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06-10-2005
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love it haruki.


when rei responded by saying it wasn't about britishness, i think she wanted to stress it wasn't solely about britian's empire (it would have been instantly simplified if she had admitted that), but it was used as a symbol or a trigger for corrupt systems that people put a lot of faith in. it's not a cynical viewpoint, on the contrary, it's a very empowered and a realistic perspective. in a way this could be called her Diposable Collection, because of it's crowns, the symbols of the british empire... the union jack and the structured jackets buried by these yielding 'natural' (as ngth put it )tartan wraps. she remains consistent because the exploration of the fleeting nature of things is the centerpiece of this collection.

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06-10-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travolta
love it haruki.


when rei responded by saying it wasn't about britishness, i think she wanted to stress it wasn't solely about britian's empire (it would have been instantly simplified if she had admitted that), but it was used as a symbol or a trigger for corrupt systems that people put a lot of faith in. it's not a cynical viewpoint, on the contrary, it's a very empowered and a realistic perspective. in a way this could be called her Diposable Collection, because of it's crowns, the symbols of the british empire... the union jack and the structured jackets buried by these yielding 'natural' (as ngth put it )tartan wraps. she remains consistent because the exploration of the fleeting nature of things is the centerpiece of this collection.
isn't it cool how a few pictures of clothes allow you to make lofty, contrived, completely arbitrary statements?!

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06-10-2005
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i disagree that it's contrived and completely arbitrary. although, of course, you are welcome to think that.

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06-10-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faust
isn't it cool how a few pictures of clothes allow you to make lofty, contrived, completely arbitrary statements?!
It's no more or less arbitrary than making sweeping buying/styling/publishing decisions that will affect thousands of customers (and the buying habits of millions who look to style icons among those thousands for their cues on what to wear) on the basis of seeing a heaping double handful of clothes on the runway for a few brief minutes.

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06-10-2005
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i honestly don't see how one cannot look at this be thinking she didn't intend us to see it in an analytical, metaphorical way... the staging, the 'avant-gardiness' is milking our capacity to be the over-intellectualized creatures that we are. it's like saying that you would go to see a play and take the entire thing at face value. what's the point?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Baron
It's no more or less arbitrary than making sweeping buying/styling/publishing decisions that will affect thousands of customers (and the buying habits of millions who look to style icons among those thousands for their cues on what to wear) on the basis of seeing a heaping double handful of clothes on the runway for a few brief minutes.
Actually, I think those decisions are made in the showrooms where one is allowed to browse a much bigger selection and examine the clothes closely, and where one is more concerned with the garment's look, quality, construction, details instead of what philosophical contemplations were gong through a designers head (if any), are they not?

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06-10-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travolta
i honestly don't see how one cannot look at this be thinking she didn't intend us to see it in an analytical, metaphorical way... the staging, the 'avant-gardiness' is milking our capacity to be the over-intellectualized creatures that we are. it's like saying that you would go to see a play and take the entire thing at face value. what's the point?
Only a play will give you more direction to contemplate, understand, and therefore objectively critique, which a handful of pictures of clothes won't.

But, hey, a bad artist can always hide behind "the interpretation" since basically there is no basis for cricisim because there is lack of communication and expression.

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understand your point of view, but i also think rei's strength is her ability to translate through pictures. she has a large vision, and it would be in her best interest to be as effective as possible, meaning you wouldn't NEED to be at the show to start to understand and mull over her collection. remember rei was never solely about the clothes as other designers are... her advertisements, her guerilla stores are all messages, and her clothing presentations are equally striking.

edit: to clarify, i meant rei uses pictures or visual imagery/ symbolism etc. very effectively.

