[The Baron]

Quote:

Originally Posted by faust You see, I guess this is part of my respect for the Belgians, and especially for Ann and Dries. They just put the clothes on the runway, and that's IT. I mean, that's what they do, that's their art, that's their craft, that's what they want to excel at.

Take this with a grain of salt, since it trades on cultural stereotypes, but some of this difference between the Japanese and the Belgians may be cultural.

Japanese culture has a strong emphasis on context, subtlety, and layers of meaning, whereas the Belgians (and Western Europe in general) have a more direct experience of "meaning" in which things simply are what they are. Or, as Keats put it:

'Beauty is truth, truth beauty,—that is all
Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.'

This is all admittedly a gross oversimplification on my part, but my point is: one can't blame the Japanese for being Japanese.

[Tinuviel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny "existencillism"!? Yabadabadoo!

ouch my brain hurts taking all that in. still.. such interesting views.

[peacelover142002]

the idea is cute but i don't like her shapes. way too bulky. the union jack pattern reminds me of the spice girls

[Johnny]

Quote:

Originally Posted by peacelover142002 the union jack pattern reminds me of the spice girls

Yes! Now that's not a good thing is it .... Empire Schmempire...more like zig-a-zig-ah!!

[nr9dream]

Travolta, I agree w/ you in post #143 but not really in your other views…if I understand them correctly

Side note: I can’t wait to read your interpretations on Hussein Chalyan as he indeed is beyond post-modern & v. political in his work (and v. successfully so imo) To assume that Rei designs from this perspective is imho a mistake & clouds your vision about what the collections are truly about -> i.e., experimentation to create a new visual dialogue (of course these images will resonate deeper than just 'what you see' but that is a different thread imo…)

V. interesting none the less

[travolta]

thanks i very much enjoy your posts too

just curious, though, about what you mean by visual dialogue? i would think it was be necessary for her to put her work in the context of the current climate, being that she's regarded as a revolutionary or avant-garde?

just wondering...

[electricringo]

I don't like this collection, and that's very unusual considering I'm a huge fan of Rei...
Everyone is right about the Spice Girls ressemblance...

[nr9dream]

Quote:

Originally Posted by travolta just curious, though, about what you mean by visual dialogue? i would think it was be necessary for her to put her work in the context of the current climate, being that she's regarded as a revolutionary or avant-garde? just wondering...

I guess I mean a new visual language / or her vocabulary as a designer- meaning ->both the technique and the use of symbolic imagery (as you point out above) Here we even refer to the 'language of shape' in re. to design--but that sounds v. wrong in English somehow

Anyway, yes I v. much believe she reacts to current fashion climate in order to innovate--and that is what I meant w/ the example above about reintroducing color during deconstruction… Likewise, it’s v. interesting how in more recent collections she explores current obsessions w/ themes of fantasy & nostalgia but always showing the twisted and dark side of it...(this all has deeper cultural meaning but imo again, that’s a different discussion…)

I guess this also addresses your point above, about how she can keep integrity in design – because the motivation is not political but artistic –> in experimenting, reacting (intuitively) to current issues & proposing something different, new & visually stimulating…

[softgrey]

travolta...
i just take issue with the idea that one needs to be poor and struggling in order to innovate...

that is just too cynical...
and i would want people who have great ideas to be rewarded for it...
in all ways, including financial...
and does that financial reward suddenly negate the preson's achievements and/or ability to create??!?...
of course not...!!

sorry...
but that is a very 'art school' perspective...
artists do NOT have to be poor in order to be good...
don't be hating...
**money=power...
if anything you have MORE freedom to create if you don't have financial constraints...
imo...

[nqth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by softgrey artists do NOT have to be poor in order to be good... don't be hating... **money=power... if anything you have MORE freedom to create if you don't have financial constraints... imo...

2nd:-)
Innovation is a state of mind, not bank account:-)

[nr9dream]

Pls correct me if I’m wrong but you might be creating a false argument f/Travolta here? As I think the Q. was more how can you be making complex statements about ‘corrupt systems’ & social/political issues when you’re essentially designing fashion and part of that system….where Travolta speculated she might be pulling everyone’s leg and I think she doesn’t have the pretension to want to change the world…just experiment w/visuals in an artful way & innovate within the fashion sphere…

Though one could ask oneself in the greater scheme of things what is the point of it all but then you can just stop discussing really?

[jennifer~]

Imagine I've been speaking through travolta, regarding my thoughts on this one...

[softgrey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by travolta well, i do agree that in a way she is full of bullsh*t. as much as i adore the woman. i was having a conversation just last night with a friend who is blissfully out of touch with the world of fashion, and i was telling him about comme des garcons. his reaction was: how can she be avant-garde if she is a wealthy woman desiging clothing for wealthy people? what is truely innovative about that? i think of avant-garde and i think of people at the end of their rope innovating out of necessity not out of the amusement of other people, esp. the elite. you know what i had to agree with him. but, i still can't really knock her, because i think rei has successfully breached the system and in a way, yes, we are all her pawns, and she's reached a level of responsiblity. humor me while i delve into another over-intellectualized musing ... i think maybe she understands she is worshipped by the fashion elite and she really could throw out something completely pretentious and many would not know the better. i guess she has reached rock star status (rolling stones references anyone?) and now she's playing around with the concept of her as an icon? anyways, i guess it's her duty now to keep her followers, and those in 'the know' on their toes, and i guess, in a way, imho, that sums up her contribution.

nr9...travolta said both of those things in this post of hers...
i simply take exception to the first...
but given some time..travolta may change her perspective...(again)...
as i don't think she has completely formulated one..
and is using this forum to develop one...

....

[travolta]

Quote:

Pls correct me if I’m wrong but you might be creating a false argument f/Travolta here? As I think the Q. was more how can you be making complex statements about ‘corrupt systems’ & social/political issues when you’re essentially designing fashion and part of that system….where Travolta speculated she might be pulling everyone’s leg and I think she doesn’t have the pretension to want to change the world…just experiment w/visuals in an artful way & innovate within the fashion sphere… Though one could ask oneself in the greater scheme of things what is the point of it all but then you can just stop discussing really?

thank you nr9dream for putting it much more succinctly.

i guess you cannot talk about innovation or anything of relevance within an insular environment, esp. fashion, without referring to to the larger world.
also, i didn't literally mean you needed to be poor to innovate -- even my art school educated mind isn't as simplistic as that. i applaud and respect rei for what she does, but i simply want to ask: does she actually innovate? to ask that question you have to think about innovation broadly. rei created a brand around being avant-garde, but does that mean she's too contrived, therefore, contradicting herself as an avant-garde designer? but, because fashion is largely about collective thought, does that mean she is actually considered innovative?

Quote:

nr9...travolta said both of those things in this post of hers... i simply take exception to the first... but given some time..travolta may change her perspective...(again)... as i don't think she has completely formulated one.. and is using this forum to develop one... ....

i think it's a healthy perspective to feel as if you haven't fully formed one. i also think you can intellectualize fashion -- i'm proof of this, because i've certainly learned a lot from this forum.

[softgrey]

maybe travolta...
but it is also healthy to have a point of view......

nothing wrong with asking the questions...
i hope you find your answers...