he didn't continue the big spectacles of the past and opted for more "wearable" clothes. The issue is that he didn't do it an relevant way. I was anticipating Raf designing into a proper wardobe, banishing the stage costumes Galliano had been making, and trying to make couture a relevant and vital thing. But he didn't manage it well, it's not convincing.

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02-07-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JuiceMajor View Post
Is unsettling to see the attendees looking bored!
It's poker face to hide their dissapointment.

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02-07-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutterlein View Post
The issue shouldn't be that he didn't continue the big spectacles of the past and opted for more "wearable" clothes. The issue is that he didn't do it an relevant way. I was anticipating Raf designing into a proper wardobe, banishing the stage costumes Galliano had been making, and trying to make couture a relevant and vital thing. But he didn't manage it well, it's not convincing.
I completely agree with you, I have been following Raf Simons designs at Jil Sander so I knew what he was like, and I wasn't expecting him to abandon his aesthetic to follow Galliano's extreme styles, but I was expecting some new interesting ideas, new take on Dior. I think some of the looks are just too eaxactly like vintage dior, and some that I did think were intereting, eg first two Bar suit were too quiet,,,i am sure he will find his foot in Dior, I remember Riccardo Tisci, the Valentino duo and many other designers that took over a house having to go through a period of criticism and adjustments but since Dior drama has been going on for quite a while, I think I was expecting completely resolved collection now that everything is settled,,,


Last edited by pinkpooding; 02-07-2012 at 05:22 PM.
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02-07-2012
  223
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jil sander? do we even know what jil sander is about. i don't understand that association. perhaps the last collection he did but jil sander but as far as its essence. no way! and i agree,i'm so bored with the HC debate....is it or isn't it. frankly,just because something is tailored doesn't negate its quality as HC.

personally i feel given the limited amount of time he had to prepare a proper HC collection,with all its painstaking,meticulous workmanship,this is absolutely sublime to me. it's classic dior with a twist. it's nice to see a reflection of the master and the skill level raf can employ compared with his usual unorthodox approach. the guy has immense range,imo. it's also quite lovely to see the focus on the work for a change as opposed to the spectacle that HC has seemingly become more known for,these days....particularly from its own predecessor.


Last edited by Scott; 02-07-2012 at 05:29 PM.
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02-07-2012
  224
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There is nothing sublime about this, I like raf's work but come on he is soo hyped by the fashion media, if anyone else had done this collection it would have been panned for what it really is dull and boring. These clothes are fine for RTW at J Crew but Haute Couture, gimme a f****g break!

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02-07-2012
  225
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^excusee....but i need no one in the media to dictate to me about raf's talents. i have been following his work since his debut in the mid-90's and i've always admired his work. and you can do well to lose the snark in your response,please. this is a fashion collection not a war.

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