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Last edited by travolta; 06-10-2005 at 01:55 PM.
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06-10-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travolta
understand your point of view, but i also think rei's strength is her ability to translate through pictures. she has a large vision, and it would be in her best interest to be as effective as possible, meaning you wouldn't NEED to be at the show to start to understand and mull over her collection. remember rei was never solely about the clothes as other designers are... her advertisements, her guerilla stores are all messages, and her clothing presentations are equally striking.
may be. but i can't help but feel this air of superiority that smacks of the whole artist-as-a-pouser thing - even her advertisements - while i get some, like ghetto girls modeling her perfumes, but then there'll be others, especially for CDG Shirt line that look completely arbitrary and represent nothing. So the question is, is she pulling our leg, does she simply have too much money to spend on something that does not communicate at all, or what? I don't know, her collections that I like best (like of any other designer) is where the clothes take the front seat. The image is fine and dandy, only it should go behind the clothes, not in front of them...


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06-10-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faust
Actually, I think those decisions are made in the showrooms where one is allowed to browse a much bigger selection and examine the clothes closely, and where one is more concerned with the garment's look, quality, construction, details instead of what philosophical contemplations were gong through a designers head (if any), are they not?
True, but one doesn't go to every single showroom. The decisions of which collections to look at more closely are made on little more than the same limited evidence we have here.
Anyway, I was just playing devil's advocate to have a bit of fun.

I'm with travolta, though: Rei presents her work in a way that invites intellectual response. Not every collection provokes this kind of discussion, and there's a reason for that.

It's like Andy Warhol's Brillo box in a museum versus one on a shelf at the supermarket: how something is displayed can have a controlling influence on how it is received.

Of course, that doesn't mean that we don't sometimes overdo it with the intellectualizations, and mea most definitely culpa on that one.

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well, i do agree that in a way she is full of bullsh*t. as much as i adore the woman. i was having a conversation just last night with a friend who is blissfully out of touch with the world of fashion, and i was telling him about comme des garcons. his reaction was: how can she be avant-garde if she is a wealthy woman desiging clothing for wealthy people? what is truely innovative about that? i think of avant-garde and i think of people at the end of their rope innovating out of necessity not out of the amusement of other people, esp. the elite.

you know what i had to agree with him. but, i still can't really knock her, because i think rei has successfully breached the system and in a way, yes, we are all her pawns, and she's reached a level of responsiblity. humor me while i delve into another over-intellectualized musing ... i think maybe she understands she is worshipped by the fashion elite and she really could throw out something completely pretentious and many would not know the better. i guess she has reached rock star status (rolling stones references anyone?) and now she's playing around with the concept of her as an icon?
anyways, i guess it's her duty now to keep her followers, and those in 'the know' on their toes, and i guess, in a way, imho, that sums up her contribution.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Baron
True, but one doesn't go to every single showroom. The decisions of which collections to look at more closely are made on little more than the same limited evidence we have here.
Anyway, I was just playing devil's advocate to have a bit of fun.

I'm with travolta, though: Rei presents her work in a way that invites intellectual response. Not every collection provokes this kind of discussion, and there's a reason for that.

It's like Andy Warhol's Brillo box in a museum versus one on a shelf at the supermarket: how something is displayed can have a controlling influence on how it is received.

Of course, that doesn't mean that we don't sometimes overdo it with the intellectualizations, and mea most definitely culpa on that one.
It's no problem, it is fun in a way :p.

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*anyways, there is something really thrilling about being an uber-nerd, haha. it's nice to know there are fellow fashion-nerds you can count on to duel with.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by travolta
humor me while i delve into another over-intellectualized musing ... i think maybe she understands she is worshipped by the fashion elite and she really could throw out something completely pretentious and many would not know the better. i guess she has reached rock star status (rolling stones references anyone?) and now she's playing around with the concept of her as an icon?
Actually I like that one

You see, I guess this is part of my respect for the Belgians, and especially for Ann and Dries. They just put the clothes on the runway, and that's IT. I mean, that's what they do, that's their art, that's their craft, that's what they want to excel at.

Maybe I put too much emphasis on objectivity

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06-10-2005
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Originally Posted by Johnny
"existencillism"!? Yabadabadoo! Of all your recent elaborate puns, that has to be the most, em..... elaborate
Why thank you. I'll give the trained monkeys a pay rise...

